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Someone tell me if this build will work fine...

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Originally posted by: theYipster
Let's back up for a second.... What version of Pro Tools do you plan to use? I believe most versions are tied to specific mixing hardware. I have experience with the desktop / home studio version of Pro Tools which comes with the MBox external sound card / mixer, and it works quite admirably on an Intel iMac (2.16Ghz Core Duo, 2 Gigs of RAM.) I've also seen studio Pro Tools run w/o hiccup on boxes as old as Power Mac G4 Quicksilvers, so I'm not sure if, and/or why there is a need for a true dual processor / SMP motherboard. People are still buying old G4 PowerMacs for Pro Tools work on Craigslist and eBay for a few hundred $$$.

I actually have never used Pro Tools on a PC (since the Mac is so entrenched in audio content creation work,) but if ProTools works fine on old Macs, then my guess is you wont need a powerful PC for most versions. Actually, since you're constantly writing and reading from the hard disk, it may be better to invest in a fast Raptor SATA drive, or for even better performance, Serial Attached SCSI (although you'd need a serious add-on card or a server motherboard for the later.)

Mark.
Click to expand...

I use PTLE 7.1. It seems to run better on macs than PCs.. I know this cause I have a macbook that I use it on for mobile tracking.. PCs running pro tools seem to require more beefing up in order to run a good amount of plugins. My old dell can run PT fine but once I put any reverb plugs on anything the CPU is completely drained. My goal is to have ample power to be able to run more plugins simultaneously than I'd ever need, so a really beefed up PC for mixing would be ideal since I cant afford a mac pro.
 
Originally posted by: theYipster
Let's back up for a second.... What version of Pro Tools do you plan to use? I believe most versions are tied to specific mixing hardware. I have experience with the desktop / home studio version of Pro Tools which comes with the MBox external sound card / mixer, and it works quite admirably on an Intel iMac (2.16Ghz Core Duo, 2 Gigs of RAM.) I've also seen studio Pro Tools run w/o hiccup on boxes as old as Power Mac G4 Quicksilvers, so I'm not sure if, and/or why there is a need for a true dual processor / SMP motherboard. People are still buying old G4 PowerMacs for Pro Tools work on Craigslist and eBay for a few hundred $$$.

I actually have never used Pro Tools on a PC (since the Mac is so entrenched in audio content creation work,) but if ProTools works fine on old Macs, then my guess is you wont need a powerful PC for most versions. Actually, since you're constantly writing and reading from the hard disk, it may be better to invest in a fast Raptor SATA drive, or for even better performance, Serial Attached SCSI (although you'd need a serious add-on card or a server motherboard for the later.)

Mark.
Click to expand...

How old Mac's run and PC's run can be quite a difference.

However, when buying any new PC today, it's better to just go dual core since it's almost everywhere now. If something new came out for him to use, then he'd be good to go.

 
Well if you know that it runs well on a Macbook, which uses standard Intel parts, then you can expect it to run equivalently well or better on a C2D system. On the otherhand, Digidesign may have very well spent a lot more time optimizing ProTools for OS X than for Windows. Although I have no official statistics, I wager that 80-90% of machines running Pro Tools are Macs, which suggests that for the best performance and support, you'd probably be best off running Pro Tools on a Mac yourself.

If you can't afford a Mac Pro, then look for a used G5 or G4... Try it out if you can before you buy it, because you may have a much better experience in the end. I know that Pro Tools was a beast with PowerPC chips, so you may find that an older (and much cheaper) Power PC provides comparable performance to anything you could build today in PC land.

Mark.
 
Originally posted by: bierce85
Thanks guys I'm really grateful for you clearing everything up for me. The dual-processor confusion stemmed from someone writing "x2" next to "athlon" in their listed specs, leading me to believe they were using two separate athlon processors with a motherboard that only had a single processor space, not realising the x2 is a type of athlon. This lead me to believe you could run two processors on just about any board. dumbass 😱

Anyway right now I'm looking at intel. Digidesign seems to have tested more intel motherboards to work with their software and hardware than anything else and if I'm gonna go with one dual core processor that seems to be the smart choice.

