Something to cheer (Francophobes) or reason to cry (Francophiles)

[BaliBabyDoc]

Yahoo
PARIS (Reuters) - It was meant as a jibe, but when a U.S. senator recently branded French a "near forgotten" language he hit Gallic sensitivities right where they hurt most.

Yet instead of outraged denials, the remark has triggered soul-searching among French intellectuals who not only concede English's pre-eminence as world "lingua franca" but fear French is being shoved off the international scene altogether.

For a country which in the past has proclaimed its tongue the language of love, global diplomacy and the universal rights of man, that would be bad news.

With its 80 million native practitioners, French is ranked 11th most-spoken language in the world. With the 180 million who count it as their second tongue, it comes in ninth. Altogether, a quarter of a billion have at least a smattering of French.

In contrast, English is spoken as a first language by some 375 million and as a second language by roughly the same number. According to figures used by the British government, a quarter of the world's population speak it with some level of competence.
I cannot resist . . . Bush.

At no time was the supremacy of English as a proselytizing tool more painfully evident to France's leaders than during the Iraq (news - web sites) war which they had unsuccessfully tried to prevent.

It was the reporters for the international English-language news channels CNN and BBC World whose pictures and dispatches from the front line helped form the global view of the war.

Now France has asked its media companies to come up with proposals for a French-language global news channel -- a "CNN a la francaise" idea floated by President Jacques Chirac to ensure France's voice continues to be heard in the world.

"A language is more than a way of speaking," said Jean-Marie Cavada, president of state-owned broadcaster Radio-France.

"It is a weapon of battle, an indispensable tool for any great country."

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Excuse me, my Francophone is ringing.

 

[Fencer128]

Hi,

As a side note, I admire anyone who can speak a second language (or more). It generally shows intelligence, perserverence and an open minded approach to other ways and attitudes.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: Fencer128
Hi,

As a side note, I admire anyone who can speak a second language (or more). It generally shows intelligence, perserverence and an open minded approach to other ways and attitudes.

Cheers,

Andy

Or a dogged determination not to give in to inherent stupidity.

<---------------

I wish a second language had been required when I was in school. I've been learning Spanish, just picking it up as I go along, for about 8 years now living here in Cancun. I've learned many things in my life but I just can't seem to get another language down comfortably. My two year old daughter is rapidly approaching my level ability in the Spanish language.

 

[Fencer128]

I wish a second language had been required when I was in school. I've been learning Spanish, just picking it up as I go along, for about 8 years now living here in Cancun. I've learned many things in my life but I just can't seem to get another language down comfortably. My two year old daughter is rapidly approaching my level ability in the Spanish language.

IMHO that's why introducing foreign language at a primary school age (as we're starting to do here in the UK at last) is a really good idea if you're going to need/want/have to take one later on. I'm glad that we had to do a language at secondary school (2 later on). I ended up with 5 years of French and 2 years of German. Now a *little* later on in life I've found it really helpful when making the effort with my foriegn friends and participating/experiencing their countries/cultures (though I'm still by no means fluent! - if only I'd had 5 years of it aged 5...)

Cheers,

Andy

 

[Michael]

I speak French well. I know lots of people who speak more than one language. As far as I can tell, we're just as pi-headed as people who speak only one language except we can express it in more than one language.

Michael

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: Michael
I speak French well. I know lots of people who speak more than one language. As far as I can tell, we're just as pi-headed as people who speak only one language except we can express it in more than one language.

Michael

Well - it was only my opinion - and I did say "generally".

Cheers,

Andy

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Funny - I didn't take a foreign language in HS because French was the only one offered. I'm not opposed to having elective course but to make it mandatory is not appropriate when we(in the US) have enough problem with people graduating without knowing English which is taught for 12+ years.

CkG

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Funny - I didn't take a foreign language in HS because French was the only one offered. I'm not opposed to having elective course but to make it mandatory is not appropriate when we(in the US) have enough problem with people graduating without knowing English which is taught for 12+ years.

CkG

Well, that must be a big difference between the US and the UK then. Any numbers?

Cheers,

Andy

 

[B00ne]

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Funny - I didn't take a foreign language in HS because French was the only one offered. I'm not opposed to having elective course but to make it mandatory is not appropriate when we(in the US) have enough problem with people graduating without knowing English which is taught for 12+ years.

CkG

Hmmm CkG I know that is not what u want to say, but your post sounds like " We Americans are dumb and cannot learn a foreign language, because we have enough trouble with our own"

The truth is, because basically everyone speaks english (to some extent) native english speakers can afford the laziness to stick to just English.

When I was in school, we learned 2 foreign languages 1st: Russian (I am from East Germany) starting in 5th or even 3rd grade, and usually English starting in 7th grade (although u were able to choose French or whatever depending on what was offered in your particular school (so normaly it was English, less French and very seldom Spanish).

Dunno how it is nowadays but I think it is still 2 languages (Englsih 1st, usually French 2nd and Latin, if u want, 3rd). But it depends on the school, a friend of mine was at a "humanistic gymnasium(HS)", he had Latin 1rst, old Greek 2nd, English 3rd and he chose Russian as 4th.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Funny - I didn't take a foreign language in HS because French was the only one offered. I'm not opposed to having elective course but to make it mandatory is not appropriate when we(in the US) have enough problem with people graduating without knowing English which is taught for 12+ years.

CkG

Hmmm CkG I know that is not what u want to say, but your post sounds like " We Americans are dumb and cannot learn a foreign language, because we have enough trouble with our own"

The truth is, because basically everyone speaks english (to some extent) native english speakers can afford the laziness to stick to just English.

When I was in school, we learned 2 foreign languages 1st: Russian (I am from East Germany) starting in 5th or even 3rd grade, and usually English starting in 7th grade (although u were able to choose French or whatever depending on what was offered in your particular school (so normaly it was English, less French and very seldom Spanish).

