Question Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

[uzzi38]

Man I have been dying to make this one for a while now.

First rumours for RDNA3 are here so new thread time!

Just going to start off with this one for now: kopite7kimi on Twitter: "@VideoCardz Ah, I mean a simple mcm design with 10240 cores is not enough. Because the lift from RDNA2 to RDNA3 is much bigger than from RDNA1 to RDNA2. We should expect many big improvements in GFX11. 🤔" / Twitter

 

[AtenRa]

Techpowerup has the RX 7700XT using the NAVI33 at 6nm. What the hell ???

NAVI 33 (6nm) has exactly the same specs as NAVI 23 (7nm) used on RX6650XT

That leaves NAVI 32 for the RX7800XT/7800.

AMD Radeon RX 7700 XT Specs

AMD Navi 32, 2544 MHz, 3456 Cores, 216 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 12288 MB GDDR6, 2250 MHz, 192 bit

www.techpowerup.com

That means NAVI32 7800XT will compete against cut down AD104 RTX4070 and cut down NAVI32 RX7800 will compete against AD106 RTX4060/Ti

 

[leoneazzurro]

Clearly an error or a placeholder, full N33 being the 7600XT MOBILE (which can be also called 7700S) is clerly an indication that N33 will NOT be desktop 7700 series.

 

[linkgoron]

Techpowerup has the RX 7700XT using the NAVI33 at 6nm. What the hell ???

NAVI 33 (6nm) has exactly the same specs as NAVI 23 (7nm) used on RX6650XT

That leaves NAVI 32 for the RX7800XT/7800.

AMD Radeon RX 7700 XT Specs

AMD Navi 32, 2544 MHz, 3456 Cores, 216 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 12288 MB GDDR6, 2250 MHz, 192 bit

www.techpowerup.com

That means NAVI32 7800XT will compete against cut down AD104 RTX4070 and cut down NAVI32 RX7800 will compete against AD106 RTX4060/Ti

They also place the 7700XT's relative performance at lower than the 5700xt... It's just a placeholder.

 

[AtenRa]

Clearly an error or a placeholder, full N33 being the 7600XT MOBILE (which can be also called 7700S) is clerly an indication that N33 will NOT be desktop 7700 series.

They also place the 7700XT's relative performance at lower than the 5700xt... It's just a placeholder.

Yea probable a mistake, 7700XT should use a cut down NAVI32.
That means that we may only see 7800XT and 7700XT using the NAVI32 and not non XT versions, something like

NAVI 31 = 7900XTX/7900XT (7900 ??)
NAVI 32 = 7800XT/7700XT
NAVI 33 = 7600XT/7600

 

[AtenRa]

On a 7900XT note, this looks like a good review comparing 7900XT vs 4070Ti vs 3070

 

[Hans Gruber]

Ok friends. So what says all of you about value plays. Eg. 6800xt or 6950xt moving forward? I know the 6950xt is supposed to be about equal to the 7900xt. I think the 7900xt has better power consumption than the 6950xt by a considerable amount.

Nvidia smokes everything AMD has. The 7900xtx is short of the 4090. The AMD stuff this round is good but the performance uplift over RDNA2 is not what AMD promised. So when does the market pricing come in?

80% of the market is completely gone thanks to crypto mining and the collapse.

 

[biostud]

Ok friends. So what says all of you about value plays. Eg. 6800xt or 6950xt moving forward? I know the 6950xt is supposed to be about equal to the 7900xt. I think the 7900xt has better power consumption than the 6950xt by a considerable amount.

Nvidia smokes everything AMD has. The 7900xtx is short of the 4090. The AMD stuff this round is good but the performance uplift over RDNA2 is not what AMD promised. So when does the market pricing come in?

80% of the market is completely gone thanks to crypto mining and the collapse.

If you don't mind losing a little performance, you can cut a considerable amount of power from the 6800xt/6950xt. I lost ~7% performance going from ~280W -> ~200W on my 6800xt.

But depending on resolution and if you don't care too much about raytracing, then the 6800/6800XT are pretty good value atm.

