SoundStorm is dead and is never coming back **Updated 3/3**

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: Darien

I can afford to buy a top of the range soundcard and video card but IMHO they are a waste of money for my needs and are only bragging rights

Do you have really crappy speakers? Heck, mine aren't even all that nice and I could definately tell the difference between soundstorm analog and my current pci card. Bragging rights when it comes to listening to music or having good audio? Haven't really seen that around here before.

Subjective. Tastes differ from person to person.

Abusing my Creative Inspire 5.1 Digital 5500 speakers with my Optical Out on my NF7-S is suitable for me.

Granted, if you shoved me in front of a £1k system or even more expensive, I could probably hear the difference but that difference would NOT be worth the EXTRA money TO ME.

I was getting rid of my stereo to make space so I had to buy new speakers (hooked up my PC to my stereo speakers). I bought a set that would allow me to use the optical out. I got an improvement in speakers and connection. It was worth the money because it was pretty cheap, theres a tangible difference in sound quality to me and Ive got extra space in my room.

I was happy with Analogue Soundstorm. I was happy using a 14" portable B&W TV with a mono speaker playing on my Amiga 500 when I was a wee nipper. I got my 1st PC in 97 so I was at the oldest, 12 when I stopped using my small colour TV with stereo speakers with my Amiga 1200 and I was happy then.

Whether you disagree or not doesnt particularly bother me. The Soundstorm supporters of the Anandtech Forums have put together a wide variety of arguements for keeping Soundstorm. Most of our arguements are subject to personal preference but whichever way you look at it, Soundstorm is one hell of a good onboard solution. It provides a quality level of which Im sure most average punters would be happy with and also the enthusiasts amongst us who are on a budget or dont see the point in blowing that much extra on our computers are also appreciative of the qualities and functions of Soundstorm, especially when using the Digital Outputs.

We have plenty of support around the net. I think we can do it. Just think, some day you may be thanking us when we all have excellent competition in the Sound Card/Onboard Sound market.

 

[Mem]

In this case, NFS4 is just telling you all to stop whinning, and I'm saying you all dont' have much to whine about unless you used digital/optical out because the analog quality was poor and the cost of a soundcard is minor, so it isn't much to whine about. None of these statements look like we're dictating what you all should buy.

That`s funny I thought AT forums were for posting news,debating and feedback,most members here are not whinning,bottom line is lot of people here will be sad when the SoundStorm goes (that`s not whining).

NFS4(no offence NFS4) could of posted his title better like "SoundStorm is going for good",less of a flamebait but hey I know some people like to spice up their titles 😉.

Do you have really crappy speakers? Heck, mine aren't even all that nice and I could definately tell the difference between soundstorm analog and my current pci card. Bragging rights when it comes to listening to music or having good audio? Haven't really seen that around here before.

What`s crappy speakers got to do with it?We are talking about the SoundStorm going for good not the sound quality in analogue mode .
As I `ve already posted I also use it for gaming only(low CPU Usage and decent sound quality)anything serious like music then I use my HI-FI which blows any sound card away.

🙂

 

[BenSkywalker]

Don't buy creative then.

M-Audio and Terratec make cards that sound much nicer.

And are rather sickly jokes for gaming. Let's forget they don't support any of the more current 3D sound APIs, and let's further forget that they have significantly higher CPU utilization then CL's offerings(forget nV)- where the he!l do I plug my joystick in to? It would be great if there was a board that had the music audio quality of a Delta 1010 that didn't completely suck for gaming, but there isn't.

 

[Concillian]

Originally posted by: Darien

1) To a typical gamer SoundStorm is better than a Creative solution because audio quality doesn't matter so much and SoundStorm is WAY cheaper

Typical, like the masses who play the sims and very little else, don't care.

Typical, like those who play doom 3 and such, already have expensive video cards and upgrade their components regularly. Bitching about price seems odd for this group.

M-Audio makes good cards. Why not give 'em a shot?

Does the Sims even use 3D audio?
I don't care what I'm spending on other components, why spend another $100 if I don't have to?

