Something I realized last night while talking with my fiancee.

[Codewiz]

Now I may just have a grim outlook on thing but I am not so sure about that. We were discussing the whole middle east situation with three different religions claiming land as their Holy Land.

If you simply look at the US and how we still have SO many people that can't get over something as simple as the color of our skin, how do we expect three different religions to get along? We still have so much ignorance and racism in the US today. Yes it is getting better BUT this is something pretty damn simple. It is a color of our skin. Why is this hard to get over? If anything this should be pretty cut and dry to overcome. But we have trouble doing it.

Then take something as illogical as religion but we expect people to be logical about the situation? How is that going to happen. Their religion basically calls on them to rely on faith and ignore logic. I just don't see how peace will ever be found in the middle east when humans are pretty illogical when it comes to much simplier concepts than religion.

BTW: This is not a thread for people to get into a religion bashing. We have had way too many of those and they do not prove anything. They all end in flamewars. I am just wondering how people have hope of peace in the middle east when much simplier ideas can't be overcomed?

 

[her209]

 

[Orsorum]

A good thought, and one that has no easy answer.

Both Judaism and Christianity struggled for centuries with the same issues that the Islamic faith is going through today - namely, ardent fundamentalism and the permeation of modern ideas and foreign values into their society. The process of maturation is painful, and very, very fastmoving, but it will happen.

Christianity and Judaism can now coexist peacefully (with a few key counterexamples) - it is only a matter of time before Islam joins its other two brethren.

 

[Codewiz]

Christianity and Judaism can now coexist peacefully (with a few key counterexamples) - it is only a matter of time before Islam joins its other two brethren.

You can say that all you want, we don't kill each other but I have witnessed PLENTY of hate on both sides in the US.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Christianity and Judaism can now coexist peacefully (with a few key counterexamples) - it is only a matter of time before Islam joins its other two brethren.

You can say that all you want, we don't kill each other but I have witnessed PLENTY of hate on both sides in the US.

Aye... do a study of the Jewish people throughout the last two thousand years. It is a violent process, and a painful one.

 

[boyRacer]

Makes you wonder how the world would be without religion...

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: boyRacer
Makes you wonder how the world would be without religion...

Monotheistic religions, I think you mean.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: boyRacer
Makes you wonder how the world would be without religion...

That was the point even WITHOUT religion we would have other stupid crap to fight about.

Religion just happens to be more complicated when we can't handle the most simple ideas.

 

[CraigRT]

their holy land is the most retarded thing i've ever heard in my life.. religion yet again goes overboard..

SO stupid.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Yield
their holy land is the most retarded thing i've ever heard in my life.. religion yet again goes overboard..

SO stupid.

And, yet, their spread has also fostered some of the worlds most important scientific and literary achievements.

 

[Reel]

Originally posted by: boyRacer
Makes you wonder how the world would be without religion...

better or worse. interesting idea.

better would be in that you remove the divisions and the belief that some "religion-sponsored" action will take you to a better place. A large problem with religion is the whole absolute thing, that only one version can be correct. I found it amusing in Stranger in a Strange Land how all the religions went to the same heaven afterwards. They were all just different means to the same end. With that belief, you would remove much of the anti-<religion> sentiment.

worse in that you lose any of the positive rules and stuff like that from religion. In any religion, you can find positive rules and guidelines to live by and I think those are what makes religion really valuable.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: ReelC00L

Originally posted by: boyRacer
Makes you wonder how the world would be without religion...

better or worse. interesting idea.

better would be in that you remove the divisions and the belief that some "religion-sponsored" action will take you to a better place. A large problem with religion is the whole absolute thing, that only one version can be correct. I found it amusing in Stranger in a Strange Land how all the religions went to the same heaven afterwards. They were all just different means to the same end. With that belief, you would remove much of the anti-<religion> sentiment.

worse in that you lose any of the positive rules and stuff like that from religion. In any religion, you can find positive rules and guidelines to live by and I think those are what makes religion really valuable.

It's interesting, if you look at most of the rules that were put in place for the early Jewish people - most of their rules were (known now to be) basic hygiene. However, in that time period, many of the precautions weren't known or taken. IIRC, the spread of the Jewish faith contributed vastly to the concept of basic hygiene and sanitation.

 

[her209]

You can't get rid of religion because there is always a belief system in place at all times.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: her209
You can't get rid of religion because there is always a belief system in place at all times.

I know that I wasn't trying to suggest that. My whole point was: How can we expect three religious groups to get along when we can't in the US over something as simple as skin color.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: her209
You can't get rid of religion because there is always a belief system in place at all times.

I know that I wasn't trying to suggest that. My whole point was: How can we expect three religious groups to get along when we can't in the US over something as simple as skin color.

The Europeans seem to do just fine.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: her209
You can't get rid of religion because there is always a belief system in place at all times.

I know that I wasn't trying to suggest that. My whole point was: How can we expect three religious groups to get along when we can't in the US over something as simple as skin color.

The Europeans seem to do just fine.

Just like in the US all three religions(Islam, Christianity, Judism) "get along" without war. But that doesn't mean that it happens all over the world.

 

[Reel]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: ReelC00L

Originally posted by: boyRacer
Makes you wonder how the world would be without religion...

better or worse. interesting idea.

better would be in that you remove the divisions and the belief that some "religion-sponsored" action will take you to a better place. A large problem with religion is the whole absolute thing, that only one version can be correct. I found it amusing in Stranger in a Strange Land how all the religions went to the same heaven afterwards. They were all just different means to the same end. With that belief, you would remove much of the anti-<religion> sentiment.

worse in that you lose any of the positive rules and stuff like that from religion. In any religion, you can find positive rules and guidelines to live by and I think those are what makes religion really valuable.

