Somethign that cannot be explained with science

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decode

Member
Nov 12, 2003
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Concerning the original question: David Hume made two criticisms of science in the 18th century that can easily be converted to simple questions for the teacher's exercise.

1. What causes any one event?
2. What is one event that will happen tomorrow?

1. Science cannot determine causation. Since science is based solely on observation of physical events, it cannot observe that any one event causes another. There is no instrument that can detect cause, and this means that science cannot determine it. I can see color, feel solid objects, and a thermometer can measure temperature, but there is no measurement of cause. An example can make this more clear: A magnet is held near iron filings, and the filings move.
With what do you observe the causation? Many people would say that if this experiment was repeated enough times, you could know that the magnet caused the filings to move. Hume says, what if it was mere coincidence that the filings moved each time that the magnet was brought near? The two events just happened to occur at the same time, with no causation between the two. Science cannot prove or disprove the causation. Hume says that as humans, we are in the habit of assuming causation when two things happen together over and over (constant conjunction). This habit has nothing to do with science, and is merely something the human mind does. The interesting thing about this is that people try claim that science can determine causation, which is simply not true.

2. It is a logical fallacy to predict the future based on events observed in the past. This is similar to point number 1. Perhaps it is just coincidence that the iron filings moved towards the magnet every day for the past 100 years, and tomorrow that will no longer be true. What says that it will happen again in the future? It is nothing more than an assumption of the observer. So, you cannot prove (with science, or anything else) any prediction you make. However, we do this all the time, because tends to work.

A third question of my own is merely a superset of the first question, and is
3. Does anything non-physical exist?
Since science can only make observations of physical phenomena, it simply cannot address this question. Maybe non-physical things exist, maybe they don't, that's beside the point. The point is that science cannot provide us with an answer to the question. I find it interesting that some people say "Science can't say anything about non-physical things, therefore they don't exist." It would seem more logical to recognize that this is simply a limitation of science, and realize that if an answer is to be found, it must be sought elsewhere.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
Originally posted by: wacki
I know of something that your teacher may not be able to explain with science, simply because the answer is so elusive.

Take a beer can, shake it up, put a quarter on a wood table, then place the beer can over the quarter. Open the beer can with one quick snap, do not slowly pop the tab. The beer will foam up a little, but will not spray everywhere. Ask your teacher to explain that with science. It can be explained, but I would be very impressed if your teacher could find the answer.

I'd like to see you explain it... I'd be very impressed... In fact if what you described actually happened, I'd be very impressed... call me skeptical.
 

element

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: wacki
I know of something that your teacher may not be able to explain with science, simply because the answer is so elusive.

Take a beer can, shake it up, put a quarter on a wood table, then place the beer can over the quarter. Open the beer can with one quick snap, do not slowly pop the tab. The beer will foam up a little, but will not spray everywhere. Ask your teacher to explain that with science. It can be explained, but I would be very impressed if your teacher could find the answer.

I'd like to see you explain it... I'd be very impressed... In fact if what you described actually happened, I'd be very impressed... call me skeptical.

Maybe when he said put a quarter on a wood table, he means a quarter of the beer. In other words one fourth of the beer. this way the beer won't overflow because you poured some out.

edit I just re-read it and it sounds more like the time it takes to put the quarter down is enough time for the gas to dissolve back into the liquids.

Thanks Dr. Pizza for the short lesson on Quantum Mech. I didn't get to read it all yet but I will in a few.
 

CarrotNose

Junior Member
Nov 13, 2003
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Originally posted by: Dreadraven
i dunno if anyone said this yet.. but time
how do you explain time and how does it work?

I read somewhere that there is no such thing as time. We only recognize it because of a flaw in our nervous system.
 

goossedump

Junior Member
Jul 20, 2003
22
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you could go forth and talk about how evolution hasn't been proven because it still is theory.. but they teach it in school like its true.


 

OokiiNeko

Senior member
Jun 14, 2003
508
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Skipped through most of this, so if said before, oh well:

1) How does a cat purr? (latest I read, we still don't know for sure)

2) How do yogis control their heartrate? (ie slow it way down so they can stay sealed in a box for a long time and not use up all the oxygen and suffocate).

