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Space Shuttle Columbia, 7 astronauts Lost
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PraetorianGuards
Golden Member
This is indeed truly sad. My prayers are with the families of the astronauts. They risked their lives to further humanity - and there's nothing more noble than that.
dmcowen674
No Lifer
"clearly see a abnormal blast of flames on the left wing"
Dave, when I zoom that to 10X I see what looks like flames above the left wing!
Yes, People are trying to say that is a reflection from below. I don't think so. You don't see that on any other Shuttle launches.
Then moving TV footage showed material (Most likely Thermal tiles) falling off the Wing.
They should've docked with the ISS, sent another Shuttle up until they could figure out how to fix Tiles in Space.
Clearly incompetence. Those 7 people trusted the people at NASA and they were let down in the ultimate way.
"Everything Man makes breaks."
We have to accept that and deal with that properly, they didn't in this case and paid for it dearly. 🙁
Unfortunately, docking with the ISS would have been impossible as Columbia was not fitted with the ISS docking module for this flight.
Even EVA's to explore possible damage to the under side of Columbia's left wing were impossible since no EVA's had been planned for the mission and thus the proper equipment was not on board to allow a crew member to leave the ship and return.
Clearly NASA has some rethinking to do.
They need to have more people asking "What's the worst that can happen, and how do we prepare for it?" kinds of questions.
One of the other Shuttle astronauts came to our elementary school a few years ago and after his presentation he took questions from the kids, then he asked if any of the parents or staff had questions. I got to ask one and it was somthing like this: What is the importance & role of Duct Tape in shuttle missions.
His answer was something like: "I wouldn't go into space without it. We take 6 big rolls of the really good duct tape and it all gets used up every mission. We wish we could bring more than 6 rolls but that's all they will allow."
They have a lot of very highly traind, educated and intelligent people involved with the program. They need to use them better.
I remember the days after the Challenger exploded when there was talk about making the shuttle safer and creating some way for them to disengage from the SRB's in cases like this etc...
Seventeen years of safe missions later they clearly have some more work to do.
If escape modules had been invented and installed, did the Columbia crew have time to get into such things and somehow get away from a flaming meteor flying at over 200,000 feet at 12,500 mph?
Has the idea of escape modules been discussed at NASA? Could we invent such a thing to be integrated into the existing shuttles? I don't know. Is it worth exploring?
They need to have more people asking "What's the worst that can happen, and how do we prepare for it?" kinds of questions.
One of the other Shuttle astronauts came to our elementary school a few years ago and after his presentation he took questions from the kids, then he asked if any of the parents or staff had questions. I got to ask one and it was somthing like this: What is the importance & role of Duct Tape in shuttle missions.
His answer was something like: "I wouldn't go into space without it. We take 6 big rolls of the really good duct tape and it all gets used up every mission. We wish we could bring more than 6 rolls but that's all they will allow."
They have a lot of very highly traind, educated and intelligent people involved with the program. They need to use them better.
I remember the days after the Challenger exploded when there was talk about making the shuttle safer and creating some way for them to disengage from the SRB's in cases like this etc...
Seventeen years of safe missions later they clearly have some more work to do.
If escape modules had been invented and installed, did the Columbia crew have time to get into such things and somehow get away from a flaming meteor flying at over 200,000 feet at 12,500 mph?
Has the idea of escape modules been discussed at NASA? Could we invent such a thing to be integrated into the existing shuttles? I don't know. Is it worth exploring?
Assimilator1
Elite Member
Couldn't the Colombia have 'hovered' near the ISS & have some people from there with EVA's checking it out?
Smokeball
You link doesn't work for me
dmcowen674
No Lifer
and they could've gotten another shuttle up there in time and left the disabled bird up there tethered somehow to the ISS until they can send up a solution to repair Tiles in space.
I know could of, should of and would of does nothing as they will never be back but Man never learns.
Chipster22
Senior member
Disasters like this are never easy to take, but for now I don't blame NASA for anything. I think it is just a sign of the danger involved in pushing the envelope in this fallen world.
From what I've been reading and hearing some of the solutions proposed by the press and general public aren't as simple and easy as they first appear. I've heard docking with ISS would not have been possible because Columbia was not equipped with the docking mechanisms on this mission. Not only that, but it wasn't even in the same orbit as the Space Station.
Fixing the tiles in space was studied way back when the Shuttle was being designed in the 70's and rejected as completely impractical. Apparently it would be extremely difficult and dangerous for astronauts to spacewalk to the underside of the Shuttle. Nothing was designed for spacewalkers down there apparently.
My hope is that NASA will be able to move on to the next generation of spacecraft soon. It seems that we could design something better and cheaper than what was designed 30 years ago, but then again, I'm not one with firsthand knowledge of what's involved.