The thing is there is nothing that exists to take SoundStorms place even. Even if you strip it down to the bare minimum of what I would want:
1) cheap
2) Has decent drivers without the bloat
3) Has good hardware 3D acceleration

Guess what, there isn't a card made that does all that. In fact, few cards even give you 2 out of three. Soundstorm did that and a whole lot more (that I didn't use, but other people obviously did). Your saying that we spend so much on video cards, why should we feel bad about spending more on audio isn't the point. We've seen it done. We had good 3D audio for less than $30, in fact it is still faster than any 3d accelerated audio has ever been, even 3 years later. Now it's gone and there is no product to take it's place.

It's as if there were suddenly no more integrated IDE. I mean how happy would you be at spending $30-50 on an IDE adapter when you were used to getting it for free? We all used to buy seperate IDE adapters back in the 386 and 486 days (well I did at least, maybe I'm just too old), so why is it a problem? I mean in the overall price of the computer it's not a big deal is it?

I think the reason this issue is so explosive is not so much SoundStorm specific, but the state of the 3D sound industry as a whole. Creative has a monopoly, and people who would like an alternative choice are frustrated.

 

[Darien]

So you are going to argue that even though i can tell the difference, night and day, between the soundstorm on my old mobo and C-media trash on my new one, that they are essentially the same. Even though my NVIDIA solution didnt have clicks and pops in MP3s, and didnt have 6-8% CPU usage (on a 3.46ghz P4 no less).

>I'm not arguing.
>Cmedia != realtek
>not all onboard sounds are the same
>onboard sound < half-decent sound card
>the nvidia solution CAN pop and click thanks to overheating southbridges, acpi and other issues. the issue has come up numerous times on nforcershq. the trick that worked for me was changing acpi.
>6-8% cpu usage is minimal. so i get 80 fps instead of 85. boo hoo.

JUST BECAUSE ITS NOT AS GOOD AS AN A2ZX DOES NOT MEAN ITS NOT BETTER THAN THE TRASH THEY ARE GIVING US NOW.

i don't even really like the audigy 2. and i never said soundstorm wasn't a step up. i've claimed that the DACs it was paired with suck, but not soundstorm itself.

 

[Darien]

Soundstorm is one hell of a good onboard solution.

agreed

It provides a quality level of which Im sure most average punters would be happy with and also the enthusiasts amongst us who are on a budget or dont see the point in blowing that much extra on our computers are also appreciative of the qualities and functions of Soundstorm, especially when using the Digital Outputs.

most average people would be fine with anything you give them. to the enthusiasts, soundstorm was great if you used digital output. no use wasting DD encoding functionality when the analog sucks.

 

[Darien]

What`s crappy speakers got to do with it?We are talking about the SoundStorm going for good not the sound quality in analogue mode .
As I `ve already posted I also use it for gaming only(low CPU Usage and decent sound quality)anything serious like music then I use my HI-FI which blows any sound card away.

crappy speakers are everything. if they're crappy enough, it doesn't matter what sound card you're using. my point was that SS is wasted on analog because they sounded horrible.

 

[Darien]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

Don't buy creative then.

M-Audio and Terratec make cards that sound much nicer.

And are rather sickly jokes for gaming. Let's forget they don't support any of the more current 3D sound APIs, and let's further forget that they have significantly higher CPU utilization then CL's offerings(forget nV)- where the he!l do I plug my joystick in to? It would be great if there was a board that had the music audio quality of a Delta 1010 that didn't completely suck for gaming, but there isn't.

Jokes? Soundstorm used sensaura and supported up to eax 2. both m-audio and terratec have cards that do the same.

If what you're looking for is eax4, then CL is the ONLY company that'll give it to you

Joysticks? USB.

CPU utilization is minor. Most people won't notice the performance hit.

 

[Darien]

I don't care what I'm spending on other components, why spend another $100 if I don't have to?

you can say the same about all the other components you buy.

The thing is there is nothing that exists to take SoundStorms place even. Even if you strip it down to the bare minimum of what I would want:
1) cheap
2) Has decent drivers without the bloat
3) Has good hardware 3D acceleration

yeah, it's cheap. it's integrated
drivers are aok. no bloat
yeah, hardware acceleration.

Guess what, there isn't a card made that does all that.

"free" is hard to beat

It's as if there were suddenly no more integrated IDE.

hail to competition.

if the market demands for better sound, then we'll get it. until then, let's hope someone will link this thread to a mobo manufacturer that gives a damn and see if we get good onboard sound without crappy DACs soon.

