Speculation: Ryzen 4000 series/Zen 3

[Markfw]

Ah. No idea. I know very few people IRL or online who own 3900Xs.. which is weird considering how great the price point is. I've read meh reports on the XT hitting high boosts for long periods of time but I've also heard the complete opposite.

3 of them in my sig, and a 3950x

 

[Martimus]

3 of them in my sig, and a 3950x

I've got one too, since the system in my signature died earlier this year. It just seemed like the best deal at the time since it was down to ~$420 and money wasn't really an issue. It is a nice system, and it seems to do better in every benchmark than what I found on the reviews for some reason.

I really wanted to wait for Zen 3 but my old system finally died for the 3rd time, and I was tired of figuring out a way to get it to limp along.

 

[Soulkeeper]

The fact that Zen3 is not ddr5 leaves more incentive, for me, to wait.
Also still rocking an x370, so it'd require a new motherboard anyways.

 

[A///]

3 of them in my sig, and a 3950x

I'm going to insult myself here and say you were one of the people whom I counted in that total. I didn't think it would have been appropriate to name drop.

 

[inf64]

Some info.

Ryzen 4000 Detailed: Purported AMD Confidential Documents Outline Zen 3's Inner Workings

A teaser before October 8.

www.tomshardware.com

I do wonder what is the "new information" in this "leak"? No offense, but everything listed in that THG post is known for 1 year+.

 

[IntelUser2000]

The magical 5GHz barrier only comes into play when your underlying architecture requires it to keep competitive....PUN intended.

The alleged no compromise per core clocks and voltage control increase the odds of achieving the magical 5GHz barrier. It'll be nice to play around with, but the end results will be YMMV. I wouldn't get too hung up on the need to hit 5GHz.

Yup. If they need to it can be made to reach 5GHz for milliseconds.

When the FX-9590 reached 5GHz no one cared.

 

[A///]

It's an ego thing.

 

[Thibsie]

I do wonder what is the "new information" in this "leak"? No offense, but everything listed in that THG post is known for 1 year+.

Well, it's Tom's. Useless as usual.

 

[lightmanek]

I'm going to insult myself here and say you were one of the people whom I counted in that total. I didn't think it would have been appropriate to name drop.

Count me in then with 3900XT I even posted few benches here just after launch, but my work takes a lot of my time hence I'm mostly silent Bob, just reading and up-voting posts.

Back to the topic on hand, I'm expecting pricing for new Zen 3 desktop CPU's to be higher per core than launch prices of Zen 2, but I hope I'm wrong. My plan is to replace 3900XT with equivalent 12 core Ryzen 4000 series if 16 core version launches higher than $799.00, otherwise I'm fully investing into top of the line CPU as it will last me at least a year (Threadripper, you know ...)
New CPU + upgrading my Vega 7 to next gen GPU should give me a massive generational jump in performance across wide range of workloads and games, not to mention something new to tweak and play with during long winter nights

 

[A///]

Count me in then with 3900XT I even posted few benches here just after launch, but my work takes a lot of my time hence I'm mostly silent Bob, just reading and up-voting posts.

Back to the topic on hand, I'm expecting pricing for new Zen 3 desktop CPU's to be higher per core than launch prices of Zen 2, but I hope I'm wrong. My plan is to replace 3900XT with equivalent 12 core Ryzen 4000 series if 16 core version launches higher than $799.00, otherwise I'm fully investing into top of the line CPU as it will last me at least a year (Threadripper, you know ...)
New CPU + upgrading my Vega 7 to next gen GPU should give me a massive generational jump in performance across wide range of workloads and games, not to mention something new to tweak and play with during long winter nights

Working from home has been mostly a nightmare for me. I long to be out and about. Maybe one day again.

I'd say you're right on the money. I'd expect price increases this time, and with Zen 4, with Zen 5 prices carrying over Zen 4 prices. I'd say it's worth the extra 5-10 USD/core.

 

[eek2121]

None of the XT reviews reflect that. Unless that's the boost for idling or something. My 3900x won't even hit 4200 MHz in most all-core scenarios where you actually want the chip to do work (it'll do 4175 MHz in CBR20, and around there in Blender), and I don't think the 3900XT boosts any higher than that. Picking up a few hundred extra MHz in applications like that would be good for Zen3. N7+ makes it more than possible.

My 3600XT averages 4.5 GHz during a CB run. I will have to see how my 3900X does.

I've seen people claim they've got 4.4 all core on their 3900X. I've even seen one person claim they got 4.5 all core on less than 1.3. Either they're lying or "won" the lottery. Here's to hoping AMD did something crazy and Igor wasn't blowing smoke anyone's butt.

