Speaking of Karl Marx....

[chess9]

"Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalised and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to Communism."
Karl Marx, Das Kapital 1867

I'm not going to support Communism, but I find it odd that it wasn't Communism that destroyed Capitalism-as Krushchev suggested it would do-but it's Capitalism that is destroying itself-AS MARX wisely predicted!

My view is that we need to pull all of this back from the brink of REVOLUTION before it's too late. America is no more ready for a revolution than the French were in the late 18th century.

Furthermore, Communism has so many terminal infirmities, Americans should accept heavily regulated Capitalism as a BLESSING.

To the right wingers screaming for less regulation I say: Beware!

-Robert

 

[OCGuy]

*Paging RedunderUrBed*

 

[halik]

made up bullshit quote

Das Kapital
Only chapter 15 and 24 mentions technology when they're talking about producers.

This also further proves my thesis that the social is made up of idiots; i bet you got this form reddit or some similar idiocy.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: chess9
"Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalised and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to Communism."
Karl Marx, Das Kapital 1867

I'm not going to support Communism, but I find it odd that it wasn't Communism that destroyed Capitalism-as Krushchev suggested it would do-but it's Capitalism that is destroying itself-AS MARX wisely predicted!

My view is that we need to pull all of this back from the brink of REVOLUTION before it's too late. America is no more ready for a revolution than the French were in the late 18th century.

Furthermore, Communism has so many terminal infirmities, Americans should accept heavily regulated Capitalism as a BLESSING.

To the right wingers screaming for less regulation I say: Beware!

-Robert

Under-regulated capitalism and communism are both disasters. A healthy democracy where the public interest has power, and regulates the powers that be, is what works.

It does things like not only regulating the insuring of financial products - which we have now in theory - but prevents evasion of the rules with things like 'credit default swaps' that leave the system exposed to disaster in order to profit the small financial class who have profited hugely from the abuses.

 

[cwjerome]

I think a bunch of people said the same thing in the 25 other panic/recession/depressions the US has been through.

 

[Craig234]

By the way, while some of what Marx said was very valid and insightful, times have changed and it's about as timely as 1880 comments on mass transportation with horses.

Unfortunately, debate on the merits of Marx are all but impossible as he's become to most nothing more than a red cloth being waved that causes knee-jerk outrage.

 

[SagaLore]

I agree, this sounds reasonable to me.

 

[chess9]

I checked with Snopes.com and a friend of mine who is a Marx afficianado. He said it was probably a poor translation for the German. Snopes doesn't comment on this quote.

A friend of mine is looking for spoor of fakery and will report to me and I will report back.

In all honesty, I read "Capital" about 1965 and was glad to finish! It's a dreadfully dense book as I recall. Very hard slogging.

The quote, though, is almost irrelevant-but not quite-to the idea I'm presenting, which is that there are much worse alternatives to well regulated Capitalism. When the rioting begins, maybe we can re-visit this view.

-Robert

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: SagaLore
I agree, this sounds reasonable to me.

Except, as Halik said, it's bullshit. Somebody is creating a passage to fit the times, then using Karl Marx to scare the shit out of people and start some type of campaign. It's a nice, but pathetic, ploy.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
I think a bunch of people said the same thing in the 25 other panic/recession/depressions the US has been through.

This one is going to be much worse than anything since 1932. Remember, we changed the way we measure unemployment in 1996, so these numbers of unemployed are understated.

Here in Florida, we have catastrophe.

-Robert

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SagaLore
I agree, this sounds reasonable to me.

Except, as Halik said, it's bullshit. Somebody is creating a passage to fit the times, then using Karl Marx to scare the shit out of people and start some type of campaign. It's a nice, but pathetic, ploy.

This quote is all over Europe, and no one has alleged it's a fake. Apparently, it was in The Telegraph a few days ago.

-Robert

 

[nullzero]

This is a bogus quote by some communist worshiping idiots.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SagaLore
I agree, this sounds reasonable to me.

Except, as Halik said, it's bullshit. Somebody is creating a passage to fit the times, then using Karl Marx to scare the shit out of people and start some type of campaign. It's a nice, but pathetic, ploy.

This quote is all over Europe, and no one has alleged it's a fake. Apparently, it was in The Telegraph a few days ago.

-Robert

Because how many people are going to pick up that book and re-read through it to refute the story?

Chain letters about Bill Gates sending money to people for forwarding emails were sent by millions. People are stupid.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
I think a bunch of people said the same thing in the 25 other panic/recession/depressions the US has been through.

At no other time in our history have we had such pro socialist leaders as we have now. That could also be said previously, as we've had a very long slide into it.

With a decline in religion, increasing over the past century, we have replaced god with government. Where as god would provide, now government will provide. Where as god had the answers, government has the answers. He who looks after you, takes care of you, and micro manages every aspect of your life. All roles, all answers, all control has been granted to the Union.

