Something does not add up with history in the Americas

[Dr. Zaus]

You're telling me that similar environmental circumstances leading to independent development of similar items across cultures is more likely than a ship getting blown off course and landing in the New World?

Do you think a single ship would have done it?

1. Similar religious symbols.
2. Similar alphabetic symbols.
3. Similar symbols of royalty (down to the colors and a winged serpent in both cultures).
4. The legend of Quezcoatl's home place and the name for it being the same as what the ancient Egyptians called their own homeland.
5. The sudden appearance and rapid advancement of Olmec civilization where no advanced civilization once existed.
6. Odd similarities in pottery.

Again, those are just from memory. I'm not convinced on this theory either but it was a very interesting read.

The biblical explanation of a world-flood and later dispersion of peoples after the development of writing is as defensible as aliens or secret trade routs (that is to say that they rely in "look here, evidence" evidence, instead of acceptance of dis-confirming data). It comes down to your world view and how the history you believe in changes how you fulfill your needs in the future; but then so does everything.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

Taking young earthism to new extremes are we?

Edit: Doesn't really matter. Real scientists don't talk in terms of BC and AD anymore. They use the BP designation for times in the past. BP meaning Before Packers.

Well they discovered some bushman signs on a rock near a farm. Scientist said its so many hundreds of years old. Then a lady came forward and said she done those 2 years ago.

So you tell me.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

Well they discovered some bushman signs on a rock near a farm. Scientist said its so many hundreds of years old. Then a lady came forward and said she done those 2 years ago.

So you tell me.

...

I will, indeed, "tell you".

Jesus loves you, now act like it and stop sucking up to the crappy writers of genesis.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

...

I will, indeed, "tell you".

Jesus loves you, now act like it and stop sucking up to the crappy writers of genesis.

Sure Jesus loves you, but does he swallow?

 

[dawp]

Its not just that it took 3,000 years, its that the cultures that traveled the furthest were more advanced then the cultures that stayed in a general geographical area.


South and Central America:
Incas
Mayans
Calendars
Pyramids
Roads
Machu Picchu
Mines

North America:
Pueblo cliff dwellings

not quite, there was the Cahokia in the central us region too, among others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

Indigenous peoples, including Inuit and Eskimo, number 1.9 million in the United States and 800,000 in Canada. It is believed that the ancestors of the Native Americans migrated from northeastern Asia to North America via a prehistoric land bridge across the modern Bering Strait, off Alaska, that existed from about 25,000 to nearly 10,000 years ago. The forebears of the Inuit migrated from Asia by boat some 6,000 years ago. Some 30,000 Inuit live in Greenland.

Microsoft ® Encarta ® 2009. © 1993-2008 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

 

[sourceninja]

Something does not add up.

Oldest human remains in the Americas date to around 11,500 years ago.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110224145551.htm

Other evidence points to around 15,000 year go for humans to be in North America.


Archaeologists have discovered a 12,000-year-old iron oxide mine in Chile.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-archaeologists-uncover-oldest-americas.html

The second oldest mine is in North America, was a copper mine, and dated to between 4,500 and 2,600 years ago.

South American mine - 12,000 years ago
North American mine - 4,500 - 2,600 year ago.

It seems a little strange that humans took so long getting to North America, then went to south America rather quickly, made settlements, and even started mining iron powder.

Why does it seem that the cultures in Central and South America were more advanced then cultures in North America?

Its almost like the people in Central and South America were thousands of years ahead of the people in North America.

Maybe we haven't found anything older yet, or that stuff no longer exists. The problem with history is that it is easy to destroy with later construction.

 

[Triumph]

Something does not add up.

Oldest human remains in the Americas date to around 11,500 years ago.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110224145551.htm

Other evidence points to around 15,000 year go for humans to be in North America.


Archaeologists have discovered a 12,000-year-old iron oxide mine in Chile.

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-05-archaeologists-uncover-oldest-americas.html

The second oldest mine is in North America, was a copper mine, and dated to between 4,500 and 2,600 years ago.

South American mine - 12,000 years ago
North American mine - 4,500 - 2,600 year ago.

It seems a little strange that humans took so long getting to North America, then went to south America rather quickly, made settlements, and even started mining iron powder.

Why does it seem that the cultures in Central and South America were more advanced then cultures in North America?

Its almost like the people in Central and South America were thousands of years ahead of the people in North America.

So ancient Humans came across the bering (sp?) strait, said, "It's too fucking cold here, let's keep going south", and this surprises you?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Do you think a single ship would have done it?

Maybe a small fleet was blown off course? Maybe a small fleet headed west to explore and landed there? To be clear, the theory I read about was that Phoenicians landed in the New World. The Hyksos, rulers of Egypt for a brief period of time, were foreigners and some believe they were Phoenicians.

Short of finding a Phoenician ship buried in Mexico or other obvious artifacts, we may never know for sure. The parallels, IMO, are stunning and while some things may have developed independently, I think the sheer number are just too coincidental.

