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Somethings going down in Mosul / Confirmed Kills of Husseins Sons

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Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Reuters News Agency

Plan is to release photos as proof that they are in fact dead.
This should help convince Iraqi Public that they will not be
further threatened by them.
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At least it's better they're dead than alive and free. A Iraqi trial, however, would have been nice.
 
Over the years yes, but they were in Iraq 60 days before we told them to leave. I agree that something should have been done about Iraq but they were cooperating to some extent with UN inspectors. If we had positive and flawless proof of their WMDs, by presenting it to the world we could have initiated an international movement to remove Saddam from power.
The liberation of Kuwait only came after we gave Saddam the green light to attack them, by telling him that we would not get involved. Had we not lied, we wouldnt need to take military action, but then again we wouldnt have military bases in Kuwait today.
 
There is this little matter of reviving and healing a sick and terrorized people. Knowing they are dead is only a piece of that. The act of being an agent to bringing justice to your own land is far more vital to that process.
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Here's Moonie, the master psychiatrist, here to give us a lesson on the psychology of an entire nation. I found it interesting that yesterday after talking with my sister in law's pop, (her family emmigrated from Iraq to the US in 1991), that they are simply satisfied they are dead without feeling the necessity of pulling the trigger themselves.

Tell me Moonie, how did you become an expert on the psychology of the Iraqi people? What exactly are your qualifications?

A Iraqi trial, however, would have been nice.
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"nice"? Why exactly would it have been nice? Just last week a fugitive here in the State of Michigan was gunned down by police nearly a week after escaping a standoff with police because he killed a member of the Michigan State Police who was serving him a warrant. What would have been nice there Moonie? While the police were being shot at with real bullets they should have only used pepper spray because it would have been nice for him to face a trial?

I take great satisfaction watching you Bush haters say anything, no matter how embarassing or ridiculous. It just goes to show that for all your bleating and whining against the Bush administration, you still haven't found anything of real substance to complain about.

I know you are desperate Moonie--it's right there out in the open. Hell, there's 2 people here at work that have the Bush fever just like you and PhillyTim. Watching their faces turn red every time someone even mentions Bush....well it's a beautiful sight!

 
Originally posted by: Corn
There is this little matter of reviving and healing a sick and terrorized people. Knowing they are dead is only a piece of that. The act of being an agent to bringing justice to your own land is far more vital to that process.
Click to expand...

Here's Moonie, the master psychiatrist, here to give us a lesson on the psychology of an entire nation. I found it interesting that yesterday after talking with my sister in law's pop, (her family emmigrated from Iraq to the US in 1991), that they are simply satisfied they are dead without feeling the necessity of pulling the trigger themselves.

Tell me Moonie, how did you become an expert on the psychology of the Iraqi people? What exactly are your qualifications?

A Iraqi trial, however, would have been nice.
Click to expand...

"nice"? Why exactly would it have been nice? Just last week a fugitive here in the State of Michigan was gunned down by police nearly a week after escaping a standoff with police because he killed a member of the Michigan State Police who was serving him a warrant. What would have been nice there Moonie? While the police were being shot at with real bullets they should have only used pepper spray because it would have been nice for him to face a trial?

I take great satisfaction watching you Bush haters say anything, no matter how embarassing or ridiculous. It just goes to show that for all your bleating and whining against the Bush administration, you still haven't found anything of real substance to complain about.

I know you are desperate Moonie--it's right there out in the open. Hell, there's 2 people here at work that have the Bush fever just like you and PhillyTim. Watching their faces turn red every time someone even mentions Bush....well it's a beautiful sight!
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Goodness Gravy, Corn, that's a deep psychology you have. Oh sh!t, I laughed so hard I made the dog start barking. Damn you Corn!

Watching your hysterical speculations about my mental state I can assure you also amuses me but let's not dwell on that since I really want you to see. We can start by arguing from a small sample base. I have three Iraqi friends who wanted to do them personally. See, now you are wrong. You are too honest, Corn, to argue based on the absurd. And look at the appeal to emotion in the pepper spray argument. That logical fallacy also, I'm sure, has a name. 😀 Weren't we talking about a building surrounded by marines. Who was at risk of getting shot once that took place. They could have waited them out once they were surrounded. All that was needed was the right intent. Your argument was so absurd it sorta sounds like you're the one who's desperate. You know how easy it is to project, don't you. As for my psychological qualifications, would you care to intuit a guess? 😀




 
Watching your hysterical speculations about my mental state I can assure you also amuses me but let's not dwell on that since I really want you to see.
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Are you claiming that you are not a desperate Bush hater? I suppose it is relative......in your eyes, your insane hatred is rational. 😛

You are too honest, Corn, to argue based on the absurd.
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I prefer to deal in realities Moonie, unlike you who only relies upon them when it suits you.