3) Why does a pyramid keep fruit/vegetable fresh longer than the same fruit/vegetable right next to it? (This one may have been dis-proved, but I haven't seen anything definitive. Links to such studies welcome.)

 

Matthias99

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2003
8,808
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Irregardless, it's a mathematical hypothesis (which is either true, untrue, or unprovable under any particular mathematical system). Science has nothing to do with it. :)
 

wacki

Senior member
Oct 30, 2001
881
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76
Originally posted by: element®
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: wacki
I know of something that your teacher may not be able to explain with science, simply because the answer is so elusive.

Take a beer can, shake it up, put a quarter on a wood table, then place the beer can over the quarter. Open the beer can with one quick snap, do not slowly pop the tab. The beer will foam up a little, but will not spray everywhere. Ask your teacher to explain that with science. It can be explained, but I would be very impressed if your teacher could find the answer.

I'd like to see you explain it... I'd be very impressed... In fact if what you described actually happened, I'd be very impressed... call me skeptical.

Maybe when he said put a quarter on a wood table, he means a quarter of the beer. In other words one fourth of the beer. this way the beer won't overflow because you poured some out.

edit I just re-read it and it sounds more like the time it takes to put the quarter down is enough time for the gas to dissolve back into the liquids.

Thanks Dr. Pizza for the short lesson on Quantum Mech. I didn't get to read it all yet but I will in a few.


No, I didn't mean a quarter of a beer. You try it. Take a quarter (25 cent piece, american currency) place it on a wood table. Shake a budweiser or coors light can that is unopened untill the pressure build up enough that you can no longer squeeze the can. Put the beer can, perfectly centered over the quarter(make sure the bottom of the beer can does not touch the quarter). Once the beer can is over the quarter, quickly "pop" the top or swiftly open the can of beer. If you do it perfectly no foam will come out of the can. If you do it imperfectly, the beer may foam up to the lip of the can and some may spill over, but only a few drops worth of beer. Try it and see, this is no joke.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
167
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Originally posted by: wacki
Originally posted by: element®
Originally posted by: DrPizza
Originally posted by: wacki
I know of something that your teacher may not be able to explain with science, simply because the answer is so elusive.

Take a beer can, shake it up, put a quarter on a wood table, then place the beer can over the quarter. Open the beer can with one quick snap, do not slowly pop the tab. The beer will foam up a little, but will not spray everywhere. Ask your teacher to explain that with science. It can be explained, but I would be very impressed if your teacher could find the answer.

I'd like to see you explain it... I'd be very impressed... In fact if what you described actually happened, I'd be very impressed... call me skeptical.

Maybe when he said put a quarter on a wood table, he means a quarter of the beer. In other words one fourth of the beer. this way the beer won't overflow because you poured some out.

edit I just re-read it and it sounds more like the time it takes to put the quarter down is enough time for the gas to dissolve back into the liquids.

Thanks Dr. Pizza for the short lesson on Quantum Mech. I didn't get to read it all yet but I will in a few.


No, I didn't mean a quarter of a beer. You try it. Take a quarter (25 cent piece, american currency) place it on a wood table. Shake a budweiser or coors light can that is unopened untill the pressure build up enough that you can no longer squeeze the can. Put the beer can, perfectly centered over the quarter(make sure the bottom of the beer can does not touch the quarter). Once the beer can is over the quarter, quickly "pop" the top or swiftly open the can of beer. If you do it perfectly no foam will come out of the can. If you do it imperfectly, the beer may foam up to the lip of the can and some may spill over, but only a few drops worth of beer. Try it and see, this is no joke.

Usually when people include "this is no joke" after "try it and see", it *IS* a joke...
 

wacki

Senior member
Oct 30, 2001
881
0
76
DrPizza

this joke wouldn't be funny unless i saw you get wet, in any case, put on a raincoat and try it outside if your too scared to get wet. Wood chairs will work as well.

but I assure you this is no joke and no foam will come out.