Question Speculation: RDNA3 + CDNA2 Architectures Thread

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uzzi38

uzzi38

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Saylick

Saylick

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Also, doesn't the rumored N31 reference card have only two 8-pin power connectors? That means the TBP is only 375W, no? Is Enermax accounting for AIB offering full N31 versions that have a raised TDP of 420W?
 
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Stuka87

Stuka87

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igor_kavinski said:
I'm sure the top PSU manufacturers get cards for testing and then that information trickles down to their PSU partners.
Click to expand...

This would be really surprising to me. Considering AIB's don't even get functioning chips until about 2 months before they are on shelves. All AMD/nVidia would have to do is tell the PSU maker what the power draw characteristics are (Which clearly did not happen with the 3090).

Its not like there is anything proprietary about consuming a 12V feed. All that matters is if the PSU can handle the load in combination with transients.

I am sure AMD/nVidia do in house testing of various power supplies. There is *NO* reason to send an unreleased card to somebody else. All they do is say "hey, here is data from our power analyzer while using an unreleased product on your PSU, and the data is showing an issue". I know this is what I did when testing other companies power supplies for various products I worked on (not ATX supplies, but at this level form factor doesn't matter).

GodisanAtheist said:
Doubt AMD would say for any actual sku, but they might tell a PSU maker "Hey, our top end is going to pulling 420w :cool: off the 12v rail, please be wary" and then someone within enermax or just some rando then going about assigning product values etc.
Click to expand...

This would make more sense. Especially since it would be weird for AMD to have a 7950 right at launch, since as of late, they are using that nomenclature for refreshes.
 
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DiogoDX

DiogoDX

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jpiniero said:
The 7950 XT is probally the full(ish) N31. The 7900 XT is probally the cut down model.
Click to expand...
For the skyjuice article I think that will be something like this:

7900 - cut down - 320 bits - 20GB vram
7900XT - full chip - 384 bits - 24GB vram
7950XT - full chip + 3D cache (1hi) - 384bits - 24GB vram - Top card maybe limited and AIO water only to cool the stacked cache
 
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Saylick

Saylick

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DiogoDX said:
For the skyjuice article I think that will be something like this:

7900 - cut down - 320 bits - 20GB vram
7900XT - full chip - 384 bits - 24GB vram
7950XT - full chip + 3D cache (1hi) - 384bits - 24GB vram - Top card maybe limited and AIO water only to cool the stacked cache
Click to expand...
According to what I've read on Twitter, seems like the naming has shifted slightly as follows:
  • 7900XT = cut down N31, likely 40-42 WGP w/ 5 MCDs (320-bit bus)
  • 7950XT = full N31, 48 WGP w/ 6 MCDs (384-bit bus)
  • 7950XT3D (?) = 7950XT + V-cache
 
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TESKATLIPOKA

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The problem with RDNA3 is that there are only 3 different chips, Nvidia will have 4-5.
Excluding V-cache It will most likely look like this.
N31: 7900-7950
N32: 7700-7800
N33: 7500-7600
They actually no longer need XT at the end.
 
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TESKATLIPOKA

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biostud said:
Why is that a problem? AMD's chips are supposed to be smaller than nvidia's and both the N31 and N32 can possibly be equipped with vcache and a flexible number of MCD's, to diversify the lineup.
Click to expand...
Because there is nothing weaker than a cutdown N33. Phoenix has only 6WGPs, so there is a big void. They will probably rebrand some RDNA2.
I don't expect big gains by equipping vcache.
Naming is also questionable and too similar to Zen4.
One uncut chip is 7950, the other is 7800, One cutdown chip is 7900 and the other 7700 for example.
At least I hope they won't use XT anymore, because that will be useless.
 
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biostud

biostud

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TESKATLIPOKA said:
Because there is nothing weaker than a cutdown N33. Phoenix has only 6WGPs, so there is a big void. They will probably rebrand some RDNA2.
I don't expect big gains by equipping vcache.
Naming is also questionable and too similar to Zen4.
One uncut chip is 7950, the other is 7800, One cutdown chip is 7900 and the other 7700 for example.
At least I hope they won't use XT anymore, because that will be useless.
Click to expand...

Do we know that at some point they won't launch a N34? Until we know pricing for next gen, do we know it will be a problem?
 
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TESKATLIPOKA

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biostud said:
Do we know that at some point they won't launch a N34? Until we know pricing for next gen, do we know it will be a problem?
Click to expand...
If they later released a N34 with 10WGP for lowend that would be great. A possible problem would be Vram size, unless they go for 128bit. 64bit -> 4GB; 96bit->6GB; 128bit->8GB.

Do you think a RX 7500 will be priced lower than $399?
My guess for prices, It could be even higher.
RX 7500(N33) -> $399
RX 7600(N33) -> $499
RX 7700(N32) -> $699
RX 7800(N32) -> $799
RX 7900(N31) -> $999
RX 7950(N31) -> $1099
RX 7990 + 3dcache(N31) -> $1299
These prices are already way better than what Nvidia set for their cards so far.
RTX 4080 12GB(AD104) -> $899
RTX 4080 16GB(AD103) -> $1199
RTX 4090 24GB(AD102) -> $1599
 
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biostud

biostud

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TESKATLIPOKA said:
If they later released a N34 with 10WGP for lowend that would be great. A possible problem would be Vram size, unless they go for 128bit. 64bit -> 4GB; 96bit->6GB; 128bit->8GB.