Who was at risk of getting shot once that took place.
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Just like the Michigan State Police could have "waited out" the fugitive last week? It doesn't matter if they were being shot at, they should have just turned their backs on him and given him some space to plan another escape (here's a hint, the fugitive was holed up in a house that was surrounded by hundreds of police officers--a fire started in the house--his remains weren't found--he had escaped circumstances similar to that which Saddam's son's faced) Of course you're right Moonie, all we need to do is give armed and dangerous criminals a little additional time!!! I'm sure that none of the current Baathist supporters taking potshots at the military wouldn't have tried to mount some sort of attack/resuce in support of their beloved leader's sons.

You'll have to point out the absurdity of my argument, because the only one sounding desperate is you.

As for my psychological qualifications, would you care to intuit a guess?
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Not interested in guessing.
 
I don't want to get into the tango between you and Corn, Moonbeam, but I have to say I disagree with your line of thinking. Even though there were a sufficient number of resources at hand, they weren't exactly in the middle of Podunk where taking your time to leisurely negotiate a surrender is more appropriate. The area is still hostile and these guys have to watch their back. Also, given time, another group of hostiles could have arrived on the scene and who knows what the situation may have escalated into.

If they wanted them alive, their best bet was to probably stage a commando raid, but from the way things were handled, it's seems that for whatever reason, that option was ruled out. I'm certainly not going to second guess the commanders at the scene. And to be honest, if I were a commander I would've made it known, not officially of course, that I'd prefer these guys show up dead rather than alive. I still think that's best for all concerned.

Last, this is still a military situation where any threat needs to be met with overwhelming force. No sense in getting more of our guys shot up in an effort to take down a couple of hostiles who may have been intent on not being taken alive anyway.
 
Originally posted by: Corn
Watching your hysterical speculations about my mental state I can assure you also amuses me but let's not dwell on that since I really want you to see.
Click to expand...

Are you claiming that you are not a desperate Bush hater? I suppose it is relative......in your eyes, your insane hatred is rational. 😛
Click to expand...

You Corn, are a desperate Bush lover and coutesan. In your eyes, your insane love for the man and lustfullness for him is rational.

You are too honest, Corn, to argue based on the absurd.
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I prefer to deal in realities Moonie, unlike you who only relies upon them when it suits you.
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You deal in the realities that Bush spurts down your throat. But your lust for him has blinded you.


 
You Corn, are a desperate Bush lover and coutesan. In your eyes, your insane lust for the man and lustfullness for him is rational.
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And you can prove that by all of the threads I've started that have praised Bush and his tactics, right?
rolleye.gif


You deal in the realities that Bush spurts down your throat. But your lust for him has blinded you.
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Why Flavio, I never realized you were a bigot. It's not very progressive of you to mock the gay population by using behaviors and images associated with them as an insult and personal attack. Tsk tsk, shame on you.
 
Originally posted by: Corn
You Corn, are a desperate Bush lover and coutesan. In your eyes, your insane love for the man and lustfullness for him is rational.
Click to expand...

And you can prove that by all of the threads I've started that have praised Bush and his tactics, right?
rolleye.gif


You deal in the realities that Bush spurts down your throat. But your lust for him has blinded you.
Click to expand...

Why Flavio, I never realized you were a bigot. It's not very progressive of you to mock the gay population by using behaviors and images associated with them as an insult and personal attack. Tsk tsk, shame on you.
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Not a bigot at all. There's nothing wrong with being gay, I just find your taste in lovers a little disgusting. Find someone with some character.....man or woman.

 
Once again Flavio, I'll ask you to point out any thread I've started, or post I've made that heaps any undue praise to Bush or his adminstration.

Bringing to light the disturbing behavior and hypocrisy of the Bush haters is simply what it is.

You expose your bigotry when you use homosexuality as an insult, and no matter how hard you argue the contrary, you are still just a foul mouthed bigot.
 
Originally posted by: Corn
Once again Flavio, I'll ask you to point out any thread I've started, or post I've made that heaps any undue praise to Bush or his adminstration.

Bringing to light the disturbing behavior and hypocrisy of the Bush haters is simply what it is.

You expose your bigotry when you use homosexuality as an insult, and no matter how hard you argue the contrary, you are still just a foul mouthed bigot.
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We all know where you stand and I could argue that Bush that no undue criticism has been leveled at ShrubCo.

I'm just simply bringing to light the disturbing behavior and hypocrisy of the Bush concubines.