If you are overclocking, it’s easy to hit high clocks as long as you don’t have a crap motherboard. This isn’t about overclocking, however.

Ah. No idea. I know very few people IRL or online who own 3900Xs.. which is weird considering how great the price point is. I've read meh reports on the XT hitting high boosts for long periods of time but I've also heard the complete opposite.

I own a 3900X. IMO it is the best chip of the series.

 

[A///]

I own a 3900X. IMO it is the best chip of the series.

Good value for productivity and gaming, IMO. I hope the 4900 and 4950 improve a lot in both areas. What cooler did you pair yours with?

 

[DrMrLordX]

The fact that Zen3 is not ddr5 leaves more incentive, for me, to wait.

If the leaks are true, there will be Zen3 with DDR5 named Warhol. Zen4 (Raphael) won't launch until 2022.

My 3600XT averages 4.5 GHz during a CB run. I will have to see how my 3900X does.

RAM is going to be a factor in extrapolating clockspeeds, and scaling isn't a perfect way to extrapolate speeds, but from the looks of it:

Kitguru hit ~4240 MHz MT with stock 3600XT:

AMD Ryzen 5 3600XT CPU Review – 4.6GHz OC! - KitGuru

We have examined the Ryzen 7 3800XT and Ryzen 9 3900XT and now is the turn of the Ryzen 5 3600XT. Bu

www.kitguru.net

PCMag only managed maybe ~4100 MHz:

AMD Ryzen 5 3600XT Review

While AMD's Ryzen 5 3600XT isn't the peak value choice for frame-rate-obsessed 1080p gamers, 4K players and mid-budget content creators will be hard-pressed to find a better-balanced CPU for the price.

www.pcmag.com

Guru3D looks like they got ~4250 MHz:

AMD Ryzen 5 3600XT review

In this review, we'll benchmark that Ryzen 5 3600XT. Yes, not X but XT. AMD has outs a new series XT processors, aimed to bring a bit more bite in single-threaded and medium threaded workloads. ... Performance - CineBench 20

www.guru3d.com

Tom's got ~4320 MHz:

AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT, Ryzen 7 3800XT and Ryzen 5 3600XT Review: Small Gains, Big Price Tag

Ryzen XT underwhelms

www.tomshardware.com

(they used overclocked FlareX so they might have had better timings than the DDR4-3600 CAS/CL16 everyone else was using)

4500 MHz in CBR20 MT would be abnormally high for a stock 3600XT. If AMD can hit that clockspeed using stock cooling with Zen3 in a moderate AVX workload like CBR20, they'll have quite a CPU on their hands.

 

[A///]

I'm not putting much faith in that Warhol leak. Seems dumb to put a mid-cycle processor out on X570 with extension for DDR5. It'll be a price reset like XT, maybe higher, not to mention being a guinea pig for early DDR5.

Genuinely curious what latency will be like on 2 CCD processors like the 4900X and 4950X, or even the rumored 10 core part which may replace the 3800X as the 4800X to go head to head against RKL @ price point.

I'm not sure if we'll see a ThreadRipper this generation. Unless TR Pro becomes the standard. Seems stupid to sell a faster but still gimped processor when DDR5 is around the corner with TR5 and knowing the performance will be very good, even with crappy 'slow' DDR5 @ launch.

This is all assuming Yuri wasn't BS'ing.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Seems dumb to put a mid-cycle processor out on X570 with extension for DDR5.

I'm assuming Warhol, if real, would introduce an entirely new chipset; regardless, it isn't stupid if AMD thinks they'll have no credible competition. Gotta milk that cow for all its worth. Moo.

 

[trexfromouterspace]

I'm not putting much faith in that Warhol leak. Seems dumb to put a mid-cycle processor out on X570 with extension for DDR5. It'll be a price reset like XT, maybe higher, not to mention being a guinea pig for early DDR5.

It would be dumb, but they also did the XT refresh which was an absolute joke.

Realistically, an N6 Zen 3 shrink and bugfix a la Zen+ would be the best option.

 

[eek2121]

Good value for productivity and gaming, IMO. I hope the 4900 and 4950 improve a lot in both areas. What cooler did you pair yours with?

An NZXT 280mm AIO. The machine runs silent except when gaming, where the GPU (1090ti) makes a ton of noise.

 

[eek2121]

It would be dumb, but they also did the XT refresh which was an absolute joke.

Realistically, an N6 Zen 3 shrink and bugfix a la Zen+ would be the best option.