Similar buildings? OK, maybe you can say those developed independently because those particular designs were the most efficient design for each region due to weather patterns, etc. That's understandable.

The same royal colors and symbols? That's a little harder to swallow as being mere coincidence. The book also outlined some of the symbols used in each culture and their meanings, and the commonalities were striking. Yes, obviously, a symbol for water being wavy lines in each culture isn't anything earth shattering and could be expected, but there were other symbols that were similar which weren't exactly common sense or observation. I don't have the material with me or I'd post more examples.

Honestly, I wish I could read a point-by-point rebuttal of each of his points so that I could weigh the evidence better.

The biblical explanation of a world-flood and later dispersion of peoples after the development of writing is as defensible as aliens or secret trade routs (that is to say that they rely in "look here, evidence" evidence, instead of acceptance of dis-confirming data). It comes down to your world view and how the history you believe in changes how you fulfill your needs in the future; but then so does everything.

If I'm not mistaken, there is archaeological evidence of significant localized flooding in Mesopotamia and other regions thousands of years ago. Now, obviously, this is not a "world-flood" but I can understand how people at the time might have thought that during a particularly bad flooding episode, it was the entire world, since their "world" was so constrained and was such a small geographic area.

At any rate, I didn't say I believe the theory, but I'm not going to be close-minded and ignore it. The evidence is very interesting and obviously mostly circumstantial, but I think it warrants more examination. At the end of the day, the argument is pretty much one of academic interest, as I doubt that if we dug up a Phoenician ship in Mexico tomorrow that it would materially affect life for any of us.

 

[nageov3t]

corn
more domesticatable animals
longer growing seasons

all hastened the evolution from hunter/gatherer to an agricultural society.

 

[FoBoT]

the first people in the americas were in south america, that whole land bridge thing is bogus, the first people in south america came on boats

 

[Dr. Zaus]

the first people in the americas were in south america, that whole land bridge thing is bogus, the first people in south america came on boats

thanks for clearing that up.


good points IndyColtsFan.

 

[Fausto]

You have to be a special kind of special to get tin-foil-hatty about the historical movement of hominids.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Read this

Or watch it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgnmT-Y_rGQ

 

[slightlyhuman]

Mayans...Aztecs....they built pyramids too....

Also...just think how probably far off we are on historical info we think we know ....

In the future they'll probably look back at our ruins and be like.. "and here we see the God they worshipped represented by golden arches...they called him the great Ronald McDonald"

:whiste:

 

[Texashiker]

Short of finding a Phoenician ship buried in Mexico or other obvious artifacts, we may never know for sure. The parallels, IMO, are stunning and while some things may have developed independently, I think the sheer number are just too coincidental.

A few months ago I saw a program on the Discovery channel where the scientist claim to have found wood in south America that came from islands around Australia and Polynesia. The thing was, the wood predated Columbus be several hundred years.

Then there was the sweet potato issue. Scientist are finding evidence that suggest sweet potatoes were introduced to south America from Polynesia, several hundred years before Columbus.

Evidence has been found in California suggesting early people in North America were using boats at 10,000 - 15,000 bc.

Want to read something interesting? A bronze age buckle was found in Alaska. The buckle is thought to have been made in East Asia.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/11/111114112314.htm

If the estimates are right, the buckle traveled hundreds of miles, and landed on North American hundreds (maybe a thousand years) before Columbus.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

You have to be a special kind of special to get tin-foil-hatty about the historical movement of hominids.

Or just somebody who needs to feel that their ethnic group is SPECIAL, DAMMIT.

 

[Howard]

Racist!

 

[bunnyfubbles]

um, clearly the ancient aliens had specific control groups in their experiments and kept them separated

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

the first people in the americas were in south america, that whole land bridge thing is bogus, the first people in south america came on boats

So the place was deserted with no natives living there?

 

[Texashiker]

um, clearly the ancient aliens had specific control groups in their experiments and kept them separated

Maybe you are right?

Aliens approached certain cultures, showed the people certain technology, such as mining and metal working.

The control groups were left alone to see how they developed.

In the end, the developed nations overran and slaughtered the underdeveloped nations.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

Maybe you are right?

Aliens approached certain cultures, showed the people certain technology, such as mining and metal working.

The control groups were left alone to see how they developed.

In the end, the developed nations overran and slaughtered the underdeveloped nations.

Clearly they missed Africa

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Clearly they missed Africa

Actually, the diehard ancient alien supporters claim it all started in Africa, where aliens allegedly created and enslaved humans to mine gold for them. I laugh every time I hear that.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Actually, the diehard ancient alien supporters claim it all started in Africa, where aliens allegedly created and enslaved humans to mine gold for them. I laugh every time I hear that.

which is absurd, because anyone who has ever seen Cowboys and Aliens would know aliens have magical magnets that melt and suck up gold straight from the ground

no need for us to be slaves, although pets/food is another story