The Spanish government withdrew troops because there was a new election, not because of the Madrid bombing. And it makes sense they still have troops in Afghanistan. The Spanish people support that effort, but not the Iraqi one. That's how democracy works.
The Spanish government withdrew troops because there was a new election, not because of the Madrid bombing. And it makes sense they still have troops in Afghanistan. The Spanish people support that effort, but not the Iraqi one. That's how democracy works.
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Let's revisit my statement that kicked this whole exchange off:
Do you remember when in Laden extended a "truce" offer to the EU? That's what my comment was in regards to anyway, not the videotapes that were found.
Well if you start from a point of view that anyone who disagrees with Bush and his Iraqi policy, are cowtowing to the terrorists, then I could see how you could misinterpret Spain's actions, and think their leaving Iraq and staying in Afghanistan is illogical and fruitless.
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I fail to see how my posts had anything whatsoever to do with Bush and his Iraq policy. It was about appeasement of terrorists and the apparent failure of it. Spain could withdraw troops from Afghanistan today as well and they'd still be targeted by al Qaeda because al Qaeda, and many other fundamentalist Muslim groups, believe that Andalusia is still part and parcel of al-Islam. They're still pissed about the Moors being booted out of Spain over 500 years ago. So all this crap to Spain about withdrawing troops from Muslim lands is just that, crap.
I was referring to the video made on March 27th by the terrorists responsible for the Madrid bombing.
CBS News
...three hooded men wearing belts loaded with dynamite cartridges threaten more attacks against Spain unless it withdraws its troops from Afghanistan. Those three are now believed to have been ringleaders of the March 11 bombing cell ...
I felt I should point out the fallacy in your statement since you tried to imply that Spain backed away from the war on terror, yet is still being threatened ~ which is a common misconception among war supporters. I don't remember anybody saying that "withdrawing from Iraq was supposed to get Spain a pass from the Islamifascists"; you made that up.
Now what was it were you saying about Americans? If I get no response from you, I'll understand completely.
There are rumors around the world that the majority of Americans confuse Iraq and Afghanistan, some say majority of Americans wouldn't be able to point these countries on the map. I'm not implying that Americans are dim, rather that they don't care. Honestly, I didn't suspect you belonged to that uninformed group ~ it was barely a crack at you that I could not resist
Originally posted by: Siwy
There are rumors around the world that the majority of Americans confuse Iraq and Afghanistan, some say majority of Americans wouldn't be able to point these countries on the map. I'm not implying that Americans are dim, rather that they don't care. Honestly, I didn't suspect you belonged to that uninformed group ~ it was barely a crack at you that I could not resist
These aren't rumors. Unfortunately it's true. It's what happens when you crap on education for so many years.
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Actually, it was no fallacy since my statement was a reference to bin Laden's remark and not the Spanish bombers. bin Laden offered a truce to EU nations that withdrew troops from Islamic lands.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/...f/04/15/binladen.tape/
In the tape he specifically mentions the Madrid bombings.
Now what was it were you saying about Americans? If I get no response from you, I'll understand completely.
There are rumors around the world that the majority of Americans confuse Iraq and Afghanistan, some say majority of Americans wouldn't be able to point these countries on the map. I'm not implying that Americans are dim, rather that they don't care. Honestly, I didn't suspect you belonged to that uninformed group ~ it was barely a crack at you that I could not resist
[/quote]I understand that's a rumor, a misinformed one. Guess which team won the most recent World Geography Championships?
Hint
Guess who won it the time before, and the time before that?
Don't believe every rumor you hear.
Of course, that's the best of the best being represented, but studies have shown that geographical ignorance is not the sole domain of the US. There are ignorant people everywhere in the world, not just here.
Your original statement was a fallacy, no matter which tape you were thinking of. Bin Laden (nor any other terrorist) never announced that "withdrawing from Iraq" would result in truce or non-aggression with European countries. Like it's indicated in the link you posted above bin Laden was referring to attacks on Muslims in general not Iraq itself.
Since Spain did not back away from fighting terrorists in Afghanistan as well as at home, your original assertion is unfounded.
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Well, to be perfectly frank, you claimed Afghanistan was the reason (It's not, according to your own standard.) and you misinterpreted my remark, so your assertion is quite unfounded as well. However, if it sooths your pedantic soul I will edit the OP, if it means that much to you.
