Sopranos

Ilmater

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2002
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I'm traveling on business, so I'm watching more day-time TV than I normally would. I've been absolutely BOMBARDED with this anti-Sopranos stuff... it's ridiculous.

What more did everyone want? This was an intelligent show throughout its history. If you're too stupid - and I say this because to me it's very obviously a great episode - to enjoy that finale, then I'll help you out.

AJ - Ultimately, he was just a kid in a phase, and as soon as he had the sweet job with the great title and income, he became the spoiled brat he used to be (buying the M3, speeding around in it, etc.). What more do you want here? He's going to take that job and likely screw it up by being lazy.

Meadow - We find out that - and I think this was huge - her move from doctor to lawyer was mostly due to Tony and his arrest. So the doctor they wanted and were so proud of was gone because of what Tony did. Plus, she was clearly deluding herself with what Tony did and who he really was. She knew clearly what her father did when she told AJ about him, but because he's her father, she felt the arrest was unjustified. We learned a TON about her character in the simple act of her admission that she became a lawyer mostly in response to Tony's arrest. What more do you want here? Short of killing her, you can't be any clearer about what she's going to do with the rest of her life.

Carmela - We have learned a lot about her this season, especially in the first episode when she shows that she STILL loves the power that Tony exudes... "Oh Tony; do you really think I care about that sh1t?" "And that cheap shot your husband took at Tony was dispicable." We know exactly where her character is and what she feels about her husband and his life. In this last episode, she mentions looking at spec homes and such, which tells us that she's going to continue with her real estate work. What more do you want? We know what she's going to do from here on out.

Silvio and Bobby - Dead, their story is closed

Phil - see Silvio and Bobby... btw, GREAT f-ing death!!! I wanted him to die SO BADLY, and he went down in a horrible way. That made me extremely happy.

Paulie - He sees his end coming, and he's starting to be cautious. But in the end, he's as loyal as Higgins' Doberman pincers from Magnum PI. Oh Captain, my captain. Again, unless he dies, you can't be clearer about what he'll do. He's clearly a follower, not a leader, so he'll need Tony to stick around. If Tony does go to jail or dies, he'll be lost until a new leader comes in.

Janice - I don't really care for closure here, but the bottom line is that she's going to continue to be Janice. She's going to get a settlement, if Tony lives, and if not she'll manage to get money some other way. Tony visits her again, and she talks about what her and Tony are and how their sense of humor is the same because of the way they were brought up. This is closure, to me, on Janice. There isn't much more to say here.

Tony - Again I say, WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? Tony is being persued by the feds, and they have a snitch. There are potentially people in the diner to shoot him, but to me that's just a fun ending because you had all this suspense built up waiting for everyone to die, and he just ends it. Brilliant. The bottom line is, it doesn't matter. You know they've been building a case against Tony for years, and just like Johnny Sack, they're probably going to get him. They have a snitch, they've been building a case for years, and he's the #1 guy they want to bring down... no way they don't get him this time. What does it matter if he dies or not? What does it matter if the guy comes out of the bathroom with a gun or not? Either way, Tony is at his end, as are these two crime families. What happens next doesn't matter. Someone else will take over. Who cares who that is?!

I just want someone to say which story David Chase left completely open? Tony is the only one you could really come up with (you know they don't touch families, so the rest of them are OK), and I don't feel like we need to be told much more than this.

P.S. If you read all of this, and you still feel like the audience was screwed at the end, you should really evaluate whether you're still upset because Chase screwed you, or if you're just mad because you were mad when the episode ended and you just can't shake that no matter how much sense it makes to feel that way.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
2
0
Your analysis is one of many, and by no means necessarily the correct one.

