Source, justice department unlikley to prosecute over torture.

[Lemon law]

Its all over the news, the justice department looks to be backing away from prosecuting former GWB officials who provided the stinking thinking justification for torture policies.

But certain other sanctions like slap on wrist loss law license are possible.

An outrage IMHO.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05...tics/06inquire.html?hp

Time alone will tell if congress, other entities inside the USA, or external foreign sources will throw monkey wrenches and go ahead and charge these rascals with the crimes they committed.

Edit in, link now hopefully fixed.

 

[GenHoth]

They wont

 

[OrByte]

Ummm I was hoping Attorney Yoo would see some disciplinary action out of all of this.

I think he is most deserving.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[Lemon law]

I certainly hope you end up wrong GenHolt in saying, "They wont".

But even then I wonder if the USA is the proper venue, its really a matter of international war crimes, and their prosecution would be better handled by bodies like the Hague. I for one would not lift a finger to prevent their extradition to a court that specializes in handling their types of crimes.

And in many ways, it would be the best way to handle the matter.

 

[CanOWorms]

The problem of having an international organization such as the ICC (which I'm assuming you're referring to with the Hague) is that it itself is a crime against humanity run by people perpetrating crimes against humanity.

Also, it seems that many people imprisoned there die mysterious deaths.

 

[ProfJohn]

Link is broke, but perhaps they are afraid they might lose the case.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Link is broke, but perhaps they are afraid they might lose the case.

Sorry about the link PJ, but I strongly suspect that you are wrong about losing the case thing.

Its more likely, the Holder and Obama, with all that is on their plate right now is reluctant to tackle such a politically partisan and politically explosive issue at this time.

Which is why punting it to the Hague may be that better idea. They may indeed welcome sending the issue to the Hague because it would get them off the hook.

Like I said before and I don't know about you, but I would not be disturbed in the least or lift a finger to prevent it if those rats are sent to the Hague to stand trial for their crimes.

Edit in, link now hopefully fixed.

Here it is again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05...tics/06inquire.html?hp

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
The problem of having an international organization such as the ICC (which I'm assuming you're referring to with the Hague) is that it itself is a crime against humanity run by people perpetrating crimes against humanity.

Also, it seems that many people imprisoned there die mysterious deaths.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CANoWorms, that is a pretty outrageous statement to make without an iota of supporting argument. I just might buy your argument if you can support it, but it sounds more like you are simply FOS.

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Link is broke, but perhaps they are afraid they might lose the case.

Sorry about the link PJ, but I strongly suspect that you are wrong about losing the case thing.

Its more likely, the Holder and Obama, with all that is on their plate right now is reluctant to tackle such a politically partisan and politically explosive issue at this time.

Which is why punting it to the Hague may be that better idea. They may indeed welcome sending the issue to the Hague because it would get them off the hook.

Like I said before and I don't know about you, but I would not be disturbed in the least or lift a finger to prevent it if those rats are sent to the Hague to stand trial for their crimes.

Edit in, link now hopefully fixed.

Here it is again.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05...tics/06inquire.html?hp

As much as I agree that the turn towards the usage of torture (or previously unacceptable / banned interrogation techniques) is detestable, and that it should not be repeated under any conditions, I think this may be the wisest move.

Pursuing this would take considerable time and resources, and would be a firestorm of shit-slinging between the various partisans, and would utterly derail the ability of our rather dysfunctional leaders to do even a mediocre job leading us forward through serious problems facing our nation at this time.

The right thing to do is to stop the practice (done), and hopefully ensure through legislation and oversight that it never happens again (we'll see).

If it had been a widespread issue where many innocent persons were subjected to this, I would be much more vocal about pursuing significant criminal prosecution, but as it is, it was thankfully both limited and focused upon genuinely despicable targets. I'm not making excuses, and I loathe the lowering of our standards, but that's how I see it.

 

[theflyingpig]

Anyone who believes there will be prosecution for torture is a fool, and should be treated like one. No one in power will do anything about this. Only fools will. The Obama administration wants this to go away as quickly as possible. A trial will drag this out for years, therefore they will sweep this under the rug as quickly as possible. Everyone knows this.

 

[ProfJohn]

An internal Justice Department inquiry into the conduct of Bush administration lawyers who wrote secret memorandums authorizing brutal interrogations has concluded that the authors committed serious lapses of judgment but should not be criminally prosecuted, according to government officials briefed on a draft of the findings.

In other words they can't win because they most likely can't make a criminal case out of it.

"serious lapses of judgment" is a long ways from criminal intent.

 

[Lemon law]

PJ is essentially asserting by saying, ""serious lapses of judgment" is a long ways from criminal intent."

Its very much like saying the bank robber had serious lapses in judgment. What has happened to that truism, if you do the crime, better be prepared to do the time?

They knew exactly what they were doing, make no mistake about that.

 

[ericlp]

Ah well. It's still not over I think more evidence will come out of the woodwork and maybe Rice or Cheney will get wrapped up in a lie and start to spill out the real truth. So, there is still hope. If enough people turn the screws on this something will happen. We shall see and time will tell.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
The problem of having an international organization such as the ICC (which I'm assuming you're referring to with the Hague) is that it itself is a crime against humanity run by people perpetrating crimes against humanity.

