Question Speculation: RDNA2 + CDNA Architectures thread

[uzzi38]

All die sizes are within 5mm^2. The poster here has been right on some things in the past afaik, and to his credit was the first to saying 505mm^2 for Navi21, which other people have backed up. Even still though, take the following with a pich of salt.

Navi21 - 505mm^2

Navi22 - 340mm^2

Navi23 - 240mm^2

Source is the following post: https://www.ptt.cc/bbs/PC_Shopping/M.1588075782.A.C1E.html

 

[Glo.]

Yeah. AMD's physical design team still has a lot to learn from Nvidia I guess.

 

[CastleBravo]

Zen 2 at 3.66 Ghz (SMT off) draws 55w approx. That 12 TF RDNA2 GPU in Series X is drawing less than 130w. Even against mobile RX 5700M that Series X GPU is atleast >1.5x perf/watt if you account for twice the VRAM capacity

AMD Radeon RX 5700M Mobile GPU

Specifications and benchmarks of the AMD Radeon RX 5700M GPU.

www.notebookcheck.net

I doubt the CPU cores are pulling 55w during gameplay. This is still impressive efficiency either way though.

 

[alexruiz]

If Ampere is on TSMC 7nm from the very beginning your opinion will be vastly different.

A poster here before had claimed that Samsung 8nm process ran cooler, was vastly cheaper and had lower leakage.
He was also an nV fanboy. Now you are claiming that TSMC 7nm is much better
So, can you guys make up your mind? Is Samsung 8nm better or not?

 

[eek2121]

Zen 2 at 3.66 Ghz (SMT off) draws 55w approx. That 12 TF RDNA2 GPU in Series X is drawing less than 130w. Even against mobile RX 5700M that Series X GPU is atleast >1.5x perf/watt if you account for twice the VRAM capacity

AMD Radeon RX 5700M Mobile GPU

Specifications and benchmarks of the AMD Radeon RX 5700M GPU.

www.notebookcheck.net

The cores are similar to Renoir cores (cut down cache, etc) so they likely stay under 45W

 

[dzoni2k2]

Selecting kitchen to announce Ampere was the appropriate choice. It's definitely going to look like an oven compared to RDNA2.

 

[uzzi38]

The cores are similar to Renoir cores (cut down cache, etc) so they likely stay under 45W

In Blender at ~3.6GHz Renoir pulls between 50W-55W (it kinda fluctuates)

This is the 4900HS, which is literal best bin silicon too. Series X will likely run a higher voltage than the 4900HS does to ensure that as many chips are possible are fine for use in the consoles. So I think 55W is a safe guess.

 

[CastleBravo]

In Blender at ~3.6GHz Renoir pulls between 50W-55W (it kinda fluctuates)

This is the 4900HS, which is literal best bin silicon too. Series X will likely run a higher voltage than the 4900HS does to ensure that as many chips are possible are fine for use in the consoles. So I think 55W is a safe guess.

Yes, but the XSX wasn't running Blender when it was measured pulling 190w, it was running a game.

 

[Krteq]

Measuring in older (non "next-gen" game)

Red Dead Redemption 2

tweakers.net - Xbox Series X Preview - Onze eerste indrukken en tests (NL)

 

[Antey]

deleted

 

[uzzi38]

Yes, but the XSX wasn't running Blender when it was measured pulling 190w, it was running a game.

The XSX also has to set a strict power budget whilst also never dropping clocks. If they can't guarantee a full AVX load will do that, they can't uphold the guarantee they've made.

 

[eek2121]

The XSX also has to set a strict power budget whilst also never dropping clocks. If they can't guarantee a full AVX load will do that, they can't uphold the guarantee they've made.

Things get really interesting when you realize that the GPU performs between a 2080S and a 2080ti, yet total system power consumption including CPUs, storage, etc. is less than the 2080S.

 

[raghu78]

Things get really interesting when you realize that the GPU performs between a 2080S and a 2080ti, yet total system power consumption including CPUs, storage, etc. is less than the 2080S.

Total system power consumption is less than RTX 2080 which has a 215w TDP with GPU performance comparable to RTX 2080 Ti (this will be confirmed in a few days when Navi 21 based SKUs launch). The power efficiency of Xbox Series X is very impressive and bodes well for upcoming PC desktop and notebook RDNA2 GPUs.

 

[Timorous]

So XSX drawing 190W at the wall. If we allocate 50W for everything apart from GPU and Ram that leaves 140W for the GPU (less really due to PSU efficiency but lets go with this high ball estimate).

If RDNA2 scales like the 5500XT -> 5700XT that means perf/watt of a larger GPU will be the same as the XSX. That means that a 300W TBP part would have just over 2x the performance of the XSX which if we lowball to 2080 means just ahead of the 3090. If we go with XSX = 2080S then that puts our hypothetical GPU at 3090 +10% as an upper bound estimate.

I think this makes it more likely that AMD did not use the top tier GPU in the tease at the end of the Zen3 event.

