Someone recommended that I start watching Doctor Who

[Mike64]

i politely disagree.

let me ask you, did you like that scene when Gillian rips her police hat off and yells "i'm a kissagram!" ?

Yes, of course you did. We all did. She's easy on the eyes. But her character disrupts the way the Doctor shows are set up.

1. premise 2. the doctor waders around like a retard, stumbles into the premise 3. doctor and friends act scared, they run, try to solve the problem by talking or something 4. the bad guy does something bad or corners the doctor 5. the doctor rips a new asshole on the bad guy 6. conclusion "oh shit, we didn't know the doctor was so awesome".

The formula is that the doctor is this awesome alien who will deus ex machina everything at the last second, and the dumb sidekicks are the public, so he has someone stupid to explain the plot to.

In the Pond / Clara era they made the doctor into an actual incompetent idiot, and the sidekick into the hero. Because women's liberation, 2016, safespaces, whatever. Let's mix the formula and give the audience someone to relate to.
But it doesn't work that way, you can't feel anymore that the doctor has saved you from the daleks, because 9/10 we are the ones saving him from the daleks.

I also really did not like the post-Tennant era because while with Ecclestone / Tennat they sought to explore the psychology of this tormented soul who has lost everything, and who has this enormous power to destroy, while being the only one who can stay his own hand, with Smith and Capaldi they seem to have found themselves incapable of moving forward with the character, so they re-wrote it, making first Smith childish and incompetent, then Capaldi into brooding but incompetent.

Changing the formula is like changing the taste of Coke. I don't want Watson solving crimes and Sherlock being the one who asks "But, how!?", because the formula is what makes the show what it is.

ETA: Just for record, as you'll see from the original post quoted in the next one, I edited my original post quite a bit, but only to flesh it out...

Actually, I thought the specific scene you mention (bolded in the quote above) was one of the dumber bits, but as such, I had basically forgotten all about it..

Otherwise, it's funny how two people who basically like the same show can, apparently, have such different takes on it. As in, I pretty much disagree with everything you wrote. But then, while I've always been a diehard "sci-fi" fan in general, I've never gotten that heavily invested in any particular show/format/formula. I think changing the sidekicks (and even Doctors) provides "Interest" in what could very easily become a really boringly formulaic concept without fundamentally changing the basic character of the show... (As an example of that, I got so-o-o tired of Startrek TNG's if-this-is-Tuesday-it-must-be-the-Andromeda-Galaxy "continuation" of the original series, which at least had novelty on its side and then didn't last long enough to get boring itself...)

 

[MongGrel]

Wow. I basically disagree with everything you wrote. But then, while I've always been a diehard "sci-fi" fan in general, I've never gotten that heavily invested in any particular show/format/formula. I think changing the sidekicks (and even Doctors) provides "Interest" in what could very easily become a really boringly formulaic concept (I got so-o-o tired of Startrek TNG's "if this is Tuesday, it must be the Andromeda Galaxy" thing, for example) without fundamentally changing the basic character of the show...

One of he best things about Doctor Who is they way they have the flexibility it to change over time myself.

It was a incidental thing originally, and has driven the show over the years afterwards.

Is why it has endured so long.

It's all good fun, basically if you do not enjoy the show don't watch it I suppose.

 

[Timorous]

i politely disagree.

let me ask you, did you like that scene when Gillian rips her police hat off and yells "i'm a kissagram!" ?

Yes, of course you did. We all did. She's easy on the eyes. But her character disrupts the way the Doctor shows are set up.

1. premise 2. the doctor waders around like a retard, stumbles into the premise 3. doctor and friends act scared, they run, try to solve the problem by talking or something 4. the bad guy does something bad or corners the doctor 5. the doctor rips a new asshole on the bad guy 6. conclusion "oh shit, we didn't know the doctor was so awesome".

The formula is that the doctor is this awesome alien who will deus ex machina everything at the last second, and the dumb sidekicks are the public, so he has someone stupid to explain the plot to.

In the Pond / Clara era they made the doctor into an actual incompetent idiot, and the sidekick into the hero. Because women's liberation, 2016, safespaces, whatever. Let's mix the formula and give the audience someone to relate to.
But it doesn't work that way, you can't feel anymore that the doctor has saved you from the daleks, because 9/10 we are the ones saving him from the daleks.

I also really did not like the post-Tennant era because while with Ecclestone / Tennat they sought to explore the psychology of this tormented soul who has lost everything, and who has this enormous power to destroy, while being the only one who can stay his own hand, with Smith and Capaldi they seem to have found themselves incapable of moving forward with the character, so they re-wrote it, making first Smith childish and incompetent, then Capaldi into brooding but incompetent.

Changing the formula is like changing the taste of Coke. I don't want Watson solving crimes and Sherlock being the one who asks "But, how!?", because the formula is what makes the show what it is.

No reason you have to like Moffat era Dr Who but the reason you have provided is BS.

Spoilers

Spoiler

Season 1 ends with Rose becoming God and doing all the Deus Ex Machining.
Season 2 ends with the Dr losing Rose.
Season 3 ends with Martha doing the Deus Ex Machining to save Dobby Dr.
Season 4 ends with Donna doing the Deus Ex Machining to become Dr Donna.