From what I've been reading and hearing some of the solutions proposed by the press and general public aren't as simple and easy as they first appear. I've heard docking with ISS would not have been possible because Columbia was not equipped with the docking mechanisms on this mission. Not only that, but it wasn't even in the same orbit as the Space Station.
Fixing the tiles in space was studied way back when the Shuttle was being designed in the 70's and rejected as completely impractical. Apparently it would be extremely difficult and dangerous for astronauts to spacewalk to the underside of the Shuttle. Nothing was designed for spacewalkers down there apparently.
My hope is that NASA will be able to move on to the next generation of spacecraft soon. It seems that we could design something better and cheaper than what was designed 30 years ago, but then again, I'm not one with firsthand knowledge of what's involved.
I heard an ex NASA exec being interviewed last night who was basically forced to retire due to his urgings to build escape modules within the shuttle. He has a plan that would work and the existing shuttles could be fitted with the modules. He decided he would have more impact on the outside than he could from within NASA since those in power didn't merely not want to listen but they actively tried to kill his career for pushing the idea.
An answer this obvious had to have been thought of before, however those in power at NASA have their reasons for not going down that road.
The families and friends of STS - 107 are still in my thoughts and prayers.
An answer this obvious had to have been thought of before, however those in power at NASA have their reasons for not going down that road.
The families and friends of STS - 107 are still in my thoughts and prayers.
There is NO way an escape module could have helped the astronauts on this flight or on Challenger. No way! The only possible thing that might work is if the forward crew compartment could be jettisoned from the rest of the ship. I don't think this would be too feasible either for the structural integrity of the shuttle.
Why wouldn't escape modules have helped? The accident happened so quickly (both shuttle accidents) that the crew had virtually no time to react. No SOS, no Mayday no nothing.
Why wouldn't escape modules have helped? The accident happened so quickly (both shuttle accidents) that the crew had virtually no time to react. No SOS, no Mayday no nothing.
It would appear that it would have been impossible for Columbia to maneuver close to the ISS. Columbia was on an orbit about 100 miles lower than the ISS and did not have nearly enough fuel aboard to raise its orbit high enough to get anywhere near the space station.
They had enough consumables aboard Columbia to last another three to five days. Of course, they would've immediately began rationing and probably been able to stretch that out considerably.
The next shuttle closest to launching was Atlantis, I believe, and it was still in the vehicle assembly building. I think I heard it said that it was to be moved to the launch pad sometime this week anyway for its March launch, but I can't even make a guess as to how quickly they could have gotten her ready for launching in an emergency.
Sadly, if it was the debris that caused enough damage to the wing during ascent, they were most likely doomed before they even got into orbit considering how Columbia was configured for STS-107. So very, very sad...
Assimilator1
Elite Member
How about an automatically triggerd capsule? say when fuel temps=xxxC then eject capsule
It could be done, there are life safety systems that have redundant checks & balances but the computers could do it.
Without questions like these there will be no improvements, something new needs to be done - doing the "same old thing" will only bring more disaster considering the aging fleet of shuttles we are using.
Without questions like these there will be no improvements, something new needs to be done - doing the "same old thing" will only bring more disaster considering the aging fleet of shuttles we are using.
dmcowen674
No Lifer
Here is the picture that I saw early on that they are now focusing on. It clearly shows a huge chunk of debris striking the wing, so big that is causes the flame wash of the boosters to change trajectory briefly. It even looks like you can see a couple of the white tiles getting knocked off the front top of the wing. That would cause a zipper chain reaction of the rest of the tiles getting stripped off on re-entry.
That event clearly shows they should've never tried bringing that bird back down in that condition.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/867336.asp?0cv=CA01&cp1=1
That event clearly shows they should've never tried bringing that bird back down in that condition.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/867336.asp?0cv=CA01&cp1=1
Assimilator1
Elite Member
You don't relie on 1 sensor!😛
Chipster22
Senior member
But would ejection pods work at 12000+ MPH? Could they be heat shielded and still be practical? Wouldn't there be an enormous amount of turbulance and stress that would kill a human if ejected?
The way I'm looking at it is that NASA is doing very technically challenging work and it is to their credit that accidents like this have been so rare.
The way I'm looking at it is that NASA is doing very technically challenging work and it is to their credit that accidents like this have been so rare.
Assimilator1
Elite Member
Fair point
ViRGE
Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Originally posted by: Assimilator1
You don't relie on 1 sensor!😛,also you could program it so that it would not activeate when there is no atmosphere detected.
I'm not saying you rely on 1 and only one sensor, as much as I'm just trying to make a point. Basicially, it adds another thing that can go wrong durring a re-entry; the accidental ejection of the crew.
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