Not sure where 'honesty' comes into that. Beleiving in "stupid shit" is a tactic people use as an defense against rational argument while they work for things to benefit themselves. Not sure where 'respect' (or it's absence) comes into it either.
Not sure where 'honesty' comes into that. Beleiving in "stupid shit" is a tactic people use as an defense against rational argument while they work for things to benefit themselves. Not sure where 'respect' (or it's absence) comes into it either.
thraashman
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
- 11,112
- 1,587
- 126
I saw the 2017 adaptation of Stephen King's It last night. Unfortunately I accidentally went into the conservative movie theater where instead of Pennywise the Clown, the monster was George Soros since conservatives believe he's the scariest boogie man in the world.
dphantom
Diamond Member
- Jan 14, 2005
- 4,763
- 327
- 126
only fair don't you think since you and your fellow communists/socialists fear the Koch brothers as much or even more? It seems they are evil incarnate from what I hear from you all. Personally, I find both sides reprehensible for their efforts to undermine our Constitution.
This is because you believe in stupid shit as a tactic to denigrate people who are so sure of their own stupidity they are willing to confess it in everything that they say. The respect goes to the fact that their honesty is a revelation that identifies to others they are bigots and that what they suffer from is bigotry. What you want to do is tie their bigotry to the fact that what they believe is evil and deserving of hate rather than the understanding they are also victims of false belief. In the world your kind of thinking would create, those bigots will come for you in the night while you sleep rather than announcing out loud who they are, and you want to that without also thinking of yourself as stupid in the eyes of others with your attitude. You don't want to step off the karmic wheel having fallen in love with contempt for the other. You are caught in a catch 22. Having bought into lies doesn't make you stupid. It makes you unconsciously programmed. There can be no real sin in that.
I don't have any strong opinions for-or-against Soros, to be honest. I don't think I entirely trust him, but he doesn't seem to be as much my enemy as the Koch brothers (not convinced he's my 'friend' either though). Now it comes up, I'm very mildly curious as to how he comes to have the politics that he does.
But the main point, for me, would seem to be that regardless of the occasional liberal rich guy funding politicians, the logic of the situation would seem to be that most of the wealth will be in the hands of those lobbying for the interests of the wealthy.
Thebobo
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2006
- 18,574
- 7,672
- 136
Ok let me first say on a selfish note I hate when people change their avatars. I am horrible with names but very good with images. Because when I see an avatar I don't know, it forces me to read the whole post of said poster to understand their point and see where they stand.
Having said all that rubbish I agree with your sentiment and couldn't have said it better.
What you did mention was: Not sure where 'honesty' comes into that. Beleiving in "stupid shit" is a tactic people use as an defense against rational argument while they work for things to benefit themselves. Not sure where 'respect' (or it's absence) comes into it either.
A tactic is a consciously worked out and calculated strategy and where the intent is evil so is the purpose. But the strategy, the tactic as you call it, is not conscious in origin. It is a behavior that manifests from delusional programming. Bigots are always blind to their bigotry. To maintain that bigots are to be held to account for problems induced by the culture they grew up in is another form of bigotry, one also inculcated by culture. Only bigoted actions deserve punishment as a response. The work to be done is best furthered by the producing a culture that does not favor bigotry and seeks to heal those who are infected. To disparage the honest expression of ones actual belief makes such healing more difficult. The organized prostilization of bigotry is another matter entirely.
I don't agree that tactics have to be conscious. They can arise collectively as a product of a group mentality, not at a conscious individual level. And in any case, I don't care whether something is conscious or not, I have never really seen why that is regarded as so important. Nor do I share your preoccupation with the concept of 'bigotry'. In fact, in all honesty, I've never been entirely clear what that word means. Nor am that bothered about whether an intent is "evil", only whether it's the same as mine.
I probably could agree with you that the aim is to produce a different culture that leads to different behaviour. But cultures depend on material underpinnings, they don't exist entirely independently and with infinitely malleability.
pmv: I don't agree that tactics have to be conscious. They can arise collectively as a product of a group mentality, not at a conscious individual level. And in any case, I don't care whether something is conscious or not, I have never really seen why that is regarded as so important.
M: I am going to go with your 'in any case' because I think the ordinary use of the term tactics refers to a strategically thought out plan as the common usage. The reason I see it as important is because the human tendency of people who hate themselves is to blame. We live in a state of repressed unconscious pain and are unwilling to face the real sources of that pain in our childhood because what we feel about ourselves and don't know we feel is our actual inner truth. We hate ourselves and we believe it is justified that we do. To awaken to the source of that pain by a conscious effort to relive it we fear will only prove what we suppress admitting. So not only is the unconscious extremely important as a concept to which we can address our healing, but it is the source of blame, the deflection by projection onto others of what we feel is true of ourselves. It is why we create the other. We are full of self hate and spend our lives looking for a place to unload it that doesn't lead to conscious awakening.
