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South Dakota Moves to Legalize Killing Abortion Providers

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jonks said:
They're already wide open. The mantra is "Legal, safe and RARE" for a reason. It's well known that it's not pretty, and called by many a necessary evil. I've never met anyone "pro-abortion".

That doesn't change the requirement that women must have the right, for a reasonable time, to control their bodies completely.
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I bet there has been ~4 people in this history of this country which actually said 'RARE' in their manta. Many places like planned parenthood actively encourage abortion when people might be convinced otherwise. Why? $$$$
 
irishScott said:
Sure. Right after you show me a case where someone kills an abortion doctor and gets off scott free.
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That's not what this legislation is trying to correct. When legislation is being considered to right a wrong, a reasonable expectation is that the wrong is happening or has happened. Since this legislation in SD is about pregnant women, show me the pregnant women convicted of homicide for defending herself from an attacker. Absent that, this legislation in SD is at best unnecessary.. and unnecessary legislation is never a good thing.
 
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Doc Savage Fan said:
I totally disagree with you...abortion is highly entenched in our culture and is now considered a "right" by an ever-increasing segment.
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Entrenched as in generally legal, yes, but not entrenched as universally acceptable or an automatically used option when faced with an unwanted pregnancy.

But don't worry zsdersw...the pro-lifers will never be able to shake up this "trend" you speak of...the pro-abortion crowd has won.
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I'm glad that society is continuing its advancement on this issue; that more and more often we do not need a law to tell us not to have abortions. Everyone else should be glad about that, too.. but that's not something that anti-abortionists will open their eyes to.
 
zsdersw said:
Entrenched as in generally legal, yes, but not entrenched as universally acceptable or an automatically used option when faced with an unwanted pregnancy.

I'm glad that society is continuing its advancement on this issue; that more and more often we do not need a law to tell us not to have abortions. Everyone else should be glad about that, too.. but that's not something that anti-abortionists will open their eyes to.
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Don't worry...your Brave New World is in it's infancy. But please grant me a little tolerance for not focusing only on the benefits of abortion and sharing your joy. It's not in me to turn a blind eye to the collateral damage of abortion where thousands of human beings are treated like garbage when things don't go as intended...sorry, but I find it difficult to be "glad".
 
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Doc Savage Fan said:
Don't worry...your Brave New World is in it's infancy. But please grant me a little tolerance for not focusing only on the benefits of abortion and sharing your joy. It's not in me to turn a blind eye to the collateral damage of abortion where thousands of human beings are treated like garbage when things don't go as intended...sorry, but I find it difficult to be "glad".
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I'm no more focusing only on the "benefits" (inaccurate term for you to select, by the way) of abortion than you are focusing only on the "collateral damage".
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
Yeah...just minor details. 🙄
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Where has anyone in this thread said any of the incidents you refer to aren't horrific? 🙄

Get a grip.

The fact remains that abortions are becoming fewer and fewer even though they're generally legal. If you can't be glad about at least that, then you're hardly one to cry about people not opening their eyes.
 
zsdersw said:
Where has anyone in this thread said any of the incidents you refer to aren't horrific? 🙄

Get a grip.

The fact remains that abortions are becoming fewer and fewer even though they're generally legal. If you can't be glad about at least that, then you're hardly one to cry about people not opening their eyes.
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Don't twist my words...I never said that anyone thought these incidents weren't horrific.

As far as facts are concerned this study shows that abortion activity has remained relatively constant at 1.5 to 1.2mm a year since 1977. Maybe you find a very slight decline over the past 20 years as something to be glad about...but please forgive me if I don't share your viewpoint.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/4304111.pdf
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
Don't twist my words...I never said that anyone thought these incidents weren't horrific.
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Then don't say we're turning a blind eye to them.