I did not use homosexuality as an insult, it's your lover that is the problem. No matter how hard you argue the contrary you are a hypocrit who dishes out personal attacks at every opportunity but can't seem to take them at all.

chump.

 
bah some of you guys have taken this thread off topic and made it into yet another bush sucks thread.

now that is pathetic...
 
Originally posted by: jjones
I don't want to get into the tango between you and Corn, Moonbeam, but I have to say I disagree with your line of thinking. Even though there were a sufficient number of resources at hand, they weren't exactly in the middle of Podunk where taking your time to leisurely negotiate a surrender is more appropriate. The area is still hostile and these guys have to watch their back. Also, given time, another group of hostiles could have arrived on the scene and who knows what the situation may have escalated into.

If they wanted them alive, their best bet was to probably stage a commando raid, but from the way things were handled, it's seems that for whatever reason, that option was ruled out. I'm certainly not going to second guess the commanders at the scene. And to be honest, if I were a commander I would've made it known, not officially of course, that I'd prefer these guys show up dead rather than alive. I still think that's best for all concerned.

Last, this is still a military situation where any threat needs to be met with overwhelming force. No sense in getting more of our guys shot up in an effort to take down a couple of hostiles who may have been intent on not being taken alive anyway.
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You have a valid point of view, jj. I wasn't there and wasn't calling the shots. I disagree. I think there value alive would have been profound. I would have made sure the military overrode their instincts to capture these two alive if possible. If possible is a difficult thing to assess. None of the objections you raise seem insurmountable. I doubt that great priority was attached to taking them alive and I think that was a mistake, that's all. Some people knee jerk at whatever position I take. They like to wet their pants.


 
Originally posted by: Moonbeam

You have a valid point of view, jj. I wasn't there and wasn't calling the shots. I disagree. I think there value alive would have been profound. I would have made sure the military overrode their instincts to capture these two alive if possible. If possible is a difficult thing to assess. None of the objections you raise seem insurmountable. I doubt that great priority was attached to taking them alive and I think that was a mistake, that's all. Some people knee jerk at whatever position I take. They like to wet their pants.
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Yeah, I can understand your POV. And it certainly would be interesting to see what could be pried out of them. It's just that on my checklist of pros and cons, the cons of them being alive seemed to outweigh the pros. Another thing occurred to me after my initial post. If these guys were to remain alive, it would likely give the resistance a rallying point and motivation to either step up attacks, switch into suicide bomber mode, or start taking hostages in an effort to get them released. Dead, you take away any bargaining chips and you have a chance to demoralize the resistance and start to dissolve the dream of them being in power again. Them being dead sucks from a justice point of view and an intelligence point of view, but I still think it's probably the best way to go.

 
Well that makes sense. Well maybe not, but expected.
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Sorry, I must have had a Moonbeam moment there, I'll rephrase for clarity:

We all know where you stand ...
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Evidently you have no idea where I stand. You have nothing to back up your ascertion that I am a "Bush lover". This fact evidently has caused you intense frustration leading you to inadvertently bring to light your apparent bigotry, your inability to provide any reasoned argument, and thusly closing your steller [/sarcasm] argument with "chump".

I certainly hope that's simple enough for you to understand.
 
Corn upset with being tarred with a broad brush..... Hehe, Oh the irony.
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Upset? Whatever would give you that idea? Probably me calling Flavio a chump I guess.....oh wait, that wasn't me...........
 
Evidently you have no idea where I stand. You have nothing to back up your ascertion that I am a "Bush lover".
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Oh I don't know, could it be your ardent defense of all his lies, motives, policies in every other thread? Sure you hav'nt admitted your a log cabin member, it's obvious.

 
Oh I don't know, could it be your ardent defense of all his lies, motives, policies in every other thread?
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Once again I'll ask for any evidence that I've defended any of Bush's supposed lies. I mean, if I do it in "every other thread", surely you would find something in short order--so how come you can't come up with anything?
 
I refuse to put your name in the search engine because my browser remembers everything....And I don't want it wasting a line with it in it's memory.

But since we're here how bout this thread........"and for cryin' out loud PhillyTim, how pathetic does your continual Bush hating rhetoric come across now" you defend Bush when he did'nt even need to be defended, talk about paranoid. Then of course the adhom which you also seem to love.
 
I refuse to put your name in the search engine because my browser remembers everything....And I don't want it wasting a line with it in it's memory.
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So basically you couldn't come up with anything and this is your pathetic excuse. Check.

But since we're here how bout this thread........"and for cryin' out loud PhillyTim, how pathetic does your continual Bush hating rhetoric come across now" you defend Bush when he did'nt even need to be defended, talk about paranoid.
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LOL, that's not defending Bush, that's merely an observation of fact--of which I was 100% spot on! LOL, good job Dick Tracy........
rolleye.gif
 
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