Sony's losing lots of money on smartphones

[Gunbuster]

So they botched high end. Never competed in the low end Lumia 52X/Moto G space. What is left?

Oh I have it, another great idea! robot dog phone.

 

[ponyo]

I see you still have faith but I've lost it with them. Last year I emailed them about their phone strategy and how they don't sell in America. Their only retort was to point me to their website and send me a free Xperia Z Ultra. I declined. A year later and all signs point to a global slowdown in the growth-rate of phones. Considering how fierce the segment is I don't see how SONY can do better than its competitors. They've completely missed the boat , scale-wise. Their only upshot is that their smartphone cameras are in demand. So is Japan Display. But, other than that, it'll be interesting to see where they go from here.

Make a great product and people will eventually buy it. Even with piss poor distribution. People will find a way. So far, Sony hasn't made any great phones. Nothing worth hunting down. Hence no hype and no sale. Z3 is the first Sony phone I even have faint interest in. They need to keep improving the Z Xperia line. Z3 was a good start but 16gb base storage is a joke. 32 should be the minimum and 64 should be offered.

 

[zerogear]

This thread is entirely from a US perspective

 

[Red Storm]

This thread is entirely from a US perspective

Not very surprising considering it's a US based tech site.

 

[ponyo]

This thread is entirely from a US perspective

Loss is a loss whether it's in Yen or Dollar. And great product priced right will sell anywhere. Shitty phone will not sell even if you're the world's best retailer and marketer as Amazon is finding out with their crap Fire phone. Build a truly awesome phone and make it available and you won't even have to heavily advertise. This day and age, the Internet will spread the news and market it for you. Build a "shut up and take my money" type phone and eventually every retailers and carriers will want to carry your phone. Because people will want and demand it. Sony has yet to build that type of phone. I think the Galaxy S2 was that type of phone for Samsung. Sony Xperia? It's decent phone in a sea of decent phones. Is Xperia Z3 really better than Samsung Galaxy S5? I don't think so. But it's not horribly worse either. The past Xperia phones were noticeably worse than the competition.

 

[s44]

I feel like things are changing for the better. I feel the Xperia line is finally coming into its own. Xperia Z3 is the first Sony phone I would consider. In the past, I felt every Xperia product was vastly inferior to the competition and never considered purchasing one. But now, Xperia Z3, Z3 compact, and the Xperia tablets are all products I feel is good enough to compete. Sony just needs to get the products out there and advertise. I think Z3 is the turning point and start of great and competitive Android product line. I expect class leading device for Z4.

I dunno, I sort of feel it's the other way around.

Because of so many issues with the 20nm process, the chipmakers and OEMs have been stuck around late-2013 performance for a long time. That's how Sony can get people to consider the Z3 when it's really using the beginning-of-the-year SoC.

After this, we're finally going to get over that hump. And Sony will have a harder and harder time selling premium-priced devices, because the spec shock factor will kill them as the Koreans keep moving the goalposts forward.

Unless Sony stops settling on the spec side, the Z3/Z3c will be its *last* chance, not first. I guess we'll see.

 

[cronos]

I'm torn on this. I want the Xperias to sell and be popular because I think they're awesome, but on the other hand I like that Sony refused to cooperate with US carriers and chose to only selling them direct (with basically zero marketing).

I guess they're going to start selling the Z3 with T-Mobile (and Verizon?) so that's going to change in the near future. We'll see if they're going to start making the phones more available in the US.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

They can start selling in the US by just selling flat out unlocked. The devices will work on AT&T and T-Mobile.

 

[cronos]

They can start selling in the US by just selling flat out unlocked. The devices will work on AT&T and T-Mobile.

They have been doing that since last year, though, online at store.sony.com and also at their physical stores (probably like 10 of them in the whole US).

They just haven't done any marketing and the phones haven't been available immediately after they were launched. Changes on these two will make it much much better.

 

[poofyhairguy]

They need to get on some Prepaid carriers.

 

[Muadib]

I haven't seen a Sony phone since they dropped Ericsson. They make ok phones now, but since they don't market them in the US they fail.

 

[s44]

They need to get on some Prepaid carriers.

Disagree. Prepaid customers are generally pretty price-sensitive... Sony isn't going to sell brand-building flagships to them.

 

[Crono]

Sony mainly makes phones that pit them directly against Apple, but they aren't prepared to compete against Apple. That's a losing strategy, especially if you concede the United States and Europe to some degree, because they certainly aren't going to make inroads in places like South Korea or China, either. Excluding a bit of recovery last year, they've been losing market share since 2007 - pretty much when the iPhone came out.

Their mobile division is going to go the way of VAIO unless they start making some changes. They have excellent designs, but they need to expand their vision and start marketing other features to distinguish their phones. Waterproofing is too niche and is old hat at this point. Sony needs to start using their camera expertise to give their mobile business a competitive advantage, even if it slightly hurts their sensor sales to other manufacturers. Make a new flagship focused on that and put a big marketing budget and push behind it. Make the reviewers and journalists say "Sony is back".