As far as facts are concerned this study shows that abortion activity has remained relatively constant at 1.5 to 1.2mm a year since 1977. Maybe you find a very slight decline over the past 20 years as something to be glad about...but please forgive me if I don't share your viewpoint.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/4304111.pdf
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http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/graphusabrate.html

It's not just a "very slight decline"; any decline in an activity that is legal over a term of decades suggests a social trend. A "stall" in the decline, that happened between 2005 and 2008 isn't any particular cause for concern, either... because these stalls have happened before (late 1980s), yet the long-term trend is still toward fewer and fewer abortions.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/11/AR2011011107331.html

Always-fluctuating factors like the economy and the ebb/flow of education and contraception efforts play a role in these snapshots of a couple years of abortion statistics, too.
 
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zsdersw said:
Then don't say we're turning a blind eye to them.
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Tell that to jonks and the millions like him who have no clue as to what is going on.

BTW...the data you cited is incomplete and likely significantly underreported especially from 2002 to present. The study I posted is much more likely to be relatively accurate.
 
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Doc Savage Fan said:
Tell that to jonks and the millions like him who have no clue as to what is going on.
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Ah, yes... the infamous "major crime no one knows about" cry. Forgive me if I don't buy your sensational claim that "millions" don't have a clue.

BTW...the data you cited is incomplete and likely significantly underreported expecially from 2002 to present. The study I posted is much more likely to be relatively accurate.
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Says who?
 
zsdersw said:
Ah, yes... the infamous "major crime no one knows about" cry. Forgive me if I don't buy your sensational claim that "millions" don't have a clue.
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Your insensitivity on this issue speaks volumes.

zsdersw said:
Says who?
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This is not hard. Look the first link you posted (graph) and look at the data in your 2nd link as well as the data in my link...now try to reconcile this with your pretty graph. Also, read the sources in your 2nd link and the related footnotes. But believe what you want to believe...it's easier that way.
 
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Doc Savage Fan said:
Tell that to jonks and the millions like him who have no clue as to what is going on.
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Please, clue me in. According to you it is routine across the country for fetuses to be birthed live and then killed? That's about on par with claiming anti-abortion legislators want to legalize killing abortion docs.
 
jonks said:
Please, clue me in. According to you it is routine across the country for fetuses to be birthed live and then killed? That's about on par with claiming anti-abortion legislators want to legalize killing abortion docs.
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Normally I would make the effort...but I really don't have the stomach for it anymore as this shit haunts me. It's ugly...really ugly stuff. If you want to know I suggest that you make an effort to find out.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
Your insensitivity on this issue speaks volumes.
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Your oversensitivity on this issue speaks volumes.

This is not hard. Look the first link you posted (graph) and look at the data in your 2nd link as well as the data in my link...now try to reconcile this with your pretty graph. Also, read the sources in your 2nd link and the related footnotes.
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Already did... but it doesn't prove how the data is so much different from what you posted. In fact, it looks like a lot of the data in my first link was derived from your link.

But believe what you want to believe...it's easier that way.
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.. says the pot to the kettle.
 
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zsdersw said:
All it takes is one outrageous claim following another outrageous claim, huh?
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Considering you posted that the law was being changed to make it legal to murder abortion clinic workers, instead of just a rewording to clarify people's right to defend an unborn child as they would an adult... Just so you can sling mud at social conservatives...

I'd say you should have shut up and let the matter drop when you were called on your own outrageous claims several pages ago.
 
zsdersw said:
Good for you.



I make no apologies for "slinging mud" at social conservatives.
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Then equally you have no right to complain or get upset when someone throws your own lies and stupidity back in your face. You tried to pull a fast one, and got called on it.

So accept your Yellow Card, and move to a different position on the field. Nobody said you can't stop playing. Just that you lost this one.
 
Your argument with Doc Savage directly contradicts your statement.


But if you wish to let the illusion ride... whatever. This is P&N, and the purpose of this forum's existence is for people to (rather mindlessly, IMHO) scream about <whatever topic> they don't like.
 
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