This is our prison, our catch 22, because there is nothing really wrong with us other than those feelings there is that we were made to believe.
pmv: Nor do I share your preoccupation with the concept of 'bigotry'. In fact, in all honesty, I've never been entirely clear what that word means. Nor am that bothered about whether an intent is "evil", only whether it's the same as mine.
M: I am not sure exactly what you mean by worrying if an intent is the same as yours. And this is a problem that becomes difficult to tackle for 'mystical' reasons. Let me start, then, by explaining what how and why I use the word bigotry:
I first began to use the word because it is pejorative, generally speaking, as a method to imply shame or guilt, I am apparently not very good at distinguishing interchange's definitional shadings. And I used it particularly against the typical kinds of bigots, racists, misogynists, homophobes etc. I believed at the time that by calling people bigots for the nature of their beliefs would cause discomfort that might impel them to change. All that was, was my own bigotry and a need to express my contempt for myself onto them, the bigots that surround me. Hehe, I used to be a lot more like agent than I am now. I should say, I used to think a lot more like him than I do now. I see more now but I am not cured of the need. I just see more about how it operates in me and by extension, to liberals generally.
So what is a bigot according to how I use that word. A bigot is a person who believes in some moral principle as a vital good generally to the exclusion of other valid moral principles because they have been inculcated into that belief by some external authority with which they fear to disagree. Generally the authority is a religious text that by its own proclamation is ultimate in nature. This would be your not uncommon Christian idiot that thinks the bigotry of 2000 years ago imparted into the Bible by men and not God actually is the Word of God. Bigots are literalists. And they are difficult to cure because, not only are they sure they are absolutely right, but that any other truth would send them to hell. They are trapped in a catch 22. Recognize the connection?
Bigoty, then, as I use that word is the unconscious certainty that some unexamined assumption that has been somewhere inculcated into ones thinking, has, not only to be right, but must be right or one loses one's ego investment in the salvation being good offers. This is referred to in certain schools of mysticism or real psychological understanding as I would prefer, as our dominant concealed prejudice, the thing that puts in a mental prison. It is a universal form of bigotry. Every culture is may vary in what is the typical blind spot is and that is why there are various forms of cure appropriate for every culture. I personally favor psychoanalysis as an excellent choice for people in the West who are secular, but my first insight into this blind spot thingi came to me via Zen. Fingers that point to the moon are not the moon, but I only have a certain number of fingers. I can only do what I can and that is probably not much.
pmv: I probably could agree with you that the aim is to produce a different culture that leads to different behaviour. But cultures depend on material underpinnings, they don't exist entirely independently and with infinitely malleability.
M: Probably so but I don't wish to make the assumptions you do. I have learned that everything I once believed was a lie. I have learned that one of the best states of mind in which to try to approach the truth is one of humility. If one can't see the nature of one's prison because the bars are invisible unconscious beliefs, it is probably wise not to invest too much an anything one believes.
I have seen this expressed many times in various traditions and in various kinds of advice: "Who should not criticize? You." "Physician, heal thyself." " Except as you be a little child....." "The meek shall inherit the earth." "Empty your tea cup." etc.
Thanks for your post. I get a good vibe from what I feel is your internal honesty. You can express your doubts well and that opens a door for dialog. I hope the above explains a bit more the nature of my thinking.
M: I am going to go with your 'in any case' because I think the ordinary use of the term tactics refers to a strategically thought out plan as the common usage. The reason I see it as important is because the human tendency of people who hate themselves is to blame. We live in a state of repressed unconscious pain and are unwilling to face the real sources of that pain in our childhood because what we feel about ourselves and don't know we feel is our actual inner truth. We hate ourselves and we believe it is justified that we do. To awaken to the source of that pain by a conscious effort to relive it we fear will only prove what we suppress admitting. So not only is the unconscious extremely important as a concept to which we can address our healing, but it is the source of blame, the deflection by projection onto others of what we feel is true of ourselves. It is why we create the other. We are full of self hate and spend our lives looking for a place to unload it that doesn't lead to conscious awakening.
This is our prison, our catch 22, because there is nothing really wrong with us other than those feelings there is that we were made to believe.
pmv: Nor do I share your preoccupation with the concept of 'bigotry'. In fact, in all honesty, I've never been entirely clear what that word means. Nor am that bothered about whether an intent is "evil", only whether it's the same as mine.