The other point to take away is that double the XSX GPU is 128 ROPs, 104CUs and a 640bit bus with 32GB ram. Again using 5500XT to 5700XT this kind of doubling, even with similar clock speeds did not result in a 2x power increase which means a clockspeed uplift can be achieved even if you double all of the functional units without exceeding 2x the power.

 

[sandorski]

InfiniROPs....

 

[Saylick]

InfiniROPs....

Can't wait for AMD to roll out InfiniFPS.

 

[Tup3x]

If those games hit FPS cap then those power measurements are borderline meaningless.

 

[Stuka87]

If those games hit FPS cap then those power measurements are borderline meaningless.

They aren't meaningless, it just means that any comparisons need to also be done at the same FPS.

In this case Dirt 5 supports 120fps, but we don't know if system wattage changed in this mode vs 60fps mode.

 

[dzoni2k2]

They aren't meaningless, it just means that any comparisons need to also be done at the same FPS.

In this case Dirt 5 supports 120fps, but we don't know if system wattage changed in this mode vs 60fps mode.

From what I understand, Dirt 5 4K HDR pulled 162W and was the most power demanding Dirt 5 mode.

 

[blckgrffn]

They aren't meaningless, it just means that any comparisons need to also be done at the same FPS.

In this case Dirt 5 supports 120fps, but we don't know if system wattage changed in this mode vs 60fps mode.

A little off topic maybe, but it sounds like Dirt 5 both needs to be in 120FPS mode to be really appreciated as a next gen title - and that serious graphical restrictions are in place in 120 fps mode.

Maybe I am expecting to much, but at 1080p and the specifications, I am expecting some really pretty scenes even at 120 FPS. This is just based on my 5700xt & 3600 which is "ball park" of the series x. At you know, minimum 2x power usage

 

[amrnuke]

Can't wait for AMD to roll out InfiniFPS.

This will happen on their surprise Christmas 2020 card, the 515m2 Chungus Navi, codename Neon Sunfish, 68 kW power draw, 88,000 CU. It is a true 6-slot solution, requiring an open-bench and 6 actual open PCIe 4.0 slots for bandwidth, though despite the requirement for a 15 ton A/C unit to cool it, it'll still melt the concrete of your garage floor and may open a wormhole to the Andromeda.

 

[mohit9206]

This will happen on their surprise Christmas 2020 card, the 515m2 Chungus Navi, codename Neon Sunfish, 68 kW power draw, 88,000 CU. It is a true 6-slot solution, requiring an open-bench and 6 actual open PCIe 4.0 slots for bandwidth, though despite the requirement for a 15 ton A/C unit to cool it, it'll still melt the concrete of your garage floor and may open a wormhole to the Andromeda.

But will it have DLSS 2.0?

 

[Stuka87]

A little off topic maybe, but it sounds like Dirt 5 both needs to be in 120FPS mode to be really appreciated as a next gen title - and that serious graphical restrictions are in place in 120 fps mode.

Maybe I am expecting to much, but at 1080p and the specifications, I am expecting some really pretty scenes even at 120 FPS. This is just based on my 5700xt & 3600 which is "ball park" of the series x. At you know, minimum 2x power usage

Yeah, Dirt 5 has actual graphics settings. Perfer performance over quality, and vice versa. Not sure which one is the most demanding.

 

[eek2121]

Total system power consumption is less than RTX 2080 which has a 215w TDP with GPU performance comparable to RTX 2080 Ti (this will be confirmed in a few days when Navi 21 based SKUs launch). The power efficiency of Xbox Series X is very impressive and bodes well for upcoming PC desktop and notebook RDNA2 GPUs.

The XBox Series X GPU is actually closer to the 2080S than the 2080ti (I know a guy who has access to one, though I haven't gotten to play with it, he works for a game studio). However, the desktop parts are clocked significantly.

If those games hit FPS cap then those power measurements are borderline meaningless.

The 120fps "cap"?

But will it have DLSS 2.0?

I'm sure AMD is quaking in their boots at the whole 3-5 games that use it. Knowing AMD they probably have been cooking up something that works with any game.

 

[zinfamous]

This will happen on their surprise Christmas 2020 card, the 515m2 Chungus Navi, codename Neon Sunfish, 68 kW power draw, 88,000 CU. It is a true 6-slot solution, requiring an open-bench and 6 actual open PCIe 4.0 slots for bandwidth, though despite the requirement for a 15 ton A/C unit to cool it, it'll still melt the concrete of your garage floor and may open a wormhole to the Andromeda.

huh. I thought this was a reference to The Road Warrior, did some internetting...then learned a new-to-me thing about what has been happening on the internet.

I literally don't even know what is going on here.

 

[Saylick]

But will it have DLSS 2.0?

It needs Radeon Chill 2.0. When enabled, the card becomes a refrigerator and is capable of reversing global warming if enabled long enough. You can game and serve nice, cold beers, all from your PC case!