SPECIFIC workout question

[Alphathree33]

I'm not perfect, so I can't always eat every 3 hours with a perfect mix of protein and carbs.

To help me better manage my diet, I want to understand WHEN my body needs the most calories, and when I am just feeding it unnecessarily.

When does my body actually do the muscle building?

When I sleep? OK. The first post-workout night only? Or two nights? Three nights?

How much does it build during the day?

My experience is that if I:

1) Workout at 6pm
2) Take protein shake
3) Eat big meal
4) Eat big meal again before bed
5) Wake up

And then basically just "do nothing", it doesn't affect my gains as compared to if I continue eating a ton throughout the next day, and the next, and the next.

IN OTHER WORDS, I appear to get most of my gains IN THE 24 HOURS AFTER A GIVEN WORKOUT.

Is this TRUE, or is it just me imaginging it?

My logical brain says: "Self, there's no reason to continue force-feeding yourself 3000+ calories a day on days when you don't manage to go to the gym."

No where on the Internet can I find what you would think would be a relatively simple graph:

X-axis: TIME in hours
Y-axis: muscle growth at this given hour as a percentage of total growth to be achieved from ONE WORKOUT, starting at TIME 0

I'd expect the graph to peak immediately after the workout and also during the first night of sleep... and the calorie/protein requirements to mirror the muscle growth graph.

The question is, does it also extend out to the next day and the next day and the next day... or does it immetiately drop off after the first night of sleep? (And all of that soreness I feel for a day or two is just lactic acid, but not "growth" per se.)

Comments?

Again, please actually read my post. I'm not asking, "Hey guys what is a good workout/diet!!!" I can find that on 1 million different places on the web.

I'm asking specifically about the muscle growth process.

 

[bignateyk]

Interesting question. If I had to guess, I would say it probably depends on your body type (endomorph, ectomorph, ...)

 

[uclaLabrat]

You know, I kinda noticed the same pattern myself as you described. I only go to the gym a few times a week (2-3 max) and I was at a conference in boston, so I missed a week. But I've been eating a lot still and last night it seemed a lot easier to get back into having like two weeks off.

 

[vi edit]

The most important thing is to make sure you get a shake in you post workout for recovery. Outside of that, get a complete breakfast and you are doing about 90% of the "right" choices.

Recent studies that I have read in my Men's Health state that the body does best by spacing out your protein throughout the day. Men seemed build more muslce if they nursed a protein shake over the course of 2-3 hours instead of downing it all at breakfast.

But it wasn't like a night or day difference. Eat a good breakfast, have a shake after workout, and then just make sure you fill in the gaps at lunch and dinner and don't sweat the details. What you eat is more important than when you eat it. Again - outside of post workout and breakfast.

 

[Saint Michael]

Post-workout soreness is not caused by "lactic acid". You're muscles have experienced micro-trauma, and your body is recovering. While recovering your body generally overcompensates with muscle growth, provided it has enough calories and protein to work with. There's no graph that can explain exactly how you are responding on any given day. Everybody is different. Taking that into account it's best to pick a solid routine and stick with it (of course taking into account the need for workout variety), rather than just haphazardly going about it figuring you can skip days here and there, whether that means skipping workout or eating. And in response to uclaLabrat, most bodybuilders I've ever heard of take a week off at regular intervals, it makes a big difference in your body's ability to cope with your regimen.

 

[Alphathree33]

Originally posted by: Saint Michael
Post-workout soreness is not caused by "lactic acid". You're muscles have experienced micro-trauma, and your body is recovering. While recovering your body generally overcompensates with muscle growth, provided it has enough calories and protein to work with. There's no graph that can explain exactly how you are responding on any given day. Everybody is different. Taking that into account it's best to pick a solid routine and stick with it (of course taking into account the need for workout variety), rather than just haphazardly going about it figuring you can skip days here and there, whether that means skipping workout or eating. And in response to uclaLabrat, most bodybuilders I've ever heard of take a week off at regular intervals, it makes a big difference in your body's ability to cope with your regimen.

Interesting... so many people say lactic acid. Then some people say "micro tears". Then some say both.

You know, we've come such a long way with technology, I don't think anyone would debate how a Pentium 4 pipeline works, or whether or not F=ma for most real-world scenarios...

... so why does everyone who knows "something" about biology always have a different answer to some of the most basic questions?

It can't be that hard.

Oh well, regardless of what the soreness is from, I've heard people say, "Soreness is not an indication of recovery! It has nothing to do with recovery! Idiot!" And other people say, "That feeling IS your body recovering."

 

[Saint Michael]

Originally posted by: Alphathree33

Originally posted by: Saint Michael
Post-workout soreness is not caused by "lactic acid". You're muscles have experienced micro-trauma, and your body is recovering. While recovering your body generally overcompensates with muscle growth, provided it has enough calories and protein to work with. There's no graph that can explain exactly how you are responding on any given day. Everybody is different. Taking that into account it's best to pick a solid routine and stick with it (of course taking into account the need for workout variety), rather than just haphazardly going about it figuring you can skip days here and there, whether that means skipping workout or eating. And in response to uclaLabrat, most bodybuilders I've ever heard of take a week off at regular intervals, it makes a big difference in your body's ability to cope with your regimen.

