Speaker /Amp Fact for the day

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
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Why is mismatching a weak amp and powerful speakers dangerous to your wallet?


Clipping causes the amp to put out damaging DC (direct current) to the speakers and eventually burns them up.


Your everyday home stereo 100W amp, although rated much higher, typically doesn't run at more than 5 to10 Watts RMS average. It may peak at 80 to 100 Watts, but the average RMS output is far lower than you'd think. But you don't get something for nothing. Let's face it, a race car goes faster than a passenger car because it has a ton more power. Same idea works for speakers. If you want to move a lot of air, as in a pro sound environment, you need a device (speaker) that is big enough and mechanically capable of moving that amount of air. Then, you need a certain amount of power (Wattage) to properly motivate that device. Big device, moving lots of air = lots of power.
And you also want "Headroom" Headroom is basically available power that you don't use most of the time. Then why pay for it? Well, as stated earlier, your home stereo may only average 10 Watts RMS, but on loud passages in the music, it may peak to its full 100 Watt potential. These peaks may only last fractions of a second but without that reserve power, the sound of your music would suffer terribly. .


So what that other 90 Watts you paid for does is prevent your amp from clipping (distorting) during peaks. Think of it as "sound insurance". Headroom is the reason you may see a sound engineer running an amp that seems much too powerful for the speakers. An experienced sound engineer knows that most speakers are blown due to a power amp running out of "clean" power and clipping and not from being "over-powered" with clean Wattage. I have heard it so many times: "why did my speakers blow?!? They can handle 600 Watts and I was only running a 200 Watt amp on them!!" What that person failed to realize was that by badly mismatching his amp and speakers, he ended up pushing the power amp so hard that it was constantly clipping. Clipping causes the amp to put out damaging DC (direct current) to the speakers and eventually burns them up. That is where the old myth that "you can under-power" a speaker comes from. You can't really under-power a speaker as long as the power is clean. But using a low powered amp to try and push high powered speakers will inevitably lead to clipping and damaged speakers. This doesn't mean you can just throw tons of clean power at your speakers and feel safe, it just means you have to think ahead when putting together your system. Don't go over-board or under-board. If you're going to run some 600 Watt mains, then use a quality amp that will deliver between 400 and 800 Watts at the speaker's rated impedance. Go on the high side if you think you will be really pushing the speakers hard so your amp will be able to handle the peaks without distorting. If your speakers will never see anything larger than a coffee-house, the lower powered amp will probably be fine. Just watch and listen for clipping.
So let's recap: You now know how to calculate your total impedance, you know that the best way to get more volume is to add more speakers, and you know how to properly match your amp and speakers so that you have sufficient headroom and prevent clipping. No matter what speakers and amp you use, always keep your eyes and ears alerted for signs of something being pushed too hard. There are usually warning signs long before something goes "boom". If it sounds crisp, clean and punchy, and not distorted, muffled and muddy, you're doing it right.
Now pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...

Later.
D.S


Link


Very interesting info. I was interested why testers had found that the Onkyo tx-sr600 only outputed about 30 watts/channel when driving 6 speakers. I guess its not bad after all. From my experience DTS was loud as hell..oh so beautiful through my Mirages.



P.S. For those that have the aformentioned reciever: Altough it is rated @ 80watts/channel in stereo, it actually hovers around 90:D


Happy Listening!



One question however......In what situation would you blow a speaker with two much wattage(a good speaker at that) and what exactly would happen? Would the system heat up etc?


I'm not talking about plugging a carver amp into computer speakers if you get my drift...I mean good speakers with just a little too much wattage....
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
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Amps wont put out DC. They put out a signal resembling DC. Try running a DC current through the internal components of an amp. It'll smoke, and fast.
And clipping doesnt kill the sub. See that part where it says

"An experienced sound engineer knows that most speakers are blown due to a power amp running out of "clean" power and clipping and not from being "over-powered" with clean Wattage. I have heard it so many times: "why did my speakers blow?!? They can handle 600 Watts and I was only running a 200 Watt amp on them!!" What that person failed to realize was that by badly mismatching his amp and speakers, he ended up pushing the power amp so hard that it was constantly clipping."

Well, clipping = more power. Clipping itself didnt kill the speaker. The extra power introduced by the clipping killed the speaker.

Otherwise, I tend to agree for the most part, I just dont like the assumption that the clipping itself killed the speaker.
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
Originally posted by: Shockwave
Amps wont put out DC. They put out a signal resembling DC. Try running a DC current through the internal components of an amp. It'll smoke, and fast.
And clipping doesnt kill the sub. See that part where it says

"An experienced sound engineer knows that most speakers are blown due to a power amp running out of "clean" power and clipping and not from being "over-powered" with clean Wattage. I have heard it so many times: "why did my speakers blow?!? They can handle 600 Watts and I was only running a 200 Watt amp on them!!" What that person failed to realize was that by badly mismatching his amp and speakers, he ended up pushing the power amp so hard that it was constantly clipping."

