Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

[uzzi38]

All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html

 

[A///]

80CU, 2,2GHz, 22,5 TFLOPs, 2048bit bus, HBM2e 2,4Gt/s ~ 60-70% faster than 2080ti

I'll take this in Sapphire flavor.

 

[KompuKare]

Last year AMD was coming A YEAR LATE to try to compite with Nvidia, it is very clear that Nvidia was ready to counter, and AMD pricing allowed this. As coming one year late were not bad enoght they were too greedy as well.
That is the worse scenario as possible.

That may be so with their new 'we no longer want to be seen as a budget brand'.
However, if 7nm is wafer limited and if Zen 2 has a far better margin, short and medium term it makes far more sense to only pay lip service to Radeon.
Against that, the design costs of RDNA and RDNA2 are fixed costs which means they really need some volume.
Plus, if they value the Radeon group they have to put something out there as otherwise they'll lose even more marketshare and mindshare.
Rushing is risky though, as the Navi launch pretty much undid the last 5-7 years of good driver progress. Haven't followed the Navi driver issues closely, but was there a possibility of them having had to re-spin the die with talk of a later revision working better?

 

[Kenmitch]

RDNA 2 is going to suck at mining. Amperes going to give it a serious smack down.

Miners don't wait and be arsed out when Ampere is all sold out. In this case good things won't come to those who wait.

 

[Kuiva maa]

100% perf/watt on same 7nm process?
That would mean their engineers are so incompetent that they left 50% power savings on the table in 5700XT.
Even AMD isn't claiming it. Their own cherry picked metrics are showing 50% improvement, which still means their engineers left 33% power savings on the table even on a brand new Navi architecture, which is not something to brag about either.

The 5700XT card was clocked outside of the efficiency curve. Essentially it targed the 2070 performance segment and did so with a 251mm2 chip vs a 445mm2 TU106 chip that 2070 used. AMD could have provided a much more efficient 2070 competitor using a bigger die, clocked more conservatively but it would have commanded the same price either way since performance is the most important metric. They chose to make more GPUs per mm2 instead. More money this way.

 

[blckgrffn]

RDNA 2 is going to suck at mining. Amperes going to give it a serious smack down.

Miners don't wait and be arsed out when Ampere is all sold out. In this case good things won't come to those who wait.

Oh no. GPU mining, what a 2018 concept

 

[Kenmitch]

Oh no. GPU mining, what a 2018 concept

???

Might as well get my shot of doom and gloom in!

The caveat is I'd prefer a AMD gpu upgrade if I was going to upgrade.

No sarcasm involved. I hope Ampere makes Big Navi look really silly....When it comes to mining.

 

[lixlax]

OK, here goes nothing!

Navi23
40 CUs, 2GHz,10,2 TFLOPs, 256bit bus, 16Gt/s ~ 20-25% faster than 5700xt/same as 2080s

Navi22
60CUs, 2GHz, 15,3 TFLOPs, 384bit bus, 16Gt/s ~10-20% faster than 2080ti

Navi21
80CU, 2,2GHz, 22,5 TFLOPs, 2048bit bus, HBM2e 2,4Gt/s ~ 60-70% faster than 2080ti

That's basically what I've been thinking lately- atleast on the CU count and memory bus size (since clock ability and IPC is still largely unknown, your perfomance estimations are quite optimistic). On Navi 21 side I think its either 512bit GDDR6 or HBM2e, but as it is probably going inside some proffessional cards as well (+Apple) then HBM seems more likely. Expecting Navi 21/22/23 to have 16/12/8GB memory sizes (which is much more optimal compared to what Nvidia has this generation).

 

[Guru]

RDNA 2 is going to suck at mining. Amperes going to give it a serious smack down.

Miners don't wait and be arsed out when Ampere is all sold out. In this case good things won't come to those who wait.

mining is dead, the only thing keeping it afloat is the big Chinese mining farms, but even they are not getting good return on investment, so I we won't see another mining boom, especially not on gaming cards.

 

[Glo.]

RDNA 2 is going to suck at mining. Amperes going to give it a serious smack down.

Miners don't wait and be arsed out when Ampere is all sold out. In this case good things won't come to those who wait.

If that is going to be the case - the best news ever.

Mining craze is coming fast.

 

[Kenmitch]

If that is going to be the case - the best news ever.

Mining craze is coming fast.

bcxz....Not sure what my daughter meant by this? I guess we can all use our imagination trying to figure out what it stands for so I'll not edit it out.

The forums full of Big Navi has no chance. Why would those guys want Ampere to get the smack down by Big Navi in mining. That would be kind of a double standard and make them look like FUD slingers wouldn't it?

 

[Glo.]

bcxz....Not sure what my daughter meant by this? I guess we can all use our imagination trying to figure out what it stands for so I'll not edit it out.

The forums full of Big Navi has no chance. Why would those guys want Ampere to get the smack down by Big Navi in mining. That would be kind of a double standard and make them look like FUD slingers wouldn't it?

If Ampere is way better than RDNA2 in mining - there is still some chance that not all GPUs will be bought out, by crypto miners.

 

[Konan]

Navi21
80CU, 2,2GHz, 22,5 TFLOPs, 2048bit bus, HBM2e 2,4Gt/s ~ 60-70% faster than 2080ti

Don't think they will be using HBM2e on Consumer cards.

 

[blckgrffn]

If Ampere is way better than RDNA2 in mining - there is still some chance that not all GPUs will be bought out, by crypto miners.

Man, I don't know. BTC GPU mining requires some cheap power or dedicated SOC's are crushing them for profitability.

