Something Useful! Obama Wants Overtime Pay for More Salaried Workers

[Oldgamer]

What a concept. Actually have to pay your workers for the hours worked.

Agreed..

 

[Nintendesert]

Good, people working crazy hours on salary are just buddy fuckers ruining the market for other workers. Pay people for what they work, enough of the salaried-slaves.

This really should apply to everyone.

 

[boomerang]

So what's everybody think? Executive order or go through Congress?

 

[berzerker60]

So what's everybody think? Executive order or go through Congress?

From the OP:

Bypassing Congress, President Barack Obama intends to order changes in overtime rules so employers would be required to pay millions more workers for the extra time they put in on the job.

Of course, Congress could make it permanent and easier to enforce by passing an explicit law. Good luck getting anything through the House that Obama has endorsed, though! Especially something aimed at making businesses pay their employees.

 

[boomerang]

From the OP:

Of course, Congress could make it permanent and easier to enforce by passing an explicit law. Good luck getting anything through the House that Obama has endorsed, though! Especially something aimed at making businesses pay their employees.

Yes, I saw that in the OP.

Let me rephrase the question. Is it an important enough issue in our country today to necessitate that Obama do it by executive order?

 

[CycloWizard]

Want some cheese with that whine?

Our usual Libertopian/ Teatard/ ravers & worshippers of the Jerb Creators have been mighty quiet about this, huh?

What about Unconstitutional & anti-Merricun Big Gubmint! interference in the sacred Free Market! that's the source of all that's good and holy in this world? The divine right of Capital to do anything they please, cuz it'll all auto-magically trickle down to the rest of us? The pitiful plight of the financial elite, oppressed by an evil Kenyan?

C'mon guys, stand up for what you believe in!

You do realize that overtime pay was curtailed by government, not the market... right?

 

[IGBT]

why not sue for back pay??

 

[Fern]

audit and consulting. Suck it.

How long have you been in the field?

I ask because I started before we had computers etc. (no faxes, emails spreadsheets, word processors or other biz apps).

If you don't recognize the incredible productivity gains from the technology we now have I think you should reconsider. Or perhaps, you came along after we already had those and have no basis for comparison.

Fern

 

[Fern]

Government has no right to get involved with this. He's just using this as a way to buy more votes and his idiotic supporters fall for this BS.

I suspect the real objective is adding more jobs.

If you have to pay those employees overtime it'll be less expensive to limit the OT and just hire more people.

Fern

 

[berzerker60]

Yes, I saw that in the OP.

Let me rephrase the question. Is it an important enough issue in our country today to necessitate that Obama do it by executive order?

1) Yes it is
2) Importance doesn't really have anything to do with executive orders. There are executive orders for lots of really unimportant stuff and lots of really important stuff.

why not sue for back pay??

Costs a lot of money for lawyers, low chance of success, burns bridges for later recommendations/references, future potential employers might not want a potential 'troublemaker,' hard to prove.

Basically, employers have a huge structural power advantage over individual workers. That's why unions are often necessary, and government regulation is a poor second place option that's still better than nothing. In my field (academia), grad students are routinely asked and expected to work truly absurd hours for little reward, with the theoretical payoff coming when they get a job later with their boss' help. Our grad student union made sure we weren't working more hours than our contracts stated, and if someone tried to demand more than that without pay, the union would step in and be the 'bad guy' in the professor's eyes, rather than the grad student taking the blame for 'complaining' and getting worse recommendations later on.

 

[who?]

If a job has good benefits two people working overtime can cost less than three people working 40 hr.s each due to the benefits savings.
Will employers have to raise prices? Will consumers tolerate the price hikes?

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Oooooo, yeah, this means that the companies that are making billions in profits will need more corporate welfare.

Not at an ~2.5% increase, but, more like a 2,500%. Better yet, make it 5,000%.

Oh, and lets make sure no government intervention / involvement is available for a kid looking for a meal; those little cock suckers need to get it right: be rich, otherwise die,.. I mean, they need to stop relying on the government to give them stuff.

I don't know... what the hell you're trying to say here.... But 2.5% doesn't even cover annual inflation rates... In affect, you're almost losing money when you get a 2.5% raise.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

How long have you been in the field?

I ask because I started before we had computers etc. (no faxes, emails spreadsheets, word processors or other biz apps).

If you don't recognize the incredible productivity gains from the technology we now have I think you should reconsider. Or perhaps, you came along after we already had those and have no basis for comparison.

Fern

Pointing and clicking with a mouse vs. a pencil isn't much different. Plenty of it still is on paper, so a lot hasn't really changed. There is some audit software that will extract data, don't get me wrong there - but your ability to find the flaws is very much a tedious task. People spend all hours of the night with that shit. It's incredible the crap people go through in the business world trying to climb their way to manager level from worker ant.

I've been in the "general" finance work fields for 5 years. So ever since I started it has been this productivity level.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Good, people working crazy hours on salary are just buddy fuckers ruining the market for other workers. Pay people for what they work, enough of the salaried-slaves.

This really should apply to everyone.