I think the reason this issue is so explosive is not so much SoundStorm specific, but the state of the 3D sound industry as a whole. Creative has a monopoly, and people who would like an alternative choice are frustrated.

I don't think this is limited to 3d. sound as a whole has been pretty stagnant. As someone who likes soundstorm, I can see why people can be disappointed, but like i've pointed out several times, pairing it with crappy DACs make me wonder: why even bother?

 

[Concillian]

SoundStorm isn't totally free. Every maker who had SoundStorm except DFI also made a virtually equivalent version without SoundStorm. I see the cost of SoundStorm as $10-25. You can get a $25 sound card, but not one that has any form of decent 3D acceleration.

I would tend to agree with you about DACs. But at least there are several choices for add in cards that have decent DACs, and some are even cheap (Chaintech AV-710 is one, I'm sure there are others). For 3d acceleration there is Creative and nothing else.

I don't care what I'm spending on other components, why spend another $100 if I don't have to?

you can say the same about all the other components you buy.

Yeah, and an expensive video card is necessary if you want high resolutions and video options. I don't think we've ever had a situation where there was a "not expensive" video card that would run a modern (for whatever time you're talking about) game at 1600x1200.

If a top fo the line performing card was released at $100 that did the same as a $400 card you'd probably have a hard time making the owners of the $100 card happy to buy a top of the line performing card of the next generation for $400.

That is the situation we are in. We have seen that it can be done... we HAD a cheap sound card that did 3d acceleration and digital output as good or better than any card on the market (minus the crappy DAC it was always paired with)... Pandoras box was open... at least for a time. You can't expect us to pretend such a thing never existed and be happy about it.

 

[Darien]

That is the situation we are in. We have seen that it can be done... Pandoras box was open... at least for a time. You can't expect us to pretend such a thing never existed and be happy about it.

We've seen that motherboards can have some nice options, and can sound nice with digital out. Unfortunately that's a very small minority of pc users. It's rare enough for people to care about sound quality, let alone features.

I haven't listened to music on the intel side -- are the onboard DACs ok? or is azalia being held back?

Yeah, and an expensive video card is necessary if you want high resolutions and video options. I don't think we've ever had a situation where there was a "not expensive" video card that would run a modern (for whatever time you're talking about) game at 1600x1200.

Does it increase the enjoyment of the game that much? I don't feel that forking over an extra $200 for a really nice video card ads all that much dimensionality to a game. anywyas, this part of the discussion is somewhat diverting from soundstorm.

with respect to cost, originally i meant to put quotes around the word "free", because it's really cheap. my bad.

 

[BenSkywalker]

Jokes? Soundstorm used sensaura and supported up to eax 2. both m-audio and terratec have cards that do the same.

Besides there significant increase in CPU utilization they also lack realtime DD encoding. Also, the boards that support the gaming APIs from M-Audio at least is certainly not comparable to their products that have superior musical audio output compared to CL's Audigy2 ZS. Terratec may have a higher quality offering then M-Audio in terms of supporting EAX2 and good DACs, but their CPU utilization is significantly higher then even M-Audio.

If what you're looking for is eax4, then CL is the ONLY company that'll give it to you

I'm looking for something well beyond the extremely limited EAX2 which nV and CL provide(albeit differently).

Joysticks? USB.

So go spend another $150 to replace a component I own that works absolutely flawlessly on top of having significantly higher CPU utilization and inferior positional sound- what a deal.... Why would I want to replace a flawlessly working component?

CPU utilization is minor. Most people won't notice the performance hit.

And most people think that the 2001FP is a good monitor for gaming. Most people are happy with Intel's integrated graphics.

 

[Mem]

crappy speakers are everything. if they're crappy enough, it doesn't matter what sound card you're using. my point was that SS is wasted on analog because they sounded horrible.

You`re missing the point the thread is about the SoundStorm going,how many times have I got to say it,as to speakers , sound quality varies just like people`s ears,we all know digital is better but that doesn`t mean that some people find anologue adequate,also another point you`ve seem to missed is anologue quality varies on SoundStorm boards from one manufacturer to other.

Remember originally(in Nvidia`s design) the anologue stage was high quality but manufacturers decided to take short cuts and offer cheaper inferior alternatives in the anologue stage,so that`s not Nvidia`s fault.