Would it probably be safe to say that the provided cooling with the Lian li cases would be enough?
Click to expand...

Yes, newer processors actually run a lot cooler nowadays. Stock cooling can go a long ways now, even with a little bit of overclocking. They aren'tj ust increasing processor power, but they are making them more heat/energy efficient as well.

And no, your not a dumbass. You came to the right place to get the information you needed, before spending tons of money on things that wouldnt' work. :thumbsup:
 
Originally posted by: theYipster
Well if you know that it runs well on a Macbook, which uses standard Intel parts, then you can expect it to run equivalently well or better on a C2D system. On the otherhand, Digidesign may have very well spent a lot more time optimizing ProTools for OS X than for Windows. Although I have no official statistics, I wager that 80-90% of machines running Pro Tools are Macs, which suggests that for the best performance and support, you'd probably be best off running Pro Tools on a Mac yourself.

If you can't afford a Mac Pro, then look for a used G5 or G4... Try it out if you can before you buy it, because you may have a much better experience in the end. I know that Pro Tools was a beast with PowerPC chips, so you may find that an older (and much cheaper) Power PC provides comparable performance to anything you could build today in PC land.

Mark.
Click to expand...

80-90%???

Unless this was originally created to be run on Macs, I doubt it's anywhere near that number. Find out where it was optimized for Mac's, and we'll continue that discussion. When was the last time you ran Pro Tools on a Intel or AMD dual core PC?

You are forgetting his other requirements listed, or just not paying attention to it. There is a need for more storage space, and performance boosts can be easily gained on a PC through ugprades than on a Mac.

Edit:
Hmm....

Looks like a lot more compatability issues with OS X. Especially with software updates.
 
Originally posted by: Tarrant64
You are forgetting his other requirements listed, or just not paying attention to it. There is a need for more storage space, and performance boosts can be easily gained on a PC through ugprades than on a Mac.
Click to expand...


Woah! I disgree...

I'm building a computer strictly for Digidesign Pro Tools (audio recording and mixing software). I need lots of processing power and this is what I'm going with at the moment. I plan on using some components from my old Dell PC. These would include the CD burner, DVD drive, an NVidia 5400 FX video card (dinosaur) , and a maxtor 320 GB SATA hard drive. PLEASE someone tell me if this will all work. I am a recording engineer, NOT a computer expert. Also, I'd like to know if I will need to buy a heat sink to go with this since it's dual processors. Will the fans included in the case do the job? Thank you kind computer people!!
Click to expand...

So the OP says he's not a computer expert and is trying to build a new computer with new parts and parts salvaged from an old Dell. What I'm trying to say is, well, maybe you don't need lots of processing power. Maybe, Pro Tools on an old $200 G4 PowerMac will run just as well as Pro Tools on a new Core Duo 2 system... So why shouldn't I suggest looking at that option as an alternative?

Btw, I've setup home, personal recording and mixing stations for my aunt and some of her colleges, who are all country music songwriters and recording artists. I believe I know a good bit about the audio creation and recording market, and it's far more Mac based than PC. I've been to many Nashville recording studios over the last several years, and guess what, they're all running Macs. My alma-matter had several recording studios in the art building, each running Pro Tools, each on a Mac. Go to the NYC or SF Craiglist and type ProTools in the search bar. On the first page alone, I see many Macs for sale, along with specific Pro Tools gear. Any PCs? Nope. Again, I'd wager that ProTools runs 80-90% on Mac... Nothing to back me up but my experience, and the fact that I've never seen Pro Tools on a PC used in a professional environment. Even if it's less, there is no doubting that the Mac / Pro Tools community is stronger than the PC one, and that to me is worth something when running such a highly specialized piece of software.

Mark.
Click to expand...
 
Alright, I've got a new list. Tell me what you guys think! (and many many thanks for using your time to help me!)