The XT release wasn’t a joke. It was a slightly better binned version of the X CPUs released for the same MSRP. The only negative about the XT chips (besides the fact the prices haven’t fallen yet) is that the upper tiers don’t include an HSF.

EDIT: The price difference between the 3600X and 3600XT is currently $28.23 and the 3600X is out of stock on Amazon.

 

[trexfromouterspace]

The XT release wasn’t a joke. It was a slightly better binned version of the X CPUs released for the same MSRP. The only negative about the XT chips (besides the fact the prices haven’t fallen yet) is that the upper tiers don’t include an HSF.

No, it's a joke. You're talking maybe 100 MHz of uplift, which is basically negligible. Check GN's reviews.

There's no reason to buy a 3600XT when the 3600 already existed. There's no reason to buy a 3800XT when the 3700X exists. The 3900XT is the only one you could maybe make a case for, but there's not much there.

It was a pointless refresh that only served to add more unnecessary product segmentation.

 

[eek2121]

No, it's a joke. You're talking maybe 100 MHz of uplift, which is basically negligible. Check GN's reviews.

There's no reason to buy a 3600XT when the 3600 already existed. There's no reason to buy a 3800XT when the 3700X exists. The 3900XT is the only one you could maybe make a case for, but there's not much there.

It was a pointless refresh that only served to add more unnecessary product segmentation.

Except that the 3600XT has no issues hitting 4.6 GHz and beyond. Also, it is currently the only 6-core Zen 2 CPU that isn’t backordered.

 

[itsmydamnation]

I think a zen3 ddr5 release would be all about getting the platfrom in place and ready for the real launch. Hopefully it would just be mid cycle with zen4 with the same i/o die/chipset coming out at the standard year + a bit interval from initial zen3 release.

 

[jamescox]

The rumor about AMD RDNA 2 GPUs having 128 MB “infinity cache” has me wondering if AMD has made an infinity fabric connected cache chip and if such a chip could be used with Epyc. This might explain the large cache rumors while Zen 3 still seems to be limited to 32 MB L3. It would be much better for it to be on die, but calling it “infinity cache“ makes me wonder if it is a separate chip operating on infinity fabric. I don’t know if it would replace a cpu die in the Epyc package or if it would be added on. If it replaces a cpu die, them perhaps they could have different combinations of cpu die and L4 die.

I would think adding it as an additional chip would require pass through unless they have new IO die with more links. IFOP links take very little die space, so I guess it might be possible to have 8 links, 4 to IO die and 4 to cpu die. That would allow for very short IFOP traces between the chips, but raw latency to memory may go up even if average latency mostly goes down. There might be room, with a little reorganization, for one cache die between the cpu die on each side to act as L4 cache.

Could they make such a chip on Global Foundries 12LP+? Cache is probably still much more dense on 7 nm TSMC variants. Still wondering about what Charlie Demerjian was talking about with the “Celeron“ Xeon article. It might be plausible for AMD to make lower end cpu die for Epyc on GF 12LP+ to help with 7 nm wafer shortages. Epyc processors that only use 4 chips would easily have room for slightly larger die. The higher power consumption would not be much of an issue since the package can support enough power for 64-core devices. They could also make a 7nm device for a higher price where lower power is desired. Such an Epyc processor would probably still compete well with Intel and it would be very cheap to produce. Charlie could have heard about something being produced at GF, but perhaps it is a cache chip and not a cpu die.

Wild speculation, but they need something to compete with Nvidia other than just making a bigger gpu, so it would make sense that they do something outside of the box. On die cache would be much better, but the “infinity cache” name makes me wonder. Such a large on die cache would take a lot of area. a separate cache chip that can be used across multiple products would fit with AMD’s modular and reusable design strategies.

 

[A///]

I'm assuming Warhol, if real, would introduce an entirely new chipset; regardless, it isn't stupid if AMD thinks they'll have no credible competition. Gotta milk that cow for all its worth. Moo.

Mozart or whatever his name on Twitter is seems to think that RKL will be out with a 5.5 SCC, and that Alderlake will follow with some refined designs.

 

[A///]

An NZXT 280mm AIO. The machine runs silent except when gaming, where the GPU (1090ti) makes a ton of noise.

The what? What 1090ti?

 

[A///]

It would be dumb, but they also did the XT refresh which was an absolute joke.

Realistically, an N6 Zen 3 shrink and bugfix a la Zen+ would be the best option.

That's assuming there is a bug to fix. N6 makes some sense, I suppose. Technically, they could offer some of the non-controversial tech on it. USB4, for example.