Also, calling the people at the end of your argument stupid probably isn't the best way to start out.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,353
14,761
146
Ilmater, I more or less agree with your post. Sure, some people are unhappy that they didn't get to see Tony arrested by the Feds, and others will be unhappy that he (they) weren't shot to death in the diner, and yet others would be unhappy if everything fell nicely into place : The Feds dropped their investigation, the NY crew joined Tony's crew, Paulie was elected Queen of the Prom, etc., and I think Chase understood all that. At first, I didn't like the ending...THAT SUX! I thought, but by the next day, I realized it was actually not a bad way to end the show...IMO, it says that life goes on for Tony and family. He always will have the Feds investigating him (until they get something on him that will stick) he will always be in some danger of violence, AJ will always be a worthless little punk, Carmela will continue living in denial about what Tony does, yet enjoying the spoils of his labors, and Meadow MAY be the only one to amount to anything, but as always, she blames Tony for what happens in her life...
Life goes on as usual...
 

Ilmater

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2002
7,516
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Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Cliffs?
EVERYONE'S story, in one way or another, had closure. Those that are complaining just missed something or basically didn't get it.
 

Ilmater

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2002
7,516
1
0
Originally posted by: Descartes
Your analysis is one of many, and by no means necessarily the correct one.

Also, calling the people at the end of your argument stupid probably isn't the best way to start out.
I don't see how it's possible for me to be wrong. If I am wrong I asked people for feedback. I want someone to explain to me how they wanted the whole thing to end. I see no way to get more closure than we got without everyone dying, and I think everyone dying is just a sad cop-out ending. Everyone dying would be David Chase saying, "I had some good ideas, but just so that I don't hear a bunch of idiots complaining, I'm going to kill everyone. Happy now?"
 

Ilmater

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2002
7,516
1
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Originally posted by: BoomerD
The Feds dropped their investigation, the NY crew joined Tony's crew, Paulie was elected Queen of the Prom, etc., and I think Chase understood all that. At first, I didn't like the ending...THAT SUX! I thought, but by the next day, I realized it was actually not a bad way to end the show...IMO, it says that life goes on for Tony and family. He always will have the Feds investigating him (until they get something on him that will stick) he will always be in some danger of violence, AJ will always be a worthless little punk, Carmela will continue living in denial about what Tony does, yet enjoying the spoils of his labors, and Meadow MAY be the only one to amount to anything, but as always, she blames Tony for what happens in her life...
Life goes on as usual...
I respect your opinion, but I completely disagree with your conclusion that life will now go on for Tony and crew. Tony's lawyer said that there's an 80-90% chance of him being indicted, and I personally think the chance that Tony is taken out in that diner encompasses the other 10-20%. Life will not continue for them... it's over. That's as much closure as you get.
 

BrokenVisage

Lifer
Jan 29, 2005
24,771
14
81
I say Tony is shot, now that's how *I* interpreted the ending but each day I feel more content with that conclusion.
 

Crazee

Elite Member
Nov 20, 2001
5,736
0
76
Originally posted by: Ilmater
I respect your opinion, but I completely disagree with your conclusion that life will now go on for Tony and crew. Tony's lawyer said that there's an 80-90% chance of him being indicted, and I personally think the chance that Tony is taken out in that diner encompasses the other 10-20%. Life will not continue for them... it's over. That's as much closure as you get.

Actually an indictment is just that an indictment. If Tony whacks Carlo before he testifies, the feds wouldn't have a case. My interpretation of the end was this: earlier in the season Bobby and Tony were discussing getting killed and they both agreed that you wouldn't hear it when it happened. The last part of that final episode was David Chase whacking the audience. We never heard it coming and everything went quiet after it happened.

As for Tony and family, be prepared for a movie some time down the line.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
66,353
14,761
146
Originally posted by: Ilmater
Originally posted by: BoomerD
The Feds dropped their investigation, the NY crew joined Tony's crew, Paulie was elected Queen of the Prom, etc., and I think Chase understood all that. At first, I didn't like the ending...THAT SUX! I thought, but by the next day, I realized it was actually not a bad way to end the show...IMO, it says that life goes on for Tony and family. He always will have the Feds investigating him (until they get something on him that will stick) he will always be in some danger of violence, AJ will always be a worthless little punk, Carmela will continue living in denial about what Tony does, yet enjoying the spoils of his labors, and Meadow MAY be the only one to amount to anything, but as always, she blames Tony for what happens in her life...
Life goes on as usual...
I respect your opinion, but I completely disagree with your conclusion that life will now go on for Tony and crew. Tony's lawyer said that there's an 80-90% chance of him being indicted, and I personally think the chance that Tony is taken out in that diner encompasses the other 10-20%. Life will not continue for them... it's over. That's as much closure as you get.