Also, it seems that many people imprisoned there die mysterious deaths.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CANoWorms, that is a pretty outrageous statement to make without an iota of supporting argument. I just might buy your argument if you can support it, but it sounds more like you are simply FOS.

Just going through Wikipedia quickly, I can find that Slavko Dokmanovi, Milosevic, Mehmed Alagic, Milan Babic, Milan Kovacevic (Text) died in interesting circumstances. There is an unsually high number of deaths associated with the ICC and its detention facilities. There are very few prisoners and many deaths. The percentage is shocking for a supposedly first-world center.

The ICC is based in the Hague which is a city in the Netherlands. The same country which HONORED the Dutch soldiers who participated in the Srebrenica genocide. Where is the justice?

Please stop with your holocaust denial.

Sending this to the ICC would be the ultimate joke.

 

[Lemon law]

accidental double post

 

[Lemon law]

CanoWorms, that link is totally unconvincing. You can't make a holocaust case out of that, even if you ask me to admit no set of human beings are perfect.

Maybe you require space aliens to do the judging. Now if you can convince me that Hague officials murdered people, you might have something, thus far you are 2 for 2 on FOS.

Tell me again, what international body should judge them, failing the Hague, maybe you wants the GOP.

And in some ways your argument is similar with the US dilemma, we are dealing with a basically moral set of people in both nations, but for the Dutch, a certain set of military officers looked the other way before war crimes started.

And no I do not buy collective guilt, I am on record speaking out against GWB&co. and still am.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
CanoWorms, that link is totally unconvincing. You can't make a holocaust case out of that, even if you ask me to admit no set of human beings are perfect.

Maybe you require space aliens to do the judging. Now if you can convince me that Hague officials murdered people, you might have something, thus far you are 2 for 2 on FOS.

Tell me again, what international body should judge them, failing the Hague, maybe you wants the GOP.

The testimony of witnesses, photos of the Dutch commander drinking with war criminals, Dutch soldiers to turning equipment to war criminals for use in a genocide, etc. is not enough? Europhiles will never admit the horror. The survivors are still looking for justice, trying to sue the Dutch government and the UN for their actions in the genocide. Stop denying their holocaust. It is sickening to see far-right revisionism.

It's exactly why the ICC is viewed as a colonialistic tool against those deemed undesirables.

All I am saying is that if it is to go to an international trial, it should be done by an organization that is not organized by war criminals themselves. Also, there will be a long queue of trials before it perpetrated by other first-world national citizens. However, it seems that international justice is only used against those deemed to be undesirables.

 

[Lemon law]

You are still copping out, you have not yet named an international body to try those war criminals.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Lemon law

but for the Dutch, a certain set of military officers looked the other way before war crimes started.

NO. Study the history before you deny atrocities. Witnesses and survivors of the genocide saw Dutch soldiers participate.

And no I do not buy collective guilt, I am on record speaking out against GWB&co. and still am.

Neither am I.

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
You are still copping out, you have not yet named an international body to try those war criminals.

Sorry, I don't see where I am required to name an international body to try any accused person. You are the one to bring up international organizations. I am simply posting opposition to having an organization such as the ICC or any international organization composed of other governments harboring war criminals.

Also, I question whether Yoo would be able to receive a fair trial in an international court given his ethnicity. Also the same concerns with Bybee given his Mormon background.

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
You are still copping out, you have not yet named an international body to try those war criminals.

it's just another Canoworms trolling thread, don't bother

 

[Corn]

I posted the following in another discussion, but I'll repeat it here because I'm a dick.

I believe I predicted some months back that no prosecution of Bush would ever take place. Anyone who suggests that the Obama and his Justice Dept is too busy to prosectute what most of the liberal morons believe to be a slam dunk case is as absurd as it is amusing. Obama is not going to prosecute because he's gonna torture if he hasn't already done so. I'm sure he's already regretting the release of the so-called torture memos because even though he's a lefty, he's not a complete idiot. He knows he's a 1 term President and payback is a bitch.

Silly liberals.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Corn
I posted the following in another discussion, but I'll repeat it here because I'm a dick.

I believe I predicted some months back that no prosecution of Bush would ever take place. Anyone who suggests that the Obama and his Justice Dept is too busy to prosectute what most of the liberal morons believe to be a slam dunk case is as absurd as it is amusing. Obama is not going to prosecute because he's gonna torture if he hasn't already done so. I'm sure he's already regretting the release of the so-called torture memos because even though he's a lefty, he's not a complete idiot. He knows he's a 1 term President and payback is a bitch.

Silly liberals.

Aggh.

 

[Double Trouble]

This is exactly what I said (in the other thread) would happen. At best, some of the smaller fish might face some problems (mr. Yoo perhaps). That will be the extent of the action to placate the lefty fringe. This admin, like every other admin before it, is smart enough to know that really going after any previous "big fish" is a very very risky proposition that could very well backfire later on. Simply not worth it.

Wise move by the Obama admin. :thumbsup:

 

[sandorski]

Send them to Gitmo. Seems to be where the Unprosecuted get sent. Waterboard Confessions out of them, then Prosecute.