Intel BLKD975XBX2KR motherboard (975x chipset tested to work with PT)
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz processor
G.SKILL 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2000JS 200GB
LIAN LI PC-7B
SeaSonic S12-330 ATX12V 330W Power Supply

Still planning on using the SATA HD and CD drives I already have.

I think I'm going to experiment with just the one GB of ram for now seeing as I only have 1512 on my dell running pro tools, and its really old DDR 400 RAM I believe, and I havent run into a RAM related problem yet -- only processing problems. If I end up needing more ram, I'll get it.

Also, I plan on using the Windows XP installation disk I got with the dell 4 years ago. It's XP home and I figure I can just download all the updates as need be. Would this work ok? I'm wondering if the fact that it was made for dell (friend of mine installed it on his emachines PC and now the dell logo pops up when he turnes it on) would hinder the performance at all?
 
Originally posted by: theYipster

So the OP says he's not a computer expert and is trying to build a new computer with new parts and parts salvaged from an old Dell. What I'm trying to say is, well, maybe you don't need lots of processing power. Maybe, Pro Tools on an old $200 G4 PowerMac will run just as well as Pro Tools on a new Core Duo 2 system... So why shouldn't I suggest looking at that option as an alternative?

Btw, I've setup home, personal recording and mixing stations for my aunt and some of her colleges, who are all country music songwriters and recording artists. I believe I know a good bit about the audio creation and recording market, and it's far more Mac based than PC. I've been to many Nashville recording studios over the last several years, and guess what, they're all running Macs. My alma-matter had several recording studios in the art building, each running Pro Tools, each on a Mac. Go to the NYC or SF Craiglist and type ProTools in the search bar. On the first page alone, I see many Macs for sale, along with specific Pro Tools gear. Any PCs? Nope. Again, I'd wager that ProTools runs 80-90% on Mac... Nothing to back me up but my experience, and the fact that I've never seen Pro Tools on a PC used in a professional environment. Even if it's less, there is no doubting that the Mac / Pro Tools community is stronger than the PC one, and that to me is worth something when running such a highly specialized piece of software.

Mark.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice yipster, but for a few reasons I'd rather have a PC. One, I want something I can continue to upgrade, and an old g4 pretty much is what is is.. Two, I have a program called izotope ozone which I use for mastering and it only runs on a PC. Third, I don't think a G4 with decent specs will be that cheap. $200 might be a bit of an overstatement.

As for everyone using macs, I think its just kind of a trend. Also, for those people running commercial studios it doesnt really matter which they run pro tools on since Pro Tools HD uses a PCI card to do all of its processing, so basically it just comes down to which OS they like better. And since macs run pro tools a little smoother and everyone uses them they all just go with macs. Also, transfering PC files from a mac to a PC is a pain in the ass, so they might as well all use the same OS.

Bill
 
Fair enough,

I wouldn't call Pro Tools on Mac a trend though. Professional content creation, whether graphics design, audio content, or av post production, has always favored the Mac and continues to do so to this day. I see no reason why this wouldn't continue. In fact, there is still a huge market for PowerMac G5s, with people grabbing whatever they can, as CS3 won't be out until the end of the month. (Also consider that the other Mac audio powerhouse tool is Logic, which will never be on a PC... As for MIDI though, I'm a fan of Reason beyond anything else.)

Btw, my girlfriend has been trying to get rid of her late model G4 Quicksilver, as she bought a new Macbook to replace it several months ago. It has a 933Mhz processor and 1 Gig of RAM (I think.) We're looking for about $200-$250.

Also, add-on boards, whether PCI or PCI/E are often tied to a certain OS due to driver requirements. I'm not familiar with the plethora of Digidesign cards out there, but I wouldn't be surprised if some were tied to Mac only or PC only. On the other hand, the USB units will work on both.

Lastly, for more insight on the topic, just google "ProTools Mac or PC." Tons of forums with people asking for advice on the issue. Most do recommend Mac.

Good luck with your build,

Mark.
 