But how many times has Tony been under the shadow of indictment for SOMETHING? The witness/snitch always seems to disappear...I think Chase highlighted the guys in the diner just to add suspense. No one else (as far as we were shown) knew they were having dinner in this place, and it wasn't someplace they've shown us before, like Vesuvio's...Random choice of a place, that they are not regulars in...how could the "other side" station hit men in every restaurant, just waiting? Could they have been followed? Of course, but they never showed us that either.
I think Chase left us with life going on for Tony as usual, (threat of indictment, threat of murder) and his more-or-less dysfunctional family. As someone said in a different thread, it's like WE the audience are the ones who were eliminated...HIS life goes on, we just no longer get to see...
 

Ilmater

Diamond Member
Jun 13, 2002
7,516
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Originally posted by: Crazee
Actually an indictment is just that an indictment. If Tony whacks Carlo before he testifies, the feds wouldn't have a case. My interpretation of the end was this: earlier in the season Bobby and Tony were discussing getting killed and they both agreed that you wouldn't hear it when it happened. The last part of that final episode was David Chase whacking the audience. We never heard it coming and everything went quiet after it happened.

As for Tony and family, be prepared for a movie some time down the line.
Your idea is brilliant, and I had not considered that.

The movie will never happen. Why would you expect a movie? Chase is not the kind of person that would make a movie just to make money, so that's out. Plus, I can't see a plot for a movie... can you? Do you see a way that a movie is really interesting at this point? No season and no episode had a clear buildup, climax, and denouement... how can you make a movie with this content? It just doesn't work as a movie. I certainly DO NOT and WILL NOT believe that Chase is lying about NOT choosing this ending just to set up for a movie.

But you are forgiven for this because your other idea makes so much sense, and I completely didn't think about that.
 

torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
11,631
11
76
I don't care about closure to the series. What I am undecided about is closure to the final scene. It was intentionally directed, written, and edited in a way that would indicate to us that something was afoot. Injected suspense. The suspense never led anywhere. This was obviously an artistic choice. I still ponder now and again whether it was just an F-U to fans or whether it was brilliant. But there is no question that the final scene was meant to make us feel a lack of closure in the scene, and possibly to the series itself. Say what you want about plot arcs, but that scene was not made tense with no closure without reason.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,450
126
I still think that Tony got shot as well.

There are a lot of good reasons for having an open ending, though:

1) The folks who wanted Tony to die can think that he dies, where the folks who wanted Tony to live (Why? He was scum!) can believe that as well.
2) HBO makes even MORE money off the DVD release of the final season, which will probably have alternate endings and...
3) Previews to the upcoming Sopranos movie! You can't have a movie without Tony, can you? :)
 

91TTZ

Lifer
Jan 31, 2005
14,374
1
0
Originally posted by: Ilmater

Tony - Again I say, WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT? Tony is being persued by the feds, and they have a snitch. There are potentially people in the diner to shoot him, but to me that's just a fun ending because you had all this suspense built up waiting for everyone to die, and he just ends it. Brilliant. The bottom line is, it doesn't matter. You know they've been building a case against Tony for years, and just like Johnny Sack, they're probably going to get him. They have a snitch, they've been building a case for years, and he's the #1 guy they want to bring down... no way they don't get him this time. What does it matter if he dies or not? What does it matter if the guy comes out of the bathroom with a gun or not? Either way, Tony is at his end, as are these two crime families. What happens next doesn't matter. Someone else will take over. Who cares who that is?!


