Something I don't get about the Paul Ryan plan to privatize Medicare

[QuantumPion]

What I don't get about Ryan's plan is that it is virtually identical to what Obamacare does for everyone - provides a voucher for people to purchase private medical insurance. Ryan's plan just restricts it to the elderly, i.e. the people who would otherwise receive medicare. Why is it communism and fascism when it comes from Obama and common sense when it comes from the GOP?

Virtually identical, except that the point of Ryan's plan is to add free market reforms to medicare by giving vouchers for seniors to buy their own health care, where as Obamacare is the government takeover of the entire health care industry for everyone. :hmm:

 

[werepossum]

god dammit why didnt obama just leave in the public option and called his program "medicare for all"?

it wasnt even government healthcare. it was government insurance. we all love government insurance, its in all of our banks. even the word 'obamacare' is detrimental for the simple fact that a public option isnt care at all, its just an insurance policy. the care comes from the same private doctors that it always did.

the democrats couldnt sell a naked woman to a teenage boy.

LOL

 

[FerrelGeek]

I don't understand - Obamacare cuts medicare by $500 billion, but democrats think that's great and it will make medicare better. But when republicans propose adding market forces to medicare without directly cutting it, democrats scream that republicans are cutting senior's health benefits and that millions will have to resort to eating dogfood and living on the streets. :hmm:

Democrat == good, Republican == teh_evuls

What else do you need to know?

/sarcasm

 

[werepossum]

As am I and I am 55. The government is not paying for my medical expenses. I don't have any but if I did Anthem Blue Cross of Virginia would be picking up the tab, not Medicare.

I have a Blue Cross Blue Shield Health Savings Account plan and I freakin' love it. Blue Cross negotiates base rates and covers any catastrophic medical needs, while for routine stuff I pay for my own with money taken out before taxes. Thus I am free to negotiate a lower price on most things, which considering that I'm paying day-of-service is often possible.

 

[JimW1949]

......... Obamacare is the government takeover of the entire health care industry for everyone. :hmm:

Why do people keep saying that? There is no government takeover of the health care system, that is completely false, but so many people continue to repeat it. Why is that?

 

[HomerJS]

I have a Blue Cross Blue Shield Health Savings Account plan and I freakin' love it. Blue Cross negotiates base rates and covers any catastrophic medical needs, while for routine stuff I pay for my own with money taken out before taxes. Thus I am free to negotiate a lower price on most things, which considering that I'm paying day-of-service is often possible.

Just for perspective how old are you?

 

[sunzt]

I have a Blue Cross Blue Shield Health Savings Account plan and I freakin' love it. Blue Cross negotiates base rates and covers any catastrophic medical needs, while for routine stuff I pay for my own with money taken out before taxes. Thus I am free to negotiate a lower price on most things, which considering that I'm paying day-of-service is often possible.

I just started a HSA/High deductible plan with my current employer and building funds. How do you go about negotiation the lower price? Do you just go to diff doctors or just haggle with your current one?

 

[her209]

I don't understand - Obamacare cuts medicare by $500 billion, but democrats think that's great and it will make medicare better. But when republicans propose adding market forces to medicare without directly cutting it, democrats scream that republicans are cutting senior's health benefits and that millions will have to resort to eating dogfood and living on the streets. :hmm:

Wow. Nice side step there. Sounds like you believe Medicare will become insolvent in 2017. So how does Ryan's plan fix this by exempting the seniors that will be bankrupting Medicare in the years ahead?

 

[her209]

Why do people keep saying that? There is no government takeover of the health care system, that is completely false, but so many people continue to repeat it. Why is that?

Because he's a "death paneler".

 

[trenchfoot]

Why do people keep saying that? There is no government takeover of the health care system, that is completely false, but so many people continue to repeat it. Why is that?

The ratio of ignorant voters to informed ones is ~100k:1

The ratio of right wing propaganda media outlets to left wing media outlets is ~100:1

The ratio of $$$ spent by right wing propaganda outlets to media outlets like NPR is ~1gajillion:1 penny

Health Plans that reduce the spiraling cost of health care, benefit the poor and those plans that cost the for-profit health care industry "unnecessary expense" ie- people with pre-existing conditions, etc. must be forced upon the industry by the government.

 

[Tom]

Its pretty simple really. We can't afford to keep giving all the fat people new clothes at an ever increasing rate. Either the government will ration clothes (single payer) or we will give everyone a clothes allowance that is less than they would like (Ryan Plan). We simply can't cover all the babyboomers at the present level of care, they will have to accept less one way or the other. Anyone who doesn't admit this doesn't understand the numbers or is being dishonest.