These Ampere cards with their uber TDPs are really unkind to home mining setups unless there is a lot of money to be made at lower power levels and the cards get way more efficient.

If we had a different script for this play, say minor lift on 2080ti perf but at way lower power, like sub 175W then I would be more worried about mining implications.

The hash rate keeps going way, way, way up and the reward goes down.

If you wanted to make money on GPUs, 2013-2016 are calling and letting you know to turn those 58xx GPUs from ATI into massive millions today

I so missed out! Why did I spend time in the Distributed Computing sub instead of this one in 2012/2013

 

[moinmoin]

Xbox Series launches on November 10th, that leaves the first November week should Big Navi launch in November as well but before the consoles as told (assuming PS5 doesn't launch earlier than Xbox Series).

 

[uzzi38]

Don't think they will be using HBM2e on Consumer cards.

I know I was quite hard on ruling out the possibility a long while ago, but honestly speaking Nvidia's pricing this gen does give AMD the opportunity if they want.

Whether they will is an entirely different question mind you.

 

[Kenmitch]

If Ampere is way better than RDNA2 in mining - there is still some chance that not all GPUs will be bought out, by crypto miners.

MSI thinking ahead. Probably will wind up turning a greater profit on old stock.

MSI registers a bunch of last-gen Turing cards for cryptocurrency mining

Have to get rid of old stock somehow, right?

www.pcgamer.com

 

[Kenmitch]

Too funny!

AMD Fuels Nightmares of Intel & Nvidia

From thread-ripping Ryzen CPUs to the Big Navi GPU hype-train, this year everything’s coming up AMD, and its resurgence is giving competitors Intel and Nvidia good reason to worry.

www.audioholics.com

 

[mmaenpaa]

If that is going to be the case - the best news ever.

Mining craze is coming fast.

I agree, even RX 580 model prices are going up which is baffling. I believe demand is rising due mining boom.

I ordered Sapphire RX 580 cards exactly one month ago from our distributor. Now that I compare prices *today*

Sapphire Radeon RX 580 Graphic Card, (BE version), 11265-67-20G
Price has gone up 19.65%

Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 Graphic Card - 8 GB , 11265-05-20G
Price has gone up 17.65%

 

[blckgrffn]

???

Might as well get my shot of doom and gloom in!

The caveat is I'd prefer a AMD gpu upgrade if I was going to upgrade.

No sarcasm involved. I hope Ampere makes Big Navi look really silly....When it comes to mining.

Haha, fair enough.

*Personally* I believe only BTC will hold any value long term *&* I don't think that mining on GPUs is going to continue given the rise in ASICs.

Seriously, if you are going to buy $800 GPUs you should be looking at specialized hardware instead.

I think the basement crypto rush is all but dead. That's my personal opinion and that's why I don't think it matters which company is better at mining, compared to real hardware they are laughable in terms of value.

 

[senseamp]

The 5700XT card was clocked outside of the efficiency curve. Essentially it targed the 2070 performance segment and did so with a 251mm2 chip vs a 445mm2 TU106 chip that 2070 used. AMD could have provided a much more efficient 2070 competitor using a bigger die, clocked more conservatively but it would have commanded the same price either way since performance is the most important metric. They chose to make more GPUs per mm2 instead. More money this way.

And they are going to do it again. AMD is going to squeeze every last dollar worth of perf out of their silicon. If you think they are going to give you a huge die that runs at low voltage to save power in a desktop setting, you are dreaming. Opportunity cost is too high when they can use those 7nm wafers for CPUs with much smaller dies and no board, RAM, or cooler to pay for.

 

[Kenmitch]

And they are going to do it again. AMD is going to squeeze every last dollar worth of perf out of their silicon. If you think they are going to give you a huge die that runs at low voltage to save power in a desktop setting, you are dreaming. Opportunity cost is too high when they can use those 7nm wafers for CPUs with much smaller dies and no board, RAM, or cooler to pay for.

Why not just wait for reviews before jumping to conclusions?

 

[uzzi38]

Wow, so it is possible to have a Youtuber that can (mostly) understand how hardware works.

*Goes into shock*.

Anyway, here's some recommended watching for those of you wanting to put 20 minutes in. Audio's not the best, but it's still audible and gets the job done.

 

[senseamp]

Why not just wait for reviews before jumping to conclusions?

that's boring

 

[uzzi38]

And they are going to do it again. AMD is going to squeeze every last dollar worth of perf out of their silicon. If you think they are going to give you a huge die that runs at low voltage to save power in a desktop setting, you are dreaming. Opportunity cost is too high when they can use those 7nm wafers for CPUs with much smaller dies and no board, RAM, or cooler to pay for.

Not when their main push in the consumer space over the next couple of years is mobile it's not.

AMD have a perf/W rhetoric to hammer into people's skulls.

 

[Helis4life]

Wow, so it is possible to have a Youtuber that can understand how hardware works.

*Goes into shock*.

Anyway, here's some recommended watching for those of you wanting to put 20 minutes in. Audio's not the best, but it's still audible and gets the job done.

What I thought was interesting was his comment about AMDs RT implementation being faster/more efficient than nvidias, if the developer implemented it appropriately. Coupled with the fact that both consoles will be using rdna2s implementation of RT, this might mean we see wider developer adoption for AMDs pathway.

I'm curious how a Dev like CDProjektRed will then handle the differing RT pathways, one for the pc and one for the consoles and whether for instance both pathways could be implemented and the appropriate one chosen by the engine at runtime

The nvidia skinworks comment made me chuckle a bit. Can definitely see something like that in the future