You ignored the part where Meadow's fiance is involved in the case relating to the crimes that Tony committed. One can only imagine that he's going to help out Meadow and her family.

I think at the end, the director wanted the audience to know that THEY got wacked. Life goes on for the fictional crime family, but to the viewer, it ends here.
 

Platypus

Lifer
Apr 26, 2001
31,046
321
136
Why do people keep bringing up that conversation Bobby and Tony had?

Bobby got shot face to face with his two killers and looked them both in the eye before they unloaded 10000 shots into him.

If that is the point Chase wanted to make he wouldn't have had that happen.
 

Regs

Lifer
Aug 9, 2002
16,666
21
81
Tony is not dead but it doesn't matter.

They didn't show Tony dead. This is just some self-fulfilling prophecy everybody conjures up to make themselves more satisfied about the finale.
 

Crazee

Elite Member
Nov 20, 2001
5,736
0
76
Originally posted by: Ilmater
Originally posted by: Crazee
Actually an indictment is just that an indictment. If Tony whacks Carlo before he testifies, the feds wouldn't have a case. My interpretation of the end was this: earlier in the season Bobby and Tony were discussing getting killed and they both agreed that you wouldn't hear it when it happened. The last part of that final episode was David Chase whacking the audience. We never heard it coming and everything went quiet after it happened.

As for Tony and family, be prepared for a movie some time down the line.
Your idea is brilliant, and I had not considered that.

The movie will never happen. Why would you expect a movie? Chase is not the kind of person that would make a movie just to make money, so that's out. Plus, I can't see a plot for a movie... can you? Do you see a way that a movie is really interesting at this point? No season and no episode had a clear buildup, climax, and denouement... how can you make a movie with this content? It just doesn't work as a movie. I certainly DO NOT and WILL NOT believe that Chase is lying about NOT choosing this ending just to set up for a movie.

But you are forgiven for this because your other idea makes so much sense, and I completely didn't think about that.

?It may be that in two or three or four years I could be sitting around and get an idea for a really great ?Sopranos? movie,? David Chase told The New York Times in a joint interview with James Gandolfini, star of the HBO series. ?I don?t think that will happen. But if one morning somebody woke up and said this would make a really good, concise, contained ?Sopranos? story, I wouldn?t rule that out.?
Link

If he killed Tony then this wouldn't be a possibility.
 

BooGiMaN

Diamond Member
Jul 5, 2001
7,955
0
0
did we really need another thread about this..

basically this whole series was about life..sh1t happenes and life goes on...we got to see stuff happening to a family named Soprano, life doesnt always turn out how we want it or expect it to all the time and neither did the last episode

thats why so many plot lines never got resolved, because thats how life really is


'it is what it is' and our time watching the sopranos has ended but they go on
 

eits

Lifer
Jun 4, 2005
25,015
3
81
www.integratedssr.com
that ending was frigging retarded. i left feeling cheated. my adrenal gland was bone dry towards the end of that song anticipating tony getting killed by the guy going to the bathroom, and as soon as meadow walks in, ________________________________________________________________________________.

f that s.
 

loup garou

Lifer
Feb 17, 2000
35,132
1
81
Originally posted by: BooGiMaN
did we really need another thread about this..

basically this whole series was about life..sh1t happenes and life goes on...we got to see stuff happening to a family named Soprano, life doesnt always turn out how we want it or expect it to all the time and neither did the last episode

thats why so many plot lines never got resolved, because thats how life really is


'it is what it is' and our time watching the sopranos has ended but they go on
:thumbsup:
 

AnyMal

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
15,780
0
76
I am so happy I havn't seen a single episode of that show, so there is nothing to be upset about.
 

KeypoX

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2003
3,655
0
71
yeah your an idiot ... but its ok...


I have watched sopranos since the first season and i am really unhappy as is everyone else. It was a crappy end.

I know you think your are philosophically enhanced and think it was a wonderful ending. But it wasnt the whole episode was boring and the end was not surprising it was just as boring as the rest of the episode.

Also your version of the ending is way off i guess you missed the final.