Well, clipping = more power. Clipping itself didnt kill the speaker. The extra power introduced by the clipping killed the speaker.

Otherwise, I tend to agree for the most part, I just dont like the assumption that the clipping itself killed the speaker.

interesting....
 

Shockwave

Banned
Sep 16, 2000
9,059
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Look into a Fouyer Analysis. (I think i spelled fouyer wrong) If you can find the right graphs, it'll show the harmonics introduced from clipping, which casues the extra power.
 

Trygve

Golden Member
Aug 1, 2001
1,428
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While the author's conclusions are more-or-less correct, his reasoning is wrong. Clipping does not put out DC and if it did, it wouldn't cause your speakers to blow up. (Putting a DC input into your amp won't blow it up either and, for that matter, I'd be surprised if there are any DC-coupled non-audiophile consumer-model amplifiers on the market.)

If you ever do a power spectrum of a musical signal, you'll typically find a whole lot of power in the lower octaves, less in the midrange, and surprisingly little in the highest frequencies. Speakers are designed accordingly: in a hypothetical design, you might have woofers capable of handling 200 watts, midranges capable of 40 watts, and tweeters that are only rated at 10 watts. For normal music, this works fine.

Once you start clipping, however, you create huge pulses of power in the frequency ranges handled by the tweeter. The total wattage going into the speakers hasn't changed much, but far more is being sent to the tweeters, which then burn out.
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
SO let's say I were to buy an ADCOM 200/watt/ch amp...what would happen to my Mirage FRX-5 150/CH speakers?


I have them running @ 90watt/ and they are awesome.....
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
Also, in this scenerio, do HK amps and similar-qaulity equipment always put out 45-watts?

It seems like they don't because of the properties of an amp....but what then is their minimum?



I ask about adcom and HK because I like their amps and may one day get one...actually, I saw a 5-channel 125/watt for $320 and nearly pissed my pants...why oh why didn't See that ad before I bought my reciever.....:|
 
Jan 31, 2002
40,819
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Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Also, in this scenerio, do HK amps and similar-qaulity equipment always put out 45-watts?

It seems like they don't because of the properties of an amp....but what then is their minimum?



I ask about adcom and HK because I like their amps and may one day get one...actually, I saw a 5-channel 125/watt for $320 and nearly pissed my pants...why oh why didn't See that ad before I bought my reciever.....:|

So buy it and ditch the old one. What kind of audio enthusiast do you call yourself? :disgust:

- M4H
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire
Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Also, in this scenerio, do HK amps and similar-qaulity equipment always put out 45-watts?

It seems like they don't because of the properties of an amp....but what then is their minimum?



I ask about adcom and HK because I like their amps and may one day get one...actually, I saw a 5-channel 125/watt for $320 and nearly pissed my pants...why oh why didn't See that ad before I bought my reciever.....:|

So buy it and ditch the old one. What kind of audio enthusiast do you call yourself? :disgust:

- M4H

A poor one....:(


I spend my money on a decent reciever....Onkyo SR-600
I spend my money on really good speakers..Mirage FRX-5's
I spend my money on a nice 100-400Watts 10' subwoofer
I run out of money...


I think...


I finally use some POS Technics floorstanders for my rears and the right speaker from my dad's semi-POS mini AIWA thingy for the center....



Multichannel rocks, but let's just say that I keep the volume to THOSE speakers very low....so I don't have to hear their POS tweeters 'BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZing" away....


Let's just say I perfer to listen to source in stereo...with my 400WATT Athena sub
:cool:


Damn I should have got that amp. I am using a hercules Fortissimo III for optical out but imagine a DELTA DIO...


6-FRIGGEN channel RCA out with SN ratios through the roof feeding to a 125WATT/Channel 5 channel adcom with soo much money to spare...


:confused:
 

Trygve

Golden Member
Aug 1, 2001
1,428
9
0
Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Also, in this scenerio, do HK amps and similar-qaulity equipment always put out 45-watts?

If the volume is turned all the way down, they shouldn't be putting out anything, so the output can vary anywhere from 0 to the rated power of the amp at your speakers' impedance (most home audio amps give the specs at 8 ohms; the Mirages are, but I've had speakers that varied from 1 to 16 ohms).
 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
Originally posted by: Trygve
Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Also, in this scenerio, do HK amps and similar-qaulity equipment always put out 45-watts?

If the volume is turned all the way down, they shouldn't be putting out anything, so the output can vary anywhere from 0 to the rated power of the amp at your speakers' impedance (most home audio amps give the specs at 8 ohms; the Mirages are, but I've had speakers that varied from 1 to 16 ohms).

I guess i've been looking at amps in more of a best-buy way than in a factual, or even common sense way.


 

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81

Goosemaster

Lifer
Apr 10, 2001
48,775
3
81
Originally posted by: Goosemaster


imagine a DELTA DIO...


6-FRIGGEN channel RCA out with SN ratios through the roof feeding to a 125WATT/Channel 5 channel adcom with soo much money to spare...
.


dammnit...one day the B&W will arrive at my doorstep.....