The stuff you complain about is not exactly limited to Moffat Dr Who.

 

[BarkingGhostar]

The Dr. Who Tom Baker years (1974 to 1981) are still my favorite. Couldn't get into the reboot.

Agreed! That was when I started watching in 1977. I was twelve and hooked. I had no idea PBS existed until then.

 

[DigDog]

Well, Sherlock Holmes has been portrayed by the Basil Rathborne era, which sticks to the original format, by Elementary, which gives it a modern twist, by Sherlock, which melds the two, by Sherlock Holmes (Rober Downing) which turns it into an action adventure, but they *all* stick to the same formula - Holmes is the crazy, intuitive and quite asocial genius, and Watson is the down to earth sidekick that we get exposition from.

@Timorous

Rose becomes "god" by accidentally opening the tardis (or rather the tardis allowing itself to become opened so IT can save the doctor), and is more of a pawn in the scheme of things. At NO point during the series does she ever say "ha ha doctor you are so dumb i am so much smarter than you" which Clara and Emily do every.single.time.

i'm cool with the sidekicks having their 15 minutes of fame. i'm also cool with Watson showing up at the last second and shooting Moriarty in the back. Not cool with them taking the lead.

 

[Mike64]

It is all supposed to be a bit of mindless fun to begin with, as far as I'm concerned

Better yet, imo/afaic, mindless-but-not-inane, as so many other "fun" TV shows tend to be...

 

[MongGrel]

Better yet, imo/afaic, mindless-but-not-inane, as so many other "fun" TV shows tend to be...

 

[Timorous]

Well, Sherlock Holmes has been portrayed by the Basil Rathborne era, which sticks to the original format, by Elementary, which gives it a modern twist, by Sherlock, which melds the two, by Sherlock Holmes (Rober Downing) which turns it into an action adventure, but they *all* stick to the same formula - Holmes is the crazy, intuitive and quite asocial genius, and Watson is the down to earth sidekick that we get exposition from.

@Timorous

Rose becomes "god" by accidentally opening the tardis (or rather the tardis allowing itself to become opened so IT can save the doctor), and is more of a pawn in the scheme of things. At NO point during the series does she ever say "ha ha doctor you are so dumb i am so much smarter than you" which Clara and Emily do every.single.time.

i'm cool with the sidekicks having their 15 minutes of fame. i'm also cool with Watson showing up at the last second and shooting Moriarty in the back. Not cool with them taking the lead.

So how do you differentiate 15 minutes of fame and taking the lead? When exactly have Amy / Clara taken the lead in your mind?

 

[DigDog]

everywhere

 

[Timorous]

everywhere

So you are saying Amy took the lead in Eleventh Hour when the Dr was the one with the solution, and he was the one to tell the aliens off? Or that Clara took the lead in Mummy on the Orient Express when it was the Dr that figured it out while Clara sat twiddling her thumbs. I could go on but your assertion is nonsense.

 

[MongGrel]

So you are saying Amy took the lead in Eleventh Hour when the Dr was the one with the solution, and he was the one to tell the aliens off? Or that Clara took the lead in Mummy on the Orient Express when it was the Dr that figured it out while Clara sat twiddling her thumbs. I could go on but your assertion is nonsense.

You seem to be well versed in your Who Knowledge

I wasn't a huge fan myself pre 2005 myself, I'll admit.

I became hooked around then.

Red Dwarf was prior to that.

*checks around for Emohawks*

 

[DigDog]

if i spend an hour quoting all the times when it happened, what do i win ?

 

[Carson Dyle]

Should I just skip it and watch something else.

This.

Anything else.

 

[MongGrel]

 

[MongGrel]

 

[zinfamous]

Go with classic Tom Baker. The man has a HUGE scarf

That's the only Dr Who I know. that 70s/80s guys right? Back when they were fighting walking bushes or trashcans or something? Strange show, never could get into it. But I always wanted a scarf like that. I thought it would make me the fanciest kid in the 2nd grade.

 

[MongGrel]

That's the only Dr Who I know. that 70s/80s guys right? Back when they were fighting walking bushes or trashcans or something? Strange show, never could get into it. But I always wanted a scarf like that. I thought it would make me the fanciest kid in the 2nd grade.

The newer ones are pretty fun to watch.

I still want a TARDIS.

Maybe check em out sometime

 

[Kaido]

I always introduce people to Dr. Who by having them watch Blink. Season 3, episode 10.

 

[Charmonium]

Blink is a great timey-whimey episode.

 

[nakedfrog]

I always introduce people to Dr. Who by having them watch Blink. Season 3, episode 10.

Was actually the first of the new series I saw, and that got me in. Solid.

 

[ImpulsE69]

If you think Dr. Who is too campy, watch the first 3 seasons of Torchwood first. It's a spinoff of Dr. Who and much more dark toned and serious. S1 to get invested, S2 to ramp it up a bit and S3 to blow your mind. Then stop cause season 4 is not so great.

 

[Kaido]

Was actually the first of the new series I saw, and that got me in. Solid.

I wish all episodes were of that caliber, but from what I understand, it's huge in the UK for kids & for girls, especially younger girls, so they try to keep it pretty fun.

If they're in the mood for a second one, I usually screen The Empty Child after Blink. Are you my mummy?