To be honest I would really like to see you post the edited version of your original statement, just to see what you come up with and if it has any resemblance to the original point you were trying to make.
And ..."If I get no response from you, I'll understand completely."
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Done. Notice I didn't edit the winky. It's been there all along. "Originally posted by: Siwy
To be honest I would really like to see you post the edited version of your original statement, just to see what you come up with and if it has any resemblance to the original point you were trying to make.
And ..."If I get no response from you, I'll understand completely."
"Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6282532/
I thought withdrawing from Iraq would have appeased the Islamifascists somewhat?
What's going on with this world lately? You can't even appease a terrorist anymore.
Your question is loaded. Nobody tried to appease any islamists. The Spanish people were always opposed to the war in Iraq. When they had a chance to change governments, they did so. (Sounds like you're happy they were plotting against Spain. Sick.)
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I see you just couldn't resist planting a highly speculative (and, once again, off the mark) Infohawk dig in at the end. Typical. Such behavior is why so many keep asking you you're age, btw. It's odd that you refuse to respond to that question.
Try again:
Your question is loaded. Nobody tried to appease any islamists. The Spanish people were always opposed to the war in Iraq. When they had a chance to change governments, they did so.
(PS I don't care if people keep asking my age. I had people begging me to enter the pics and age thread and since I won't participate they want to call me a child. If it makes you happy to imagine me as a 4th grader, go for it. I could care less. It's irrelevant to my arguments. If you want to go off-topic to avoid reponding to my post again, I'll understand. It's hard to support baseless ideas).
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Your question is loaded. Nobody tried to appease any islamists. The Spanish people were always opposed to the war in Iraq. When they had a chance to change governments, they did so.
If you're tired go to sleep and try and respond with something cogent tomorrow. Your OP is flawed.
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Uh huh. My OP is flawed while you sling around the wild generalization that "nobody tried to appease the islamists." Your own statement is flawed and, as seems to be de riguer for you, assumptive and speculative. You can't possibly know that "nobody" felt that way. As a mater of fact, it can be relatively safely assumed that some Spanish people did in fact believe that withdrawing from Iraq would help prevent any further al Qaeda attacks, far more than "nobody" believed that at all as is your claim. :roll:
Who gives a sh!it what some Spanish people might have been thinking. Obviously nobody here is able to read minds and that isn't even in question.
Geez you people go way off point to try to make a point and loose all semblance of meaning. It's freaking sick to read in every other thread.
Not to mention stupid. Then again this is the P&N forum where a simple comment by someone can net you a post stalker who follows you around from thread to thread and tries to trash you.
Sorry it's just really pathetic to see a half decent discussion turn into something like this.
bah...
Let me put it this way since you want to nitpick. Most Spanish people weren't looking to appease. You made the suggestion they were trying to appease. You haven't shown this. I don't know where you got your info but the Spanish (again most) expressed their distaste of the ruling party after they tried to cover up the bombing. You want to believe it was that they were scared of the muslims when most accounts show that they were angry at their government. Also, the withdrawal from Iraq always had popular support among the Spanish. You want to believe they suddenly changed their mind after the attacks when the evidence shows that the opposition party and the majority were opposed to Iraq in the first place.
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Oh. Now it's "most" and "nitpicking?" Before it was "nobody." What next? "Some?"
I guarantee you more than a few Spaniards were questioning why al Qaeda would attack again. I'm pretty sure they were also questioning if they made the right decision by voting in a new candidate to pull troops out of Iraq after this plot was uncovered. I'd love to see a poll from Spain right now on this subject.
No. It's not going to change to "some." Again, you're making the claim about Spaniards so it's up to you to have proof for what you're saying with polls. There are definitely polls that show they were always against their troops in Iraq. That alone suggests they weren't appeasing but voting how they wanted to.
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WTF? This does have to do with Spain and its people, just in case you didn't notice.
As the thread starter, I agree with you.
Welcome to ATP&N.
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I'll provide proof as soon as you back up your claim about "nobody." You made it first so it's a fair request.
Also, I didn't ask for old polls, I asked about a poll NOW, after the attempted plot was interdicted. That would be the relevant poll to this thread.
I'm not going to add to the burial of this thread by arguing a pointless point.
Sometimes I wonder if people actually remember why they got into a discussion in the first place.
Ahh now I remember. Be vague to hide a motive. Never fails.
umbrella39
Lifer
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