Originally posted by: bierce85
Originally posted by: theYipster

So the OP says he's not a computer expert and is trying to build a new computer with new parts and parts salvaged from an old Dell. What I'm trying to say is, well, maybe you don't need lots of processing power. Maybe, Pro Tools on an old $200 G4 PowerMac will run just as well as Pro Tools on a new Core Duo 2 system... So why shouldn't I suggest looking at that option as an alternative?

Btw, I've setup home, personal recording and mixing stations for my aunt and some of her colleges, who are all country music songwriters and recording artists. I believe I know a good bit about the audio creation and recording market, and it's far more Mac based than PC. I've been to many Nashville recording studios over the last several years, and guess what, they're all running Macs. My alma-matter had several recording studios in the art building, each running Pro Tools, each on a Mac. Go to the NYC or SF Craiglist and type ProTools in the search bar. On the first page alone, I see many Macs for sale, along with specific Pro Tools gear. Any PCs? Nope. Again, I'd wager that ProTools runs 80-90% on Mac... Nothing to back me up but my experience, and the fact that I've never seen Pro Tools on a PC used in a professional environment. Even if it's less, there is no doubting that the Mac / Pro Tools community is stronger than the PC one, and that to me is worth something when running such a highly specialized piece of software.

Mark.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice yipster, but for a few reasons I'd rather have a PC. One, I want something I can continue to upgrade, and an old g4 pretty much is what is is.. Two, I have a program called izotope ozone which I use for mastering and it only runs on a PC. Third, I don't think a G4 with decent specs will be that cheap. $200 might be a bit of an overstatement.

As for everyone using macs, I think its just kind of a trend. Also, for those people running commercial studios it doesnt really matter which they run pro tools on since Pro Tools HD uses a PCI card to do all of its processing, so basically it just comes down to which OS they like better. And since macs run pro tools a little smoother and everyone uses them they all just go with macs. Also, transfering PC files from a mac to a PC is a pain in the ass, so they might as well all use the same OS.

Bill
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:




 
Originally posted by: theYipster
Fair enough,

I wouldn't call Pro Tools on Mac a trend though. Professional content creation, whether graphics design, audio content, or av post production, has always favored the Mac and continues to do so to this day. I see no reason why this wouldn't continue. In fact, there is still a huge market for PowerMac G5s, with people grabbing whatever they can, as CS3 won't be out until the end of the month. (Also consider that the other Mac audio powerhouse tool is Logic, which will never be on a PC... As for MIDI though, I'm a fan of Reason beyond anything else.)

Btw, my girlfriend has been trying to get rid of her late model G4 Quicksilver, as she bought a new Macbook to replace it several months ago. It has a 933Mhz processor and 1 Gig of RAM (I think.) We're looking for about $200-$250.
Also, add-on boards, whether PCI or PCI/E are often tied to a certain OS due to driver requirements. I'm not familiar with the plethora of Digidesign cards out there, but I wouldn't be surprised if some were tied to Mac only or PC only. On the other hand, the USB units will work on both.

Lastly, for more insight on the topic, just google "ProTools Mac or PC." Tons of forums with people asking for advice on the issue. Most do recommend Mac.

Good luck with your build,

Mark.
Click to expand...


No offense. But old. At least, I think so...
G5's are still in the market yes, and people still leap at the chance to get a used one, however if you notice, the prices are not cheap. Brand new PC's can be had cheaper.






 
Originally posted by: bierce85
Alright, I've got a new list. Tell me what you guys think! (and many many thanks for using your time to help me!)

Intel BLKD975XBX2KR motherboard (975x chipset tested to work with PT)
<a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbar...t/product.asp?item=N82E16819115003</a>">Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz processor</a>
G.SKILL 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2000JS 200GB
LIAN LI PC-7B
SeaSonic S12-330 ATX12V 330W Power Supply

Still planning on using the SATA HD and CD drives I already have.

I think I'm going to experiment with just the one GB of ram for now seeing as I only have 1512 on my dell running pro tools, and its really old DDR 400 RAM I believe, and I havent run into a RAM related problem yet -- only processing problems. If I end up needing more ram, I'll get it.

