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Some Star Trek thoughts...

StrangerGuy

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
How would a military like Starfleet manage to attract enough people into their ranks when everyone in the society has their material needs and wants satisfied with post scarcity technology. I for one would probably spend a lifetime in a holodeck trying out crazy things and living fantasies.
 
you could stay where you were born and live a comfortable life...or you could get on a starship and see who knows what different type of places.
 
lupi said:
you could stay where you were born and live a comfortable life...or you could get on a starship and see who knows what different type of places.
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Exactly. See the galaxy. Discover new life. Shoot and/or eat said new life.😛
 
StrangerGuy said:
How would a military like Starfleet manage to attract enough people into their ranks when everyone in the society has their material needs and wants satisfied with post scarcity technology. I for one would probably spend a lifetime in a holodeck trying out crazy things and living fantasies.
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It wouldn't work, everyone would be in the holodeck banging holographic versions of troy and crusher and eating holographic chocolate cake.
 
lupi said:
you could stay where you were born and live a comfortable life...or you could get on a starship and see who knows what different type of places.
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This. Starfleet is full of explorers. I know if I won a huge lottery tomorrow, I'd quit my job and explore the world more.
 
I grew up watching the original Star Trek series and always assumed the setting to be a future where mankind had evolved some pretty lofty ideals. Racial integration of Starfleet, acceptance of women and even alien characters as equal to white males. Poverty, hunger, greed and selfishness had been overcome to a large degree. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." All this back in the 60's when Bonanza and Leave it to Beaver were more of the television norms.

On an Earth where your material needs and wants are taken care of, this allows for the best of the best to aspire to more noble goals. Thus, Starfleet.

I always understood it to be 60's, hippie, free love, anti-capitalism scifi, with the holodeck representing drugs. Maybe I read too much into it, or as Shatner said"...for crying out loud, it's just a TV show! You've turned an enjoyable little job, that I did as a lark for a few years, into a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME!"
 
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Jeff7 said:
Assuming the holodeck doesn't bring down civilization, this would be the next step.
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At the point where we can create "real" virtual reality through perpetually self maintaining machinery, civilization becomes redundant. Perhaps we don't see other intelligent life because it's technologically simpler to bring a universe to yourself where you can be a god than to travel between stars.
 
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Jeff7 said:
Assuming the holodeck doesn't bring down civilization, this would be the next step.
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"Homeopathy is what happened when snake oil salesmen discovered that water is cheaper than snake oil."

You, sir, have one of the best sigs on ATOT. My wife makes high quality, natural bath and spa products, and I get into countless arguments with the snake oil, junk science, natural crowd who wonder in to her shop. I almost cried the day some lady asked for coconut oil to cure her cancer.

/offtopic
 
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StrangerGuy said:
How would a military like Starfleet manage to attract enough people into their ranks when everyone in the society has their material needs and wants satisfied with post scarcity technology. I for one would probably spend a lifetime in a holodeck trying out crazy things and living fantasies.
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That's kind of like asking why would anyone want to join the Navy and make something of themselves and find a mate and make a family when they could just stay home and live off of government welfare and foodstamps while living out fantasies in video games.
 
StrangerGuy said:
How would a military like Starfleet manage to attract enough people into their ranks when everyone in the society has their material needs and wants satisfied with post scarcity technology. I for one would probably spend a lifetime in a holodeck trying out crazy things and living fantasies.
Click to expand...

That question has been debated since William Shatner still had hair.

I suppose people do it for the thrill of exploration. What about menial jobs though? Robots don't seem to be commonplace in the Trek universe. Voyager hints that holograms do some menial jobs but it's never shown or mentioned before that. Which means there's someone out there unclogging toilets, tending bar, or cleaning up puke on the holodeck. When they do have an episode set on Earth, regular humans are shown filling these roles.

You're not going to find very many people who would do these jobs voluntarily. Which means Earth's government probably has to assign jobs. Probably based on aptitude. The best and brightest are the ones who serve in Starfleet. The rest get lumped into roles that they're best suited at, or what ever is in demand at the time.

Now, under a communist system, you are still given a monetary reward for your work. The government pays you, and you spend your money at the government store to buy goods. In the Trek universe, money does not exist. All material needs and wants are provided for free via replicators. Health care seems to be free as well. Since there's no money, and no barter system shown, everything else must be free. So a person does not need to trade their labour for goods or services.

In that case, Earth's government would likely have to employ some sort of coercion to ensure menial jobs are done. Going back to Voyager, Tom Paris mentions there are penal colonies on Earth, and that he served time in one. Which means it's entirely possible that able bodies people who refuse to work are sent there as well.

United Earth maintains its utopia through fear and coercion. This would probably explain why there are no robots as well. Don't want too many idle citizens starting to wonder if there's another way of running things.
 
they did it for the babes. The babes did it because Kirk lost his shirt.


Me thinks OP is this guy


292
 
StrangerGuy said:
How would a military like Starfleet manage to attract enough people into their ranks when everyone in the society has their material needs and wants satisfied with post scarcity technology. I for one would probably spend a lifetime in a holodeck trying out crazy things and living fantasies.
Click to expand...

It's like people who retire and pick up countless hobbies, or those who can't entirely retire from the workforce because they need to do something.

A human without a job, even one that's simply a hobby, is a human that will go mad in short order. We can't just jack off all day, day in and day out, for years on end... a few weeks at a time? Sure, you might just get blisters... but after long, the itch to simply do things is irresistible.