"free" is hard to beat

Actually Nvidia have to pay for the "Dolby License" and the final cost is in the board that you buy from the manufacturer ,but because SoundStorm board prices are normally great you don`t really notice it.

 

[Elcs]

Originally posted by: Mem

crappy speakers are everything. if they're crappy enough, it doesn't matter what sound card you're using. my point was that SS is wasted on analog because they sounded horrible.

You`re missing the point the thread is about the SoundStorm going,how many times have I got to say it,as to speakers , sound quality varies just like people`s ears,we all know digital is better but that doesn`t mean that some people find anologue adequate,also another point you`ve seem to missed is anologue quality varies on SoundStorm boards from one manufacturer to other.

Remember originally(in Nvidia`s design) the anologue stage was high quality but manufacturers decided to take short cuts and offer cheaper inferior alternatives in the anologue stage,so that`s not Nvidia`s fault.

"free" is hard to beat

Actually Nvidia have to pay for the "Dolby License" and the final cost is in the board that you buy from the manufacturer ,but because SoundStorm board prices are normally great you don`t really notice it.

If we isolated the cost of a full Soundstorm package as it is now and saw how much our soundstorm solutions cost us, we could then discuss how much Soundstorm is worth to us.

Its by no means the best way to do it but i compared my board + an OEM A2 ZX to the cost of my board. My NF7-S has Soundstorm on so its included on both sides of the equation so there is no easy way to do it. I just said, is the possible sound quality increase of an A2 ZX worth the £50 or so it was plus a bit extra if you take off some of the NF7-S standalone for Soundstorm. I came up with the conclusion based upon using Digital outputs, the extra cost wouldnt be worth it.

Now, I dont have an Audigy 2 to compare to but if I assumed that I only had analogue speakers and an Analogue Audigy 2 is as good as Soundstorms Digital output, I could compare and derive perhaps a more balanced and objective opinion.

I think Nvidia could revolutionise the motherboard market with Soundstorm and whatever it is surpassed by. Raising the bar of onboard sound, it could make other companies consider the niche market of high quality onboard solutions. Its going to take quite a bit to convince Nvidia to change their views but Im sure that there are enough people that want it or at least would pay that little bit extra for the higher quality.

 

[Darien]

So go spend another $150 to replace a component I own that works absolutely flawlessly on top of having significantly higher CPU utilization and inferior positional sound- what a deal.... Why would I want to replace a flawlessly working component?

There are gameport to usb converters.

And most people think that the 2001FP is a good monitor for gaming. Most people are happy with Intel's integrated graphics.

yeah, i lost 5 fps and am now down to 70. waaah.

 

[Darien]

You`re missing the point the thread is about the SoundStorm going,how many times have I got to say it,as to speakers , sound quality varies just like people`s ears,we all know digital is better but that doesn`t mean that some people find anologue adequate

No, I'm not. You all want soundstorm to come back, and I've said various times that the benefits of soundstorm are held back by crappy analog.

There is a definite difference between the analog quality an nforce board produces versus an m-audio card. If you can't percieve the quality difference, then why bother with soundstorm unless you're going digital? You might as well pickup any motherboard using realPOS.

Actually Nvidia have to pay for the "Dolby License" and the final cost is in the board that you buy from the manufacturer ,but because SoundStorm board prices are normally great you don`t really notice it.

That's why I put it in quotes.

 

[Darien]

I think Nvidia could revolutionise the motherboard market with Soundstorm and whatever it is surpassed by. Raising the bar of onboard sound, it could make other companies consider the niche market of high quality onboard solutions. Its going to take quite a bit to convince Nvidia to change their views but Im sure that there are enough people that want it or at least would pay that little bit extra for the higher quality.

I agree. And I wouldn't be surprised if eventually, higher quality sound output starts to be demanded by more and more people.

 

[Acanthus]

I think i see the point people are missing here...

Soundstorm on your $50 Nforce was not good... There were a few motherboards that were "soundstorm certified" by NVIDIA, these are the manufacturers that didnt use trash codecs on the mobo and had much better sound quality.

SS certified motherboards: (if you didnt use the mobo, no wonder the analog sucked)
Abit NF7-S
Abit AN-7
Asus A7N8X Deluxe (ONLY DELUXE AND ONLY REVISION .1 OR GREATER!)
Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe (AGAIN ONLY DELUXE)
DFI NFII Ultra B
DFI NFII Ultra Infiinity (NOT LANPARTY)
Gigabyte GA-7NNXPV
MSI K7N2G-ILSR
Shuttle SN-45G
Shuttle SN41G2 (only V 2.0)

Not SS certified mobos:
56.