Do you think a RX 7500 will be priced lower than $399?
My guess for prices, It could be even higher.
RX 7500(N33) -> $399
RX 7600(N33) -> $499
RX 7700(N32) -> $699
RX 7800(N32) -> $799
RX 7900(N31) -> $999
RX 7950(N31) -> $1099
RX 7990 + 3dcache(N31) -> $1299
These prices are already way better than what Nvidia set for their cards so far.
RTX 4080 12GB(AD104) -> $899
RTX 4080 16GB(AD103) -> $1199
RTX 4090 24GB(AD102) -> $1599
Click to expand...

It will be interesting to see if the N31/N32 segregation will happen with different numbers of MCD as well as active WGP's

Alternatively:

RX 7500(N33) 6GB-> $329
RX 7600(N33) 8GB -> $399
RX 7700(N32) 12GB -> $599
RX 7800(N32) 16GB -> $699
RX 7900(N31) 20GB -> $899
RX 7950(N31) 24GB-> $1099
 
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Timorous

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biostud said:
It will be interesting to see if the N31/N32 segregation will happen with different numbers of MCD as well as active WGP's

Alternatively:

RX 7500(N33) 6GB-> $329
RX 7600(N33) 8GB -> $399
RX 7700(N32) 12GB -> $599
RX 7800(N32) 16GB -> $699
RX 7900(N31) 20GB -> $899
RX 7950(N31) 24GB-> $1099
Click to expand...

That is the stack I see. Pricing seems low for the top end because looking at the 4090 results I can see the 7950 being 10-20% faster if the TBP is 420W and the perf/watt increase is 50%.
 
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Mopetar

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They'll segment based on bus size. NVidia already does it with their monolithic dies and AMD would probably like to be able to use chiplets with defects preventing them from connecting to the full number of MCDs.
 
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Saylick

Saylick

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TESKATLIPOKA said:
If they later released a N34 with 10WGP for lowend that would be great. A possible problem would be Vram size, unless they go for 128bit. 64bit -> 4GB; 96bit->6GB; 128bit->8GB.

Do you think a RX 7500 will be priced lower than $399?
My guess for prices, It could be even higher.
RX 7500(N33) -> $399
RX 7600(N33) -> $499
RX 7700(N32) -> $699
RX 7800(N32) -> $799
RX 7900(N31) -> $999
RX 7950(N31) -> $1099
RX 7990 + 3dcache(N31) -> $1299
These prices are already way better than what Nvidia set for their cards so far.
RTX 4080 12GB(AD104) -> $899
RTX 4080 16GB(AD103) -> $1199
RTX 4090 24GB(AD102) -> $1599
Click to expand...
biostud said:
It will be interesting to see if the N31/N32 segregation will happen with different numbers of MCD as well as active WGP's

Alternatively:

RX 7500(N33) 6GB-> $329
RX 7600(N33) 8GB -> $399
RX 7700(N32) 12GB -> $599
RX 7800(N32) 16GB -> $699
RX 7900(N31) 20GB -> $899
RX 7950(N31) 24GB-> $1099
Click to expand...
Prices seem a little low... I still feel like full N31 will be $1200+ and the V-Cache variant likely another $200 on top of that. I'd love to be wrong though. $1099 for N31 that ties a 4090 in raster would be super sweet.
 
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TESKATLIPOKA

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biostud said:
It will be interesting to see if the N31/N32 segregation will happen with different numbers of MCD as well as active WGP's

Alternatively:

RX 7500(N33) 6GB-> $329
RX 7600(N33) 8GB -> $399
RX 7700(N32) 12GB -> $599
RX 7800(N32) 16GB -> $699
RX 7900(N31) 20GB -> $899
RX 7950(N31) 24GB-> $1099
Click to expand...
Very cheap. Not like I would mind that, but I don't think AMD will play Santa.
I expect 128bit 8GB for RX 7500, last time they used 6GB was with RX 5600, but that one had 192bit GDDR6.
 
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biostud

biostud

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Feb 27, 2003
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TESKATLIPOKA said:
Very cheap. Not like I would mind that, but I don't think AMD will play Santa.
I expect 128bit 8GB for RX 7500, last time they used 6GB was with RX 5600, but that one had 192bit GDDR6.
Click to expand...
Here's to hoping.

Obviously AMD wants profit, but they also wants market shares and sell in volume. So I guess it depends on the balance of costs, performance and profit/unit compared to nvidias products.

Personally I hope for something that push prices. But I guess we all do. :p
 
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Timorous

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biostud said:
Here's to hoping.

Obviously AMD wants profit, but they also wants market shares and sell in volume. So I guess it depends on the balance of costs, performance and profit/unit compared to nvidias products.

Personally I hope for something that push prices. But I guess we all do. :p
Click to expand...

N33 is smaller and on a cheaper node than N23. A $400 7600XT will have far higher margins than the 6600XT and if it performs in the 6800-6800XT tier at 1080p/1440p then it will be a great card.
 
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GodisanAtheist

GodisanAtheist

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IMO I think AMD is done with chasing marketshare, at least in the sense that they'll try to go from 15% to 50% overnight like they did in the small die era. Pantsuit Hsu is a sharp lady, she'll be looking for margins and more incremental marketshare increases. If AMD can make it to 20% this gen it'll be a huge win, but it won't be coming at the expense of margins.
 
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