Interesting... so many people say lactic acid. Then some people say "micro tears". Then some say both.

You know, we've come such a long way with technology, I don't think anyone would debate how a Pentium 4 pipeline works, or whether or not F=ma for most real-world scenarios...

... so why does everyone who knows "something" about biology always have a different answer to some of the most basic questions?

It can't be that hard.

Oh well, regardless of what the soreness is from, I've heard people say, "Soreness is not an indication of recovery! It has nothing to do with recovery! Idiot!" And other people say, "That feeling IS your body recovering."

Probably because the true cause is still unknown. I gave you an answer based on the most convincing explanation I've seen so far, but it still isn't conclusive, unfortunately. See this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D..._onset_muscle_soreness

 

[BigPoppa]

Originally posted by: Alphathree33

Originally posted by: Saint Michael
Post-workout soreness is not caused by "lactic acid". You're muscles have experienced micro-trauma, and your body is recovering. While recovering your body generally overcompensates with muscle growth, provided it has enough calories and protein to work with. There's no graph that can explain exactly how you are responding on any given day. Everybody is different. Taking that into account it's best to pick a solid routine and stick with it (of course taking into account the need for workout variety), rather than just haphazardly going about it figuring you can skip days here and there, whether that means skipping workout or eating. And in response to uclaLabrat, most bodybuilders I've ever heard of take a week off at regular intervals, it makes a big difference in your body's ability to cope with your regimen.

Interesting... so many people say lactic acid. Then some people say "micro tears". Then some say both.

You know, we've come such a long way with technology, I don't think anyone would debate how a Pentium 4 pipeline works, or whether or not F=ma for most real-world scenarios...

... so why does everyone who knows "something" about biology always have a different answer to some of the most basic questions?

It can't be that hard.

Oh well, regardless of what the soreness is from, I've heard people say, "Soreness is not an indication of recovery! It has nothing to do with recovery! Idiot!" And other people say, "That feeling IS your body recovering."

Because there is a TON of misinformation out there. I myself don't know the real answer.

Pentium 4:Human Designed::Human Body:Evolution Designed.

Its much easier to know "everything" about a product you design. The human body is a monstrously complex organism. A single cell is amazingly complex. Even just a single piece of a cell can be incredibly complex: Cell membrane, cellular signalling, etc.

 

[Alphathree33]

Originally posted by: BigPoppa

Originally posted by: Alphathree33

Originally posted by: Saint Michael
Post-workout soreness is not caused by "lactic acid". You're muscles have experienced micro-trauma, and your body is recovering. While recovering your body generally overcompensates with muscle growth, provided it has enough calories and protein to work with. There's no graph that can explain exactly how you are responding on any given day. Everybody is different. Taking that into account it's best to pick a solid routine and stick with it (of course taking into account the need for workout variety), rather than just haphazardly going about it figuring you can skip days here and there, whether that means skipping workout or eating. And in response to uclaLabrat, most bodybuilders I've ever heard of take a week off at regular intervals, it makes a big difference in your body's ability to cope with your regimen.

Interesting... so many people say lactic acid. Then some people say "micro tears". Then some say both.

You know, we've come such a long way with technology, I don't think anyone would debate how a Pentium 4 pipeline works, or whether or not F=ma for most real-world scenarios...

... so why does everyone who knows "something" about biology always have a different answer to some of the most basic questions?

It can't be that hard.

Oh well, regardless of what the soreness is from, I've heard people say, "Soreness is not an indication of recovery! It has nothing to do with recovery! Idiot!" And other people say, "That feeling IS your body recovering."

Because there is a TON of misinformation out there. I myself don't know the real answer.

Pentium 4:Human Designed::Human Body:Evolution Designed.

Its much easier to know "everything" about a product you design. The human body is a monstrously complex organism. A single cell is amazingly complex. Even just a single piece of a cell can be incredibly complex: Cell membrane, cellular signalling, etc.

Then I wish people would be more scientific in their explanations: "Evidence currently exists to support several competing theories, including..."

Then again, this being the INTARWEB, I guess I have rather high expectations.

Interestingly, if the soreness WAS in fact an indicator of MUSCLE BUILDING, then that would be a perfect indicator to know when to eat more, when to rest, and when to hit the gym again.

 

[Saint Michael]

Alphathree33, the reason I gave you a simple answer first, even if it's not entirely true, is because I know people are more comfortable to stick with something if they can get some concrete fact to back it up with. Unfortunately you can't have that, but the more important thing I told you is to pick a plan and stick with it in a disciplined manner. That's really the best thing you can do, because there are many plans out there that are quite different in their approaches that all work. The more important thing for anyone is consistency, not dead-on scientific accuracy.

 

[Alphathree33]

Originally posted by: Saint Michael
Alphathree33, the reason I gave you a simple answer first, even if it's not entirely true, is because I know people are more comfortable to stick with something if they can get some concrete fact to back it up with. Unfortunately you can't have that, but the more important thing I told you is to pick a plan and stick with it in a disciplined manner. That's really the best thing you can do, because there are many plans out there that are quite different in their approaches that all work. The more important thing for anyone is consistency, not dead-on scientific accuracy.

But...but...my analytical brain... =)