Dunno how it is nowadays but I think it is still 2 languages (Englsih 1st, usually French 2nd and Latin, if u want, 3rd). But it depends on the school, a friend of mine was at a "humanistic gymnasium(HS)", he had Latin 1rst, old Greek 2nd, English 3rd and he chose Russian as 4th.

Learning a 2nd language in the US often does not make alot of sense. I have 2 years of german in high school and 2 semister of german in college. I have not used it since i left those classes. Maybe when and If I make it to Germany i can remember enough of it to be usefull.

 

[MovingTarget]

I agree it is verry beneficial to learn another language. I myself know a little bit of French from both middle and high school. However, like a lot of people that have attempted to learn a foreign language here in the states, I have not had to use it since then. Knowing another language is not essential to everyday life over here. In Europe, such multilingual skills are more likely to be put into use because you are more likely to encounter people that do speak other languages as their primary language. Here in the US, you can travel 1000 miles and still speak in native english to whomever you meet for the most part. Even if you travel to Canada, you can still speak english most of the time. (not too sure about Quebec, though) In Europe, travelling the same distance, you would have to know more than two or three languages to speak in different communities/countries along the way. I'm all for the teaching of foreign languages such as french. I'm glad I do know some of it and would probably want to learn more in the future. More people over here should learn Spanish/French/etc, but its just not necessary.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: B00ne

Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Funny - I didn't take a foreign language in HS because French was the only one offered. I'm not opposed to having elective course but to make it mandatory is not appropriate when we(in the US) have enough problem with people graduating without knowing English which is taught for 12+ years.

CkG

Hmmm CkG I know that is not what u want to say, but your post sounds like " We Americans are dumb and cannot learn a foreign language, because we have enough trouble with our own"

The truth is, because basically everyone speaks english (to some extent) native english speakers can afford the laziness to stick to just English.

Nope - I meant what I said. I won't even argue your interpretation. While a bit of your interpretation entered into what I said I also feel that our educational system has been watered down by adding "requirements" that have nothing to do with basic learning. We use English in our system yet kids graduate every year without knowing how to read and write IN ENGLISH. To add another language requirement would only further harm basic learning IMO. I'll also boldly claim, that if instituted, a required foreign language would increase the dropout rate because some kids on the "edge" would give up -wether they are truely slow learners or just plain lazy.

CkG

 

[AvesPKS]

I will if they will! One of my French friends went back home to work for an aerospace firm, after completing his Masters here and working for Motorola for a year. His main selling point for this company was that he was able to speak English; the other employees had no desire to speak it in order to carry out business with other companies that did not speak french!

 

[Fencer128]

Originally posted by: AvesPKS
I will if they will! One of my French friends went back home to work for an aerospace firm, after completing his Masters here and working for Motorola for a year. His main selling point for this company was that he was able to speak English; the other employees had no desire to speak it in order to carry out business with other companies that did not speak french!

I find that a little unusual - where money is concerned people are usually willing to do anything. Also, from my experiences of France (for instance) most of the people of my generation speak at least middling English. A lot of them are near or actually fluent. Spanish is also very big there with many speaking some spanish.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[AvesPKS]

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Originally posted by: AvesPKS
I will if they will! One of my French friends went back home to work for an aerospace firm, after completing his Masters here and working for Motorola for a year. His main selling point for this company was that he was able to speak English; the other employees had no desire to speak it in order to carry out business with other companies that did not speak french!

I find that a little unusual - where money is concerned people are usually willing to do anything. Also, from my experiences of France (for instance) most of the people of my generation speak at least middling English. A lot of them are near or actually fluent. Spanish is also very big there with many speaking some spanish.

Cheers,

Andy

Oh, I didn't say anything about the others not being able to speak English...they simply had no desire to.

 

[Fencer128]

Oh, I didn't say anything about the others not being able to speak English...they simply had no desire to.

Tres bizarre! Surely they want people's money? Sounds like they won't be surviving for much longer as a solvent company.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: Fencer128

Oh, I didn't say anything about the others not being able to speak English...they simply had no desire to.

Tres bizarre! Surely they want people's money? Sounds like they won't be surviving for much longer as a solvent company.

Cheers,

Andy

probably like here, many people dont have any desire to speak danish even though they know how

 

[Michael]

It is fairly common for French people to not want to speak English if they can get away with it. Common, but not even close to the majority. Just common enough to prove the stereotype.

What normally happens with me is I speak French to them and they speak English to me. I find that happens a lot in Europe - people speak the language of the other person.

The wierd thing about that is it would make more sense for each to speak their native tongue.

Michael

 

[freegeeks]

Where I live it's very simple. If you don't know French and English you can basically forget about getting a decent job.
I work in Brussels and I have to speak French and English the majority of the time (I'm Flemish - my first language is Dutch). When you live in a small country like Belgium that depends for 75% of it's GDP on export knowing additional languages can make the difference between having a good job and flipping hamburgers in McDonalds. You get your first French lesson when you are 10 and English lessons start when you are 13. When you turn 16 you have to choose an additional language (most take German or Spanish).

So basically in highschool I had French, English and German for several years

and before you make a comment - I know - my written English sucks.

 

[freegeeks]

It is fairly common for French people to not want to speak English if they can get away with it. Common, but not even close to the majority. Just common enough to prove the stereotype.

What normally happens with me is I speak French to them and they speak English to me. I find that happens a lot in Europe - people speak the language of the other person.

The wierd thing about that is it would make more sense for each to speak their native tongue.

Michael

I agree but it is changing quickly. I go to France at least 5 times a year and the last 2-3 years a lot of French started to speak English (or at least try to speak English).