The Ryan plan "rations" healthcare too. It does it on the basis of cost.

There's no reason why we can't cover everyone for about half of what we're spending. Other countries do it.

 

[QuantumPion]

I just started a HSA/High deductible plan with my current employer and building funds. How do you go about negotiation the lower price? Do you just go to diff doctors or just haggle with your current one?

Depends on the doctor. Some overprice their normal procedures for insurance companies, and so if you say you are paying cash will get a discount. Some docs don't do this though and you won't get a discount. If you want the best price you just have to shop around.

 

[soundforbjt]

Depends on the doctor. Some overprice their normal procedures for insurance companies, and so if you say you are paying cash will get a discount. Some docs don't do this though and you won't get a discount. If you want the best price you just have to shop around.

I did this at a hospital when I was in a job with no healthcare. I needed some tests run and offered to pay cash and they gave me a 25% discount.

 

[Thump553]

I did this at a hospital when I was in a job with no healthcare. I needed some tests run and offered to pay cash and they gave me a 25% discount.

Sounds good until you figure the price breaks the insurance companies get. My wife just had roughly $400 of routine blood tests done and the insurer wacked the price down to $100 (75% discount) which we had to pay out of pocket (high deductible plan). Without the insurer's involvement I would have thought I went to heaven if they chopped 50% off the bill, when in fact even with such an apparently heavy discount they would have been getting twice their normal payment.

 

[fskimospy]

I did this at a hospital when I was in a job with no healthcare. I needed some tests run and offered to pay cash and they gave me a 25% discount.

Every doctor inflates their prices for insurance companies, that's why you NEVER pay the medical bill you are given, you always negotiate a lower price. (if you're paying it yourself) The reason doctors do this is that in many cases insurance companies will pay a percentage of the total price, so to get the amount they actually want to charge, they jack up the price.

 

[soundforbjt]

Sounds good until you figure the price breaks the insurance companies get. My wife just had roughly $400 of routine blood tests done and the insurer wacked the price down to $100 (75% discount) which we had to pay out of pocket (high deductible plan). Without the insurer's involvement I would have thought I went to heaven if they chopped 50% off the bill, when in fact even with such an apparently heavy discount they would have been getting twice their normal payment.

Oh, I know I was still getting raped.

 

[soundforbjt]

Every doctor inflates their prices for insurance companies, that's why you NEVER pay the medical bill you are given, you always negotiate a lower price. (if you're paying it yourself) The reason doctors do this is that in many cases insurance companies will pay a percentage of the total price, so to get the amount they actually want to charge, they jack up the price.

That's why I asked for a discount for paying cash. I wasn't about to pay what they were asking.

 

[JSt0rm]

So how does exempting seniors 55 and older from Medicare privatization fix the budget and Medicare from the retiring baby boomers?

Hah. Good point. The babyboomers are gonna make sure they get theirs till the end. Fuck them.

 

[theeedude]

Yeah, after the middle class working adult is done paying for Medicare for baby boomers, when it's time to get their own Medicare, GOP will give them a voucher that won't even be enough to pay for a healthy retiree's insurance, much less one with pre-existing conditions. On top of that, GOP wants to repeal Obamacare, so that insurers don't have to sell coverage to people with pre-existing conditions at all.

 

[Anarchist420]

Paul Ryan's proposal doesn't do jack dempsey shit in terms of cutting the Federal budget.

 

[manimal]

Paul Ryan's proposal doesn't do jack dempsey shit in terms of cutting the Federal budget.

It does give the top rates a big tax break financed by seniors though.


Now that is technically trickle up right?

anecdotally does anyone else think that in an alternate universe called bioshock Ryan created an underwater Randian utopia?

 

[masteryoda34]

What I don't get about Ryan's plan is that it is virtually identical to what Obamacare does for everyone - provides a voucher for people to purchase private medical insurance. Ryan's plan just restricts it to the elderly, i.e. the people who would otherwise receive medicare. Why is it communism and fascism when it comes from Obama and common sense when it comes from the GOP?

Haha, you obviously don't understand politics!

Most people just like being part of a group, and because of the sunk cost fallacy, will almost always ignore feedback from reality after they take sides.

Most people approach politics in the same way they cheer for their favorite sports team.

 

[manimal]

Most people approach politics in the same way they cheer for their favorite sports team.

raiders fans...