The craving to be a part of something larger than yourself is always a major driving factor for at least some members of society, and beyond that, simply wanting to be a part of something, a team, is the norm. We want alone time and peace and quiet and all of our needs met, absolutely, but we also crave a tribe, a hunting party, glory.

I think such a society could exist... not in the same exact state as Trek would have it, but a monetary-less society with a voluntary workforce? Consider that all the menial jobs, the janitors, the gardeners, the metal shop tasks and manufacturing jobs... those will be automated. Not everyone will work, not everyone will have a job to actually get if they wanted. But no one will need one. Many will probably do part time gigs just to get out of the house, and many will simply do the equivalent of social work, as addicts would still exist who need counseling.
 
mmntech said:
That question has been debated since William Shatner still had hair.

I suppose people do it for the thrill of exploration. What about menial jobs though? Robots don't seem to be commonplace in the Trek universe. Voyager hints that holograms do some menial jobs but it's never shown or mentioned before that. Which means there's someone out there unclogging toilets, tending bar, or cleaning up puke on the holodeck. When they do have an episode set on Earth, regular humans are shown filling these roles.

You're not going to find very many people who would do these jobs voluntarily. Which means Earth's government probably has to assign jobs. Probably based on aptitude. The best and brightest are the ones who serve in Starfleet. The rest get lumped into roles that they're best suited at, or what ever is in demand at the time.

Now, under a communist system, you are still given a monetary reward for your work. The government pays you, and you spend your money at the government store to buy goods. In the Trek universe, money does not exist. All material needs and wants are provided for free via replicators. Health care seems to be free as well. Since there's no money, and no barter system shown, everything else must be free. So a person does not need to trade their labour for goods or services.

In that case, Earth's government would likely have to employ some sort of coercion to ensure menial jobs are done. Going back to Voyager, Tom Paris mentions there are penal colonies on Earth, and that he served time in one. Which means it's entirely possible that able bodies people who refuse to work are sent there as well.

United Earth maintains its utopia through fear and coercion. This would probably explain why there are no robots as well. Don't want too many idle citizens starting to wonder if there's another way of running things.
Click to expand...

And then there's this, which is how things will almost certainly be in a more realistic world in the somewhat distant future, barring certain events.

Aptitude tests will determine your choices - everything is provided for you in life, so long as you do the work.
United Serfdom.

Hope you're smart and can do something fun!


If we have a thinned population, or, more importantly, have spread out to the Moon, Orbital stations, and perhaps Mars, AND have the opportunity to automate a great deal of things, we can pull it off without a serf-like system. I wouldn't expect it to be all roses and smiles though, as while economic poverty might not exist, poverty of the mind will surely go on. Humans are humans, and if it isn't food or fancy things someone covets, they'll covet other humans and chase highs. Hopefully at that time most drugs are legalized, as therapy and treatment is far more manageable. A penal system for excessive violations of decency (and violent crime) would be required, of course, but the concept of overcrowding jails for petty drug offenses would have to be abandoned.
 
Starfleet is all officers. These are all people who do things for the sake of doing them. Let's face it, you have people get PhDs in physics to make $45k a year doing research. They would just end up being the people in the blue uniforms.
 
there wouldn't be a janitor in the trekverse. toilets/puke/dirty clothing/dirty plates/left overs etc would all be treated the same way - converted to energy in the replicator and that's it.

ok, i don't mean picard would take a shit on his replicator and then order an earl grey tea but the toilet wouldn 't have sewage pipes, the waste would just sit in there and dematerialise straight away - probably the smell too 😱 (they showed the dirty uniform aspect of this in one ep but can't remember it - was replaced witha clean fresh one instantly).

most menial jobs wouldn't exist, if not none.

in DS9 there was a kind of a payment system. or at least a limit on credits. sisko on entering starfleet used his transporter credits to beam home everyday cos he was homesick. maybe that's how it works. ration things to entice you to earn more through work
 
mmntech said:
That question has been debated since William Shatner still had hair.

I suppose people do it for the thrill of exploration. What about menial jobs though? Robots don't seem to be commonplace in the Trek universe. Voyager hints that holograms do some menial jobs but it's never shown or mentioned before that. Which means there's someone out there unclogging toilets, tending bar, or cleaning up puke on the holodeck. When they do have an episode set on Earth, regular humans are shown filling these roles.

You're not going to find very many people who would do these jobs voluntarily. Which means Earth's government probably has to assign jobs. Probably based on aptitude. The best and brightest are the ones who serve in Starfleet. The rest get lumped into roles that they're best suited at, or what ever is in demand at the time.

Now, under a communist system, you are still given a monetary reward for your work. The government pays you, and you spend your money at the government store to buy goods. In the Trek universe, money does not exist. All material needs and wants are provided for free via replicators. Health care seems to be free as well. Since there's no money, and no barter system shown, everything else must be free. So a person does not need to trade their labour for goods or services.

In that case, Earth's government would likely have to employ some sort of coercion to ensure menial jobs are done. Going back to Voyager, Tom Paris mentions there are penal colonies on Earth, and that he served time in one. Which means it's entirely possible that able bodies people who refuse to work are sent there as well.

United Earth maintains its utopia through fear and coercion. This would probably explain why there are no robots as well. Don't want too many idle citizens starting to wonder if there's another way of running things.
Click to expand...

That would also probably explain the replicator in TNG telling a guy he can't have what he wants because it exceeds the allowable diet intake for the day. We already have computer scheduling dictating hours. In the future the Damn computers will be dictating what we can and can't eat. D:
 
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