Also, I plan on using the Windows XP installation disk I got with the dell 4 years ago. It's XP home and I figure I can just download all the updates as need be. Would this work ok? I'm wondering if the fact that it was made for dell (friend of mine installed it on his emachines PC and now the dell logo pops up when he turnes it on) would hinder the performance at all?
Click to expand...

Hey now, dont' skimp on the power supply. You will cry later when your system won't boot. 500W+ FTW. Also, with this upgrade you are looking at needing a new video card. Anything cheap will do, but you have to take into account you are stepping into PCIe territory now. AGP is no longer good.

I know this is a lot of information for you, especially if you haven't been in the PC shopping market for some time. Don't hesitate to ask questions!!! Plenty of people here have solutions for just about...anything.
 
Originally posted by: Tarrant64

No offense. But old. At least, I think so...
G5's are still in the market yes, and people still leap at the chance to get a used one, however if you notice, the prices are not cheap. Brand new PC's can be had cheaper.
Click to expand...

The reason people have been jumping at G5s is because there is still a lot of software, including Adobe CS (until later this month,) that is still Power PC native. Running said software with the fastest, natively compatible hardware available has its advantages, which is why G5s are still in demand and are at such a premium.

Pro Tools is a different story. As Bill said, Pro Tools HD uses a PCI card for processing. In fact, to my knowledge, all versions require specific add-on hardware. The version I'm most familiar with uses a USB breakout-box soundcard / mixer that you can pick up at Sam Ash for a hundred or so. Given this, Pro Tools is less reliant on internal hardware specs than a program like Photoshop will be (at least for the Mac.)

The pricing of my gf's old comp is pretty much in line with what we've seen on Craigslist and eBay, and many of the descriptions of these units note that they're still great for audio creation. If anything, the reason we don't jack up the price is because we're not including tons of "free" (and questionably obtained) software on the hard drive. You get just the PC and a nice, fresh install of 10.4

Mark.
 
Originally posted by: theYipster
Originally posted by: Tarrant64

No offense. But old. At least, I think so...
G5's are still in the market yes, and people still leap at the chance to get a used one, however if you notice, the prices are not cheap. Brand new PC's can be had cheaper.
Click to expand...

The reason people have been jumping at G5s is because there is still a lot of software, including Adobe CS (until later this month,) that is still Power PC native. Running said software with the fastest, natively compatible hardware available has its advantages, which is why G5s are still in demand and are at such a premium.

Pro Tools is a different story. As Bill said, Pro Tools HD uses a PCI card for processing. In fact, to my knowledge, all versions require specific add-on hardware. The version I'm most familiar with uses a USB breakout-box soundcard / mixer that you can pick up at Sam Ash for a hundred or so. Given this, Pro Tools is less reliant on internal hardware specs than a program like Photoshop will be (at least for the Mac.)

The pricing of my gf's old comp is pretty much in line with what we've seen on Craigslist and eBay, and many of the descriptions of these units note that they're still great for audio creation. If anything, the reason we don't jack up the price is because we're not including tons of "free" (and questionably obtained) software on the hard drive. You get just the PC and a nice, fresh install of 10.4

Mark.
Click to expand...

Yes, G5's are nice, but most C2D machines will walk all over it. Maybe I'm wrong. Dig up a benchmark.
 
Not if you're running software that was written for the Power PC architecture, which has to go through the Rosetta translation layer. Every benchmark that has pitted Adobe CS2 Mac running on a Mac Pro w/ a Woodcrest or Cloverton CPU against Adobe CS2 Mac running on a PowerMac G5 has the G5 coming on top. This is very common knowledge, and it's why people are buying G5s at a premium. There is still Mac software that people use which is only compiled for Power PC.

Yes, a C2D is a better architecture, and software compiled for it will generally be faster than software compiled for a G5, but software compiled for a G5 suffers tremendously when running on Core Duo / Core 2 Duo architecture.