I agree, but hell - I'm willing to start somewhere. Given my salary, this proposal probably doesn't (and won't) apply to me due to the cap. But this is something I will stand up and say is very much needed. At least my wife get's her hours back in vacation time (well similar to vacation - IE: Work 2 extra hours, get 2 hours more in vacation time). Giving those hours back in vacation time is the LEAST they can do. Sadly my company just naturally expects you to work as much overtime as needed.

 

[Jhhnn]

You do realize that overtime pay was curtailed by government, not the market... right?

In 2004, by GWB & a Repub Congress. Business friendly trickle down, iirc.

The most recent changes to overtime law were made in 2004 under the "FairPay" initiative by president George Bush. In this controversial piece of legislation, the definition of "overtime exempt employees" was changed to include many low-level working managers and/or supervisors by reclassifying them as "executives". This change caused millions of workers to lose overtime protection, and sparked a huge debate culminating in the attempted repeal of the FairPay act.

http://www.minimum-wage.org/overtime/what-is-overtime.asp

The Market? Overtime pay likely never would have existed.

 

[berzerker60]

Will employers have to raise prices? Will consumers tolerate the price hikes?

Possibly, just like they had to raise prices when it wasn't possible to hire children for 2 cents/day anymore, or when they had to pay women equal pay for equal work, or had to stop hiring people for 12 hour shifts 7 day/week, or established a minimum wage. As we know, the markets crumbled and we all died when those things happened. Just like they'll do if we raise the minimum wage again or require employers to pay their employees for their time and effort beyond the standard 40 hours they're contracted for. And I'll just cry myself to sleep about it.

Why, if we could just have employers pay their employees in company scrip again, redeemable exclusively at the company store, and give job creators the ~freedom~ to put clauses in employees contracts forbidding them from leaving voluntarily, we'll really see some efficiencies and a stronger nation! One we'll all want to live in!

 

[Incorruptible]

I suspect the real objective is adding more jobs.

If you have to pay those employees overtime it'll be less expensive to limit the OT and just hire more people.

Fern

Possible but I doubt obama knows that. He believes he can do this to gain votes.

Also the companies can just shift some of the workers to hourly and some of them will then make less. They will find ways around this.

 

[CycloWizard]

In 2004, by GWB & a Repub Congress. Business friendly trickle down, iirc.

Yes, we finally agree on something: government created the problem.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yes, we finally agree on something: government created the problem.

If so, then govt can alleviate it, as well.

 

[CycloWizard]

If so, then govt can alleviate it, as well.

Only to the extent that it can repair it back to the way it was before government got involved in the first place. That's called "less government intervention."

 

[drebo]

Perhaps you'd care to elaborate on that naked assertion of Faith, explain the mechanics of it all.



Yeh, just get another job. They'll treat you better. Honest. You bet. True Story, Bro!

Well, if you can find one. (Checks current employment stats... wtf jobs are you talking about, anyway?)

Rofl. I just got a new job 4 months ago. In fact, I was offered two jobs. One company wanted me so much they created a position for me.

Both were a pay raise and both were better companies than the one I'd been with for nearly a decade.

So, yes, jobs are out there if you're not a complete fucktard. And if you are, you probably aren't a supervisor and so this new "regulation" has nothing to do with you.

 

[CitizenKain]

Rofl. I just got a new job 4 months ago. In fact, I was offered two jobs. One company wanted me so much they created a position for me.

Both were a pay raise and both were better companies than the one I'd been with for nearly a decade.

So, yes, jobs are out there if you're not a complete fucktard. And if you are, you probably aren't a supervisor and so this new "regulation" has nothing to do with you.

Its almost like anecdotes are worthless.

 

[Pray To Jesus]

yes


Business should be held accountable to agreements. If a job is 40 hours on paper but 60 hours in reality, it needs to pay for the extra 20 hours.


Integrity is important.

 

[z1ggy]

This will never work in reality. This will result in businesses paying their workers fairly for hours worked, aka turning less profit. To counter balance this, they will hire less people over all since it's cheaper to pay one guy for 80 hours than two guys for 40 hours. There will be less jobs available per a given sector because everybody is now required to be paid overtime and all the bad things that come with a high jobless #, etc etc etc.

It's obviously good for the people who already have a job, but probably not going to work out so well for the folks who are looking for one.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

This will never work in reality. This will result in businesses paying their workers fairly for hours worked, aka turning less profit. To counter balance this, they will hire less people over all since it's cheaper to pay one guy for 80 hours than two guys for 40 hours. There will be less jobs available per a given sector because everybody is now required to be paid overtime and all the bad things that come with a high jobless #, etc etc etc.

It's obviously good for the people who already have a job, but probably not going to work out so well for the folks who are looking for one.

Disagreed. When you're talking working 10h+ a day, your work won't be the same as if you woke up 1 hour ago. You flinch, you can't think the same, and your natural brain reactions are to turn off. At a certain point all the coffee in the world doesn't help.

As far as work production * Payout is concerned, 2x @ 40hours is the way to go.