Family fight: AMD Radeon RX 7900 XT is up to 7% faster than RX 6950 XT but costs 28% more - VideoCardz.com

 

[jpiniero]

Either way, price will make or break it. If it'll slot right in 6650XTs current price range

That's $300 or less. That's not happening.

 

[Timorous]

That's $300 or less. That's not happening.

Why not? Laptop N33 drops right into where N23 did so same is probably true for the dGPUs. Giving vendors an options to reuse their 6650XT designs with a new chip and some updated plastic bits saves a lot of R&D AIB end and given N33 is smaller and on a cheaper node than N23 there is also room for AMD to charge less and maintain their margins.

 

[jpiniero]

Why not? Laptop N33 drops right into where N23 did so same is probably true for the dGPUs. Giving vendors an options to reuse their 6650XT designs with a new chip and some updated plastic bits saves a lot of R&D AIB end and given N33 is smaller and on a cheaper node than N23 there is also room for AMD to charge less and maintain their margins.

Can't imagine AMD is happy with the margins at those prices. Dunno if you will see a laptop OEM do this but if AMD is having this much difficulty unloading RDNA 2 maybe you would see a laptop with N23 as it's base (discounted) with N33 as an upsell.

 

[fleshconsumed]

On a 7900XT note, this looks like a good review comparing 7900XT vs 4070Ti vs 3070

Freaking sad. I got 3070FE in January 2021. Two years later I can get 7900XT to almost double my framerate for almost double the price. At this rate I'll just keep my 3070 until it can no longer run games that I play (which sadly could be sooner rather than later due to pitiful 8GB RAM).

 

[KompuKare]

Freaking sad. I got 3070FE in January 2021. Two years later I can get 7900XT to almost double my framerate for almost double the price. At this rate I'll just keep my 3070 until it can no longer run games that I play (which sadly could be sooner rather than later due to pitiful 8GB RAM).

While the pitiful VRAM obviously lowered the BOM and increased the margins of Ampere cards, for Nvidia planned obsolescence must a huge part of their decisions too.
When you have near 90% of the market, you start thinking of creating reasons other than raw performance for users to upgrade.

 

[jpiniero]

While the pitiful VRAM obviously lowered the BOM and increased the margins of Ampere cards, for Nvidia planned obsolescence must a huge part of their decisions too.
When you have near 90% of the market, you start thinking of creating reasons other than raw performance for users to upgrade.

When Ampere launched 2 GB GDDR6X chips didn't exist.

 

[Saylick]

While the pitiful VRAM obviously lowered the BOM and increased the margins of Ampere cards, for Nvidia planned obsolescence must a huge part of their decisions too.
When you have near 90% of the market, you start thinking of creating reasons other than raw performance for users to upgrade.

There's a nugget of truth when Jensen tells the viewers directly, "My [insert 4 year old Nvidia architecture here] friends, it's safe to upgrade now"... Even Nvidia knows they have to try harder and harder with each new generation to get their customers to upgrade, and like you said, raw performance is harder to come by so they have to create new and *exclusive* features, not just to Nvidia but more so to their newest generation, to entice buyers.

 

[MrTeal]

When Ampere launched 2 GB GDDR6X chips didn't exist.

His 3070 doesn't use GDDR6X though, and the 6800 had no problem launching with 16GB on a 256bit bus.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

His 3070 doesn't use GDDR6X though, and the 6800 had no problem launching with 16GB on a 256bit bus.

True, but RTX 3080 used It and had only 10GB Vram. I think this was also a reason not just BOM why Nvidia stayed with only 8GB Vram.

 

[Joe NYC]

Ok friends. So what says all of you about value plays. Eg. 6800xt or 6950xt moving forward? I know the 6950xt is supposed to be about equal to the 7900xt. I think the 7900xt has better power consumption than the 6950xt by a considerable amount.

Nvidia smokes everything AMD has. The 7900xtx is short of the 4090. The AMD stuff this round is good but the performance uplift over RDNA2 is not what AMD promised. So when does the market pricing come in?

80% of the market is completely gone thanks to crypto mining and the collapse.