We are state property, just as the communists wanted. We haven't becomes atheists at all, we have merely changed the face of god and to whom our devout faith is entrusted. From a mystical deity to a false idol. If you disavowed the prospect of an invisible stranger dictating your life to you, and rebelled against that notion, I can?t imagine now what your reaction is to politicians adopting that role. In some respects I find people are enjoying it all too much while at the same time approval ratings are at all time lows.

In the end, placing politicians on the pedestal of a deity will result in nothing less horrific than Stalin?s Soviet Union. The only inherent difference being our road to this end.

 

[Craig234]

Among other things, remember Marx wrote at the birth of the industrial revolution, before there were any 'anti-trust laws' in the US, for example, 50 years before there was an SEC.

There had been economic depressions - but the entity of corporations and the modern economy were just barely starting to take off in any modern form.

The US corporation of 150 years ago bears almost no resemblance to today's multi-national. They were a far more limited part of the economy.

 

[zephyrprime]

Yeah, this is fake. I've read das kapital too years ago and this just doesn't sound like something marx with his odd 19th century writing style (translated from german) would say.

Plus, look at this line: "to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology". Nobody would talk about buying "technology" back in the 19th century. Might as well be saying "buy ipods" because that's how fake it sounds.

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Yeah, this is fake. I've read das kapital too years ago and this just doesn't sound like something marx with his odd 19th century writing style (translated from german) would say.

Plus, look at this line: "to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology". Nobody would talk about buying "technology" back in the 19th century. Might as well be saying "buy ipods" because that's how fake it sounds.

Actually, this notion of Marx not using the word 'technology' has been debunked by wiki.

However, after reading through some of Marx again, I suspect this quote is a modernized transubstantiation of sorts of Marx's views. It reflects his views, but PROBABLY isn't a quote by him. Having said that, no one has come forward to definitely say this quote is fake. There are only some people questioning the authenticity of it. Some suggest, as I say above, that the quote is a distillation of his thinking.

The authenticity of the quote is really a side issue to me, at any rate. But, have your fun....

-Robert

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Yeah, this is fake. I've read das kapital too years ago and this just doesn't sound like something marx with his odd 19th century writing style (translated from german) would say.

Plus, look at this line: "to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology". Nobody would talk about buying "technology" back in the 19th century. Might as well be saying "buy ipods" because that's how fake it sounds.

Actually, this notion of Marx not using the word 'technology' has been debunked by wiki.

However, after reading through some of Marx again, I suspect this quote is a modernized transubstantiation of sorts of Marx's views. It reflects his views, but PROBABLY isn't a quote by him. Having said that, no one has come forward to definitely say this quote is fake. There are only some people questioning the authenticity of it. Some suggest, as I say above, that the quote is a distillation of his thinking.

The authenticity of the quote is really a side issue to me, at any rate. But, have your fun....

-Robert

LOL. Nobody has refuted it? I see the same posts over and over on the internet, NOBODY can find this in Das Kapital, NOBODY. What do you need to refute it, a letter from God or Marx himself? Why don't you take a few days of fact checking yourself and read through Das Kapital yourself. I guess the big question is, even if you don't find it (and you won't) will you believe yourself?

A "distillation" is stupid. First, the entire premise of the quote is to say that he has some type of far-reaching vision to cover this situation. Sorry, but a "distillation" of views is an interpretations and interpretations are nothing more than taking what IS written and reading between the lines to fit what you want it to be. There is no fact there, only interpretation. That interpretation obviously wanted to show how "evil" the bailouts are and show that we are heading towards communism. That is interpretation with an agenda, a populist one that chest-beating Conservatives would love to have chanted over and over.

You were played for a fool and you only perpetuated a lie and fell for somebody's false agenda. Admit it and move on.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Yeah, this is fake. I've read das kapital too years ago and this just doesn't sound like something marx with his odd 19th century writing style (translated from german) would say.

Plus, look at this line: "to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology". Nobody would talk about buying "technology" back in the 19th century. Might as well be saying "buy ipods" because that's how fake it sounds.

Actually, this notion of Marx not using the word 'technology' has been debunked by wiki.

However, after reading through some of Marx again, I suspect this quote is a modernized transubstantiation of sorts of Marx's views. It reflects his views, but PROBABLY isn't a quote by him. Having said that, no one has come forward to definitely say this quote is fake. There are only some people questioning the authenticity of it. Some suggest, as I say above, that the quote is a distillation of his thinking.

The authenticity of the quote is really a side issue to me, at any rate. But, have your fun....

-Robert

As I said there about 10 mentions of Technology in the essay, and they all refer to technology in terms of Producer Theory of economics. more info

 

[chess9]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Yeah, this is fake. I've read das kapital too years ago and this just doesn't sound like something marx with his odd 19th century writing style (translated from german) would say.

Plus, look at this line: "to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology". Nobody would talk about buying "technology" back in the 19th century. Might as well be saying "buy ipods" because that's how fake it sounds.

Actually, this notion of Marx not using the word 'technology' has been debunked by wiki.