M: I am not sure exactly what you mean by worrying if an intent is the same as yours. And this is a problem that becomes difficult to tackle for 'mystical' reasons. Let me start, then, by explaining what how and why I use the word bigotry:
I first began to use the word because it is pejorative, generally speaking, as a method to imply shame or guilt, I am apparently not very good at distinguishing interchange's definitional shadings. And I used it particularly against the typical kinds of bigots, racists, misogynists, homophobes etc. I believed at the time that by calling people bigots for the nature of their beliefs would cause discomfort that might impel them to change. All that was, was my own bigotry and a need to express my contempt for myself onto them, the bigots that surround me. Hehe, I used to be a lot more like agent than I am now. I should say, I used to think a lot more like him than I do now. I see more now but I am not cured of the need. I just see more about how it operates in me and by extension, to liberals generally.
So what is a bigot according to how I use that word. A bigot is a person who believes in some moral principle as a vital good generally to the exclusion of other valid moral principles because they have been inculcated into that belief by some external authority with which they fear to disagree. Generally the authority is a religious text that by its own proclamation is ultimate in nature. This would be your not uncommon Christian idiot that thinks the bigotry of 2000 years ago imparted into the Bible by men and not God actually is the Word of God. Bigots are literalists. And they are difficult to cure because, not only are they sure they are absolutely right, but that any other truth would send them to hell. They are trapped in a catch 22. Recognize the connection?
Bigoty, then, as I use that word is the unconscious certainty that some unexamined assumption that has been somewhere inculcated into ones thinking, has, not only to be right, but must be right or one loses one's ego investment in the salvation being good offers. This is referred to in certain schools of mysticism or real psychological understanding as I would prefer, as our dominant concealed prejudice, the thing that puts in a mental prison. It is a universal form of bigotry. Every culture is may vary in what is the typical blind spot is and that is why there are various forms of cure appropriate for every culture. I personally favor psychoanalysis as an excellent choice for people in the West who are secular, but my first insight into this blind spot thingi came to me via Zen. Fingers that point to the moon are not the moon, but I only have a certain number of fingers. I can only do what I can and that is probably not much.
pmv: I probably could agree with you that the aim is to produce a different culture that leads to different behaviour. But cultures depend on material underpinnings, they don't exist entirely independently and with infinitely malleability.
M: Probably so but I don't wish to make the assumptions you do. I have learned that everything I once believed was a lie. I have learned that one of the best states of mind in which to try to approach the truth is one of humility. If one can't see the nature of one's prison because the bars are invisible unconscious beliefs, it is probably wise not to invest too much an anything one believes.
I have seen this expressed many times in various traditions and in various kinds of advice: "Who should not criticize? You." "Physician, heal thyself." " Except as you be a little child....." "The meek shall inherit the earth." "Empty your tea cup." etc.
Thanks for your post. I get a good vibe from what I feel is your internal honesty. You can express your doubts well and that opens a door for dialog. I hope the above explains a bit more the nature of my thinking.
nakedfrog
No Lifer
- Apr 3, 2001
- 63,061
- 19,365
- 136
I'm not aware of many liberal conspiracy theories that put the Koch brothers as part of a shadowy conspiracy, can you elaborate?
Liberals dislike the Koch brothers for the things they do very publicly.
bshole
Diamond Member
- Mar 12, 2013
- 8,315
- 1,215
- 126
If you actually i saw the movie, I would like to know if it is worth seeing the movie at the theater or if I should wait to rent it at home.
bshole
Diamond Member
- Mar 12, 2013
- 8,315
- 1,215
- 126
At least my avatars follow a theme. They show my daughter as she is growing up. Have they confused you?
Atreus21
Lifer
- Aug 21, 2007
- 12,001
- 571
- 126
huh. All this time I thought that was you.
Always thought you were too nice a girl to hang out in such a nasty place.
thraashman
Lifer
- Apr 10, 2000
- 11,112
- 1,587
- 126
Yes I actually saw the movie. I thoroughly enjoyed it and found it to be a good adaptation of the story. I didn't consider it scary, but I'm not a conservative who's afraid of his own shadow (though they're scared of their shadow mainly because it's black).
First, you seriously don't understand what socialism or communism are. Second, the left does have issues with the things the Koch brothers do. However unlike the where the right invents conspiracies about Soros, the left's issues with the Kochs is from things that are very publicly known and provably true. We don't make up fantasy scenarios where they work with magical dark forces to fund the return of Satan or whatever crazy shit the right currently thinks about Soros.
zinfamous
No Lifer
- Jul 12, 2006
- 111,891
- 31,410
- 146
Meghan54
Lifer
- Oct 18, 2009
- 11,684
- 5,228
- 136
Thebobo
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2006
- 18,574
- 7,672
- 136
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