I think valid performance comparison is $$$ vs. performance. Especially when you are comparing across generations of cards.

I think the 6950 XT at $699 may be the biggest bang for the buck in the mid to high end segment.

 

[biostud]

I think valid performance comparison is $$$ vs. performance. Especially when you are comparing across generations of cards.

I think the 6950 XT at $699 may be the biggest bang for the buck in the mid to high end segment.

I think both the 6800 and 6800XT is better priced @ $499 and $579.

@1440p and 4K it is ~27-32% faster than the 6800 but costs ~40% more.
@1440p and 4K it is ~12-14% faster than the 6800XT but costs ~21% more.

AMD Radeon RX 6950 XT Reference Design Review - Relative Performance | TechPowerUp

 

[igor_kavinski]

Yeah, with the 6950 XT, you need a 1kW PSU to be safe, adding more to the cost.

6800 XT can make do with 850W.

 

[Joe NYC]

I think both the 6800 and 6800XT is better priced @ $499 and $579.

@1440p and 4K it is ~27-32% faster than the 6800 but costs ~40% more.
@1440p and 4K it is ~12-14% faster than the 6800XT but costs ~21% more.

AMD Radeon RX 6950 XT Reference Design Review - Relative Performance | TechPowerUp

That scaling is not linear, I noticed.

But here is a question: what is the one and two incremental steps above 6950 XT and what is the cost?

 

[biostud]

That scaling is not linear, I noticed.

But here is a question: what is the one and two incremental steps above 6950 XT and what is the cost?

4070Ti @1440p and 4K it is ~3-5% faster than the 6950XT but costs ~14% more.
7900XT @1440p and 4K it is ~8-9% faster than the 6950XT but costs ~29% more.

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4070 Ti Review | TechSpot

But then both are a lot stronger in ray-tracing (and to get DLSS from nvidia), so that would be the major selling point to spend more.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Yeah the additional VRAM and better raytracing performance makes spending 29% more on the 7900 XT, palatable.

4070 Ti, if you don't care about VRAM being a bottleneck in future.

Both eat less power than the 6950 XT. But yeah, if you have exactly $699 and a good PSU, a case could be made for the 6950 XT's viability as a decent alternative to the higher priced options.

 

[Panino Manino]

Was seeing the benchmarks for Hogwards and was curious, why is RT so bad on RDNA3? There's barely any improvement here over RDNA2, the minimums can actually be lower.

Hogwarts Legacy Benchmark Test & Performance Analysis Review - VRAM Usage Record

Hogwarts Legacy lets you relive the steps of Harry Potter and is a fantastic adaptation of the books. In our performance review, we're taking a closer look at image quality, differences between the graphical setting presets, VRAM usage, and performance on a selection of modern graphics cards.

www.techpowerup.com

Meanwhile ARC is showing to be a RT champ.
Can it improve with drivers? If not I fear that Second Generation ARC may become a real treat to AMD.

 

[DeathReborn]

Was seeing the benchmarks for Hogwards and was curious, why is RT so bad on RDNA3? There's barely any improvement here over RDNA2, the minimums can actually be lower.

Hogwarts Legacy Benchmark Test & Performance Analysis Review - VRAM Usage Record

Hogwarts Legacy lets you relive the steps of Harry Potter and is a fantastic adaptation of the books. In our performance review, we're taking a closer look at image quality, differences between the graphical setting presets, VRAM usage, and performance on a selection of modern graphics cards.

www.techpowerup.com

Meanwhile ARC is showing to be a RT champ.
Can it improve with drivers? If not I fear that Second Generation ARC may become a real treat to AMD.

I get the feeling that RDNA3 is still not fully accelerating RT, maybe some missing/not active instructions or just plain inability to execute them on their current hardware. Intel has kinda followed Nvidia closer on RT (hardware wise) while AMD is still catching up.

 

[Heartbreaker]

Meanwhile ARC is showing to be a RT champ.
Can it improve with drivers? If not I fear that Second Generation ARC may become a real treat to AMD.

Interesting. Plus you have to figure there is no chance anyone optimized for ARC.