However, after reading through some of Marx again, I suspect this quote is a modernized transubstantiation of sorts of Marx's views. It reflects his views, but PROBABLY isn't a quote by him. Having said that, no one has come forward to definitely say this quote is fake. There are only some people questioning the authenticity of it. Some suggest, as I say above, that the quote is a distillation of his thinking.

The authenticity of the quote is really a side issue to me, at any rate. But, have your fun....

-Robert

LOL. Nobody has refuted it? I see the same posts over and over on the internet, NOBODY can find this in Das Kapital, NOBODY. What do you need to refute it, a letter from God or Marx himself? Why don't you take a few days of fact checking yourself and read through Das Kapital yourself. I guess the big question is, even if you don't find it (and you won't) will you believe yourself?

A "distillation" is stupid. First, the entire premise of the quote is to say that he has some type of far-reaching vision to cover this situation. Sorry, but a "distillation" of views is an interpretations and interpretations are nothing more than taking what IS written and reading between the lines to fit what you want it to be. There is no fact there, only interpretation. That interpretation obviously wanted to show how "evil" the bailouts are and show that we are heading towards communism. That is interpretation with an agenda, a populist one that chest-beating Conservatives would love to have chanted over and over.

You were played for a fool and you only perpetuated a lie and fell for somebody's false agenda. Admit it and move on.

LOL. Are we still smarting over the criticism you've received about the bailouts? Get over it!

I don't know if I was snookered or not, but it is looking like the quote is probably not Marx's, which I said before you posted your juvenile rant.

The view on McArdle's blog is that the quote is a distillation of his views.



Have a nice day!

-Robert

 

[Deeko]

This quote is nothing like anything Marx would have said, even if he were in today's society. Your quote sounds more like a STRENGTHENING of the bourgeois, which is the exact opposite of what Marx envisions.

 

[BigDH01]

That quote is way to graceful to be Marx, at least from the translated Das Kapital that I read. It reads more like a dictionary.

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: halik
made up bullshit quote

Das Kapital
Only chapter 15 and 24 mentions technology when they're talking about producers.

This also further proves my thesis that the social is made up of idiots; i bet you got this form reddit or some similar idiocy.

This is normally where the Gamers would jump up and yell PWND, but I am pretty sure chess9 is not playing a game here, and has made an extremely good point. I happen to be a rightwinger, and indeed realize that I am not going to make as much on my investments with a lot of government regulation. As a pragmatic person, I also realize that in addition to the bankruptcy, high debt can lead to a type of slavery as exploitation is a natural function of capitalism.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: chess9

Originally posted by: zephyrprime
Yeah, this is fake. I've read das kapital too years ago and this just doesn't sound like something marx with his odd 19th century writing style (translated from german) would say.

Plus, look at this line: "to buy more and more of expensive goods, houses and technology". Nobody would talk about buying "technology" back in the 19th century. Might as well be saying "buy ipods" because that's how fake it sounds.

Actually, this notion of Marx not using the word 'technology' has been debunked by wiki.

However, after reading through some of Marx again, I suspect this quote is a modernized transubstantiation of sorts of Marx's views. It reflects his views, but PROBABLY isn't a quote by him. Having said that, no one has come forward to definitely say this quote is fake. There are only some people questioning the authenticity of it. Some suggest, as I say above, that the quote is a distillation of his thinking.

The authenticity of the quote is really a side issue to me, at any rate. But, have your fun....

-Robert

LOL. Nobody has refuted it? I see the same posts over and over on the internet, NOBODY can find this in Das Kapital, NOBODY. What do you need to refute it, a letter from God or Marx himself? Why don't you take a few days of fact checking yourself and read through Das Kapital yourself. I guess the big question is, even if you don't find it (and you won't) will you believe yourself?

A "distillation" is stupid. First, the entire premise of the quote is to say that he has some type of far-reaching vision to cover this situation. Sorry, but a "distillation" of views is an interpretations and interpretations are nothing more than taking what IS written and reading between the lines to fit what you want it to be. There is no fact there, only interpretation. That interpretation obviously wanted to show how "evil" the bailouts are and show that we are heading towards communism. That is interpretation with an agenda, a populist one that chest-beating Conservatives would love to have chanted over and over.

You were played for a fool and you only perpetuated a lie and fell for somebody's false agenda. Admit it and move on.

LOL. Are we still smarting over the criticism you've received about the bailouts? Get over it!

I don't know if I was snookered or not, but it is looking like the quote is probably not Marx's, which I said before you posted your juvenile rant.

The view on McArdle's blog is that the quote is a distillation of his views.



Have a nice day!

-Robert

Actually if anything the quote is a distillate of von Misses views probably crafted by some Ron Paul supporter. Marx's ideas had nothing to do with debt and credit...

Even my mom said that was horseshit and she has a degree in Marxism (one of the joys of growing up in a communist country...)

 

[squirrel dog]

If marx was such hot shit,why aren't we all speaking in Russian now?