When insurance is your strongest business - and you are a huge technology company with global brand recognition - something is wrong.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Disagree. Prepaid customers are generally pretty price-sensitive... Sony isn't going to sell brand-building flagships to them.

No, they need to make a cheap phone a move up the foot chain. Like Nokia tried to do, but couldn't do because Windows. Moto has gotten a lot of press for their Moto G. Sony needs a hit like that.

 

[Dari]

I dunno, I sort of feel it's the other way around.

Because of so many issues with the 20nm process, the chipmakers and OEMs have been stuck around late-2013 performance for a long time. That's how Sony can get people to consider the Z3 when it's really using the beginning-of-the-year SoC.

After this, we're finally going to get over that hump. And Sony will have a harder and harder time selling premium-priced devices, because the spec shock factor will kill them as the Koreans keep moving the goalposts forward.

Unless Sony stops settling on the spec side, the Z3/Z3c will be its *last* chance, not first. I guess we'll see.

This post makes no sense. Samsung and LG don't make competitive processors (no, Xynos or whatever it's called does not compete with Qualcomm). That leaves displays, cameras, build quality, design, software. SONY can get parts from Japan Display and Sharp, or even LG so display is not an issue. They make the best cameras for Android. So that's a non-factor. SONY excels at build quality and design so that is also not an issue. Finally, we have software. They do their own thing so they're unique. Considering how people praise the "light-touch of SONY's Android skin, that does not appear to be an issue at all.

So, SONY certainly isn't hurting when it comes to specs. And they lead in most other categories. The problem was, is, and will always be logistics. Once they get that figured out they will be in the game. FWIW, SONY is not the only company hurting in the smartphone space so their problem may not be unique. But they need to sell in more places.

 

[ponyo]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sony-trims-2014-net-loss-063716397.html

Sony mobile unit numbers are even slightly worse than the previously revised down numbers from October. But the difference was negligible and more than made up by strong sales of its image sensors. I don't think any of this is a surprise people here who follow mobile devices. But like I said back in Sept of last year, the big downward revision was throw out the kitchen sink and wipe the slate clean move. If you lower the bar low enough, chance of you getting your foot caught and falling is really low. Sony stock closed today ~$26/ share. That's about 50% higher than when this thread was started.

 

[Strk]

This post makes no sense. Samsung and LG don't make competitive processors (no, Xynos or whatever it's called does not compete with Qualcomm). That leaves displays, cameras, build quality, design, software. SONY can get parts from Japan Display and Sharp, or even LG so display is not an issue. They make the best cameras for Android. So that's a non-factor. SONY excels at build quality and design so that is also not an issue. Finally, we have software. They do their own thing so they're unique. Considering how people praise the "light-touch of SONY's Android skin, that does not appear to be an issue at all.

So, SONY certainly isn't hurting when it comes to specs. And they lead in most other categories. The problem was, is, and will always be logistics. Once they get that figured out they will be in the game. FWIW, SONY is not the only company hurting in the smartphone space so their problem may not be unique. But they need to sell in more places.

In all fairness, they really were hurting in the specs until the Z2. However, even though they may not have the absolute most current processor, which may or may not change with the Z4, if they could get a few big carrier wins and emphasize the battery life. Sony is probably one of the only ones that can claim a two day battery life and actually mean it.

 

[holden j caufield]

their support is absolute crap across all depts. Try looking for drivers on their website for older or linux drivers. Google Xperia battery drain, wake lock etc you'll people who can barely use their phone. Now if you are rooted and a techie you might be able to pin point the cause but for 99% of the population won't figure it out and will buy a different phone.

 

[Bateluer]

I bought an Xperia Z3 back in october, and I've been generally very satisfied with it. Sony's dialed in their hardware on their flagships that puts them right up with HTC, Samsung's, and LG's best.

Their issue is with advertising. Walk into a carrier store and it'll be covered with Galaxy and iPhone advertisements. The Sony phones will be tucked in a corner.

 

[DefDC]

I thought they had a winning game plan (on paper) when they announced the "Playstation Phone". I would love a high quality phone with a slide out controller. (I'm still kind of curious to pick up a used Experia Play on the cheap)

It would require a big screen, SD slot, and removable battery. Make it unlocked and stock Android. A consumer focused phone. I know the average consumer doesn't care about any of these things, however, it could start a buzz if gamers and enthusiasts took an interest. They already have brand recognition. (Fading!) Now they just need positive publicity.

Instead of trying to sponge every cent from consumers, they could set the market on it's ear if they had a high quality, reasonably priced device, and made PS1 games free to download. Tiny cost to them, major incentive for buyers.

Or they could stick with a play from the Sony playbook and go with a middling phone with proprietary formats, (Hey, let's bring the Memory Stick back!) charge ridiculous prices for media, and only sell apps from the Sony Store.

 

[master_shake_]

sony loses money on everything

no shock if there is no surprise.

 

[BoberFett]

Sony makes phones?

 

[Midwayman]

I've looked at their devices before. Trouble is while I liked the phones, they were way overpriced compared to their competitors. And that's comparing importing unlocked phones either way.