It's interesting, if you look at most of the rules that were put in place for the early Jewish people - most of their rules were (known now to be) basic hygiene. However, in that time period, many of the precautions weren't known or taken. IIRC, the spread of the Jewish faith contributed vastly to the concept of basic hygiene and sanitation.

The bubonic plague (as well as other diseases) was attributed to unsanitary conditions and in some of those situations the numbers of Jews vs non-Jews that were affected was drastic. As a result, many times the Jews were accused of poisoning the wells and such.

I think this goes to show that a large part of racism (etc.) is not necessarily because of who they are and what they believe but because they have some advantage that you do not have for some reason. KKK doesn't hate others because they dislike the color of black skin or whatever but moreso of jealousy or the need to knock everyone down to their level.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: ReelC00L

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: ReelC00L

Originally posted by: boyRacer
Makes you wonder how the world would be without religion...

better or worse. interesting idea.

better would be in that you remove the divisions and the belief that some "religion-sponsored" action will take you to a better place. A large problem with religion is the whole absolute thing, that only one version can be correct. I found it amusing in Stranger in a Strange Land how all the religions went to the same heaven afterwards. They were all just different means to the same end. With that belief, you would remove much of the anti-<religion> sentiment.

worse in that you lose any of the positive rules and stuff like that from religion. In any religion, you can find positive rules and guidelines to live by and I think those are what makes religion really valuable.

It's interesting, if you look at most of the rules that were put in place for the early Jewish people - most of their rules were (known now to be) basic hygiene. However, in that time period, many of the precautions weren't known or taken. IIRC, the spread of the Jewish faith contributed vastly to the concept of basic hygiene and sanitation.

The bubonic plague (as well as other diseases) was attributed to unsanitary conditions and in some of those situations the numbers of Jews vs non-Jews that were affected was drastic. As a result, many times the Jews were accused of poisoning the wells and such.

I think this goes to show that a large part of racism (etc.) is not necessarily because of who they are and what they believe but because they have some advantage that you do not have for some reason. KKK doesn't hate others because they dislike the color of black skin or whatever but moreso of jealousy or the need to knock everyone down to their level.

This was referring to over two thousand years ago, . The rise of plagues (IIRC) in the last millennia was due more to the close living conditions afforded by the migration to cities and unadapted sanitation and waste-disposal systems.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Codewiz
Now I may just have a grim outlook on thing but I am not so sure about that. We were discussing the whole middle east situation with three different religions claiming land as their Holy Land.

If you simply look at the US and how we still have SO many people that can't get over something as simple as the color of our skin, how do we expect three different religions to get along? We still have so much ignorance and racism in the US today. Yes it is getting better BUT this is something pretty damn simple. It is a color of our skin. Why is this hard to get over? If anything this should be pretty cut and dry to overcome. But we have trouble doing it.

Then take something as illogical as religion but we expect people to be logical about the situation? How is that going to happen. Their religion basically calls on them to rely on faith and ignore logic. I just don't see how peace will ever be found in the middle east when humans are pretty illogical when it comes to much simplier concepts than religion.

BTW: This is not a thread for people to get into a religion bashing. We have had way too many of those and they do not prove anything. They all end in flamewars. I am just wondering how people have hope of peace in the middle east when much simplier ideas can't be overcomed?

It only looks bad until you remember the US is a nation of immigrants. We are very racially diverse and religiously diverse as well. We have our bigotted idiots just like everyone else however.

 

[Reel]

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: ReelC00L

Originally posted by: Zakath15

Originally posted by: ReelC00L

Originally posted by: boyRacer
Makes you wonder how the world would be without religion...

better or worse. interesting idea.

better would be in that you remove the divisions and the belief that some "religion-sponsored" action will take you to a better place. A large problem with religion is the whole absolute thing, that only one version can be correct. I found it amusing in Stranger in a Strange Land how all the religions went to the same heaven afterwards. They were all just different means to the same end. With that belief, you would remove much of the anti-<religion> sentiment.

worse in that you lose any of the positive rules and stuff like that from religion. In any religion, you can find positive rules and guidelines to live by and I think those are what makes religion really valuable.

It's interesting, if you look at most of the rules that were put in place for the early Jewish people - most of their rules were (known now to be) basic hygiene. However, in that time period, many of the precautions weren't known or taken. IIRC, the spread of the Jewish faith contributed vastly to the concept of basic hygiene and sanitation.

The bubonic plague (as well as other diseases) was attributed to unsanitary conditions and in some of those situations the numbers of Jews vs non-Jews that were affected was drastic. As a result, many times the Jews were accused of poisoning the wells and such.

I think this goes to show that a large part of racism (etc.) is not necessarily because of who they are and what they believe but because they have some advantage that you do not have for some reason. KKK doesn't hate others because they dislike the color of black skin or whatever but moreso of jealousy or the need to knock everyone down to their level.

This was referring to over two thousand years ago, . The rise of plagues (IIRC) in the last millennia was due more to the close living conditions afforded by the migration to cities and unadapted sanitation and waste-disposal systems.

The plague was from fleas from rats. However, since the Jews following religious rules took their water from water outside of the cities rather than the city's wells, they were accused of poisoning the city's wells with the contaminant for the plague.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: ReelC00L

The plague was from fleas from rats. However, since the Jews following religious rules took their water from water outside of the cities rather than the city's wells, they were accused of poisoning the city's wells with the contaminant for the plague.

Heh... I stand corrected.