Now I'm back to work, as I don't have time to argue common knowledge. Besides, we're getting very off topic here.

Mark.
 
Originally posted by: theYipster
Not if you're running software that was written for the Power PC architecture, which has to go through the Rosetta translation layer. Every benchmark that has pitted Adobe CS2 Mac running on a Mac Pro w/ a Woodcrest or Cloverton CPU against Adobe CS2 Mac running on a PowerMac G5 has the G5 coming on top. This is very common knowledge, and it's why people are buying G5s at a premium. There is still Mac software that people use which is only compiled for Power PC.

Yes, a C2D is a better architecture, and software compiled for it will generally be faster than software compiled for a G5, but software compiled for a G5 suffers tremendously when running on Core Duo / Core 2 Duo architecture.

Now I'm back to work, as I don't have time to argue common knowledge. Besides, we're getting very off topic here.

Mark.
Click to expand...

Ok?

I didn't mean for the topic to sway towards native software for a Mac being faster on G5's than on C2D's. Going back a little I though I think buying an older Mac based on G4-G5 is a waste just for native software. But...whatever.





OP?
 
"Hey now, dont' skimp on the power supply. You will cry later when your system won't boot. 500W+ FTW. Also, with this upgrade you are looking at needing a new video card. Anything cheap will do, but you have to take into account you are stepping into PCIe territory now. AGP is no longer good.

I know this is a lot of information for you, especially if you haven't been in the PC shopping market for some time. Don't hesitate to ask questions!!! Plenty of people here have solutions for just about...anything."


500+ Watt? On a recording system? I am sorry, but that is just very bad advice. The SeaSonic he suggested is a very good choice.
But you are right about the video card, the OP needs a new PCI-E card. A Radeon X500 or Geforce 7100 for instance, would be fine. They might seem like a bit overkill, but I know that CuBase can use the video card for some of the graphics, and I think ProTools can as well. Be sure to get one with passive cooling.

Only 1 gig of RAM is a mistake. Get 2.

You might want to consider getting a replacement fan for the CPU. The stock one is good, but you can get replacements which are very quiet.
 
Well if the OP goes for additional hard drives, it might be a better idea to at least go 400. I still think while he has the opportunity might as well future proof. If he ever wants to do anything more in the future he'll have the power supply to do so.
 
Originally posted by: bierce85
Alright, I've got a new list. Tell me what you guys think! (and many many thanks for using your time to help me!)

Intel BLKD975XBX2KR motherboard (975x chipset tested to work with PT)
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 Conroe 2.4GHz processor
G.SKILL 1GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800
Western Digital Caviar SE WD2000JS 200GB
LIAN LI PC-7B
SeaSonic S12-330 ATX12V 330W Power Supply

Still planning on using the SATA HD and CD drives I already have.

I think I'm going to experiment with just the one GB of ram for now seeing as I only have 1512 on my dell running pro tools, and its really old DDR 400 RAM I believe, and I havent run into a RAM related problem yet -- only processing problems. If I end up needing more ram, I'll get it.

Also, I plan on using the Windows XP installation disk I got with the dell 4 years ago. It's XP home and I figure I can just download all the updates as need be. Would this work ok? I'm wondering if the fact that it was made for dell (friend of mine installed it on his emachines PC and now the dell logo pops up when he turnes it on) would hinder the performance at all?
Click to expand...


You are on the right track

Upgrade the PS to at least 400 watts and add a cheap PCI-e video card and you should be good
 
330 Watts is a little over the minimum he would probably need. I don't think it's ever a good idea to be just at that. You never know if you want to add something later, say another PCI sound card for whatever reason. Eventually the 330W PS is pushing it.

Also, not every PS that says 330W can actually handle that. Quality of the PS makes a difference too. I'm not saying the SeaSonic isn't sufficient, but a power supply is the one thing you never want to skimp on, you know?

For $10-$15 more he might as well get a 400W+ PS.
 
Hey guys.. back from work. Thanks again for all the info. I'm probably going to buy this PC within the next few days.
 
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