 

[newParadigm]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: LordPhoenix
I like the name Soundstorm.

With all the comotion it's causing between you uber-fanatics, they should call it Sh!tStorm.

LMAO!!!

 

[newParadigm]

I have SoundStorn, i've used it ever since i had it, its the best soundboard i've ever owned, probably because the one before it wasa c-media solution and the one before that was a SoundBlaster AWE-32 ISA.

So what i am trying to say, is that SoundStorm gave comparatviley AWESOME sound to me that i never would've had for like $30. (i got a DFI Lanparty with all the goodies).

The low CPU Utalization is great when playing gmaes like doom3 in Suround Mode, and when i cart it downstairs to use as a HTPC for parties the DIGI-IN/Outs are great.

So yeah i am pissed SoundStorm is going away, but i am at the same time happy for what is filling its place.

 

[Mem]

No, I'm not. You all want soundstorm to come back, and I've said various times that the benefits of soundstorm are held back by crappy analog.

There is a definite difference between the analog quality an nforce board produces versus an m-audio card. If you can't percieve the quality difference, then why bother with soundstorm unless you're going digital? You might as well pickup any motherboard using realPOS.

The point being you can use anologue mode and upgrade to digital when the time is right for free,also like I said sound quality does vary between boards,if you going to spend money on MAudio I would expect it to sound better then anologue onboard sound, otherwise whats the point of spending the extra money.

Look at the M-Audio and then look at a SoundStorm motherboard and compare prices,big difference both in price and features.

The fact remains onboard sound for many people is fine, I can tell the difference,but the point being it`s adequate for my needs.

Even using anologue mode (if you use the nForce drivers)you get low CPU usage(because of the the Nvidia APU) even compared to Audigy 2.

 

[Darien]

The point being you can use anologue mode and upgrade to digital when the time is right for free,

Like most soundcards

sound quality does vary between boards,if you going to spend money on MAudio I would expect it to sound better then anologue onboard sound, otherwise whats the point of spending the extra money.

There is a definite difference in sound quality. If analog sounds just fine because you can't find the distinction, then analog quality becomes a moot point. (though i'd probably go to get ears checked). But this also depends on the speakers you use. I'd imagine it to be hard/impossible to tell the difference if you use $10 speakers.

The fact remains onboard sound for many people is fine, I can tell the difference,but the point being it`s adequate for my needs.

realtek is "adequate"?

I'd complain to nvidia about that too. They need more stringent standards

 

[Darien]

SS certified motherboards: (if you didnt use the mobo, no wonder the analog sucked)
Abit NF7-S
Abit AN-7
Asus A7N8X Deluxe (ONLY DELUXE AND ONLY REVISION .1 OR GREATER!)
Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe (AGAIN ONLY DELUXE)
DFI NFII Ultra B
DFI NFII Ultra Infiinity (NOT LANPARTY)
Gigabyte GA-7NNXPV
MSI K7N2G-ILSR
Shuttle SN-45G
Shuttle SN41G2 (only V 2.0)

I have the a7n8x-e deluxe. the analog sucks.

 

[warzer]

what other sound solutions offer true digital out to a surround sound reciever other then the soundstorm?

as if may upgrade soon and can't stand cmedia or other non ss onboard audio i am in need of a good digital equivalent.

 

[Mem]

If analog sounds just fine because you can't find the distinction, then analog quality becomes a moot point. (though i'd probably go to get ears checked). But this also depends on the speakers you use. I'd imagine it to be hard/impossible to tell the difference if you use $10 speakers.

How many times have I got to tell FFS,ok this is the last time,read carefully,I can tell the difference between lots of motherboards(onboardsound wise)some sound really terrible while others are decent enough,I can also hear a difference between my Audigy Soundcard and my onboard sound in anologue mode(but not a big difference),however I`ve not listen to a M-Audio soundcard so that`s why I said "expect",also I said I only use my onboard sound for gaming only,for real note "REAL music sound quality" I use my £2000 audiophile HI-FI.

And don`t start trying to insult me with this $10 speakers crap,I was probably listening to real audiophile HI-FI music before you was even born.