Some schools across country cut out all subjects but math and reading. . .

[notfred]

At Martin Luther King Jr. Junior High School in Sacramento, about 150 of the school's 885 students spend five of their six class periods on math, reading and gym, leaving only one 55-minute period for all other subjects.

They can eliminate science, history, and art, but at least they kept gym!

 

[MrBond]

Originally posted by: Vich
It doesnt matter. On fox news channel, they went to the streets of NYC and asked "Who is the current VICE-president of the united states?" Some people either had no idea, said al-gore or some other past political figure. They also asked who the secretary of state was and people had no idea.

If they dont know who our current leaders are do you think they fvcking remember james madison?

I'll agree with you that many people are ignorant when it comes to these sorts of things, but I wouldn't trust a TV report where they asked people on the street questions like that. If they're trying to make a point that people don't know current politics, they can just edit out all the people who answered correctly. It's sort of like Jaywalking, he doesn't air the answers people give that are correct because then it wouldn't be funny.

Now, if there was an independant survey done (get Harris or some company that specializes in it to do it) that showed only 25% of adults over 25 knew who the VP was, I'd be worried. I bet most people do though (especially with all the recent coverage of him shooting that guy in the face accidently)

 

[episodic]

Point is, the NCLB isn't a good law. It seems if the powers that be cared about us being #1 in science - they'd mandate that science not be ignored (notice science isn't a class that is tested).

It seems if the people cared about America, then they would also mandate tha history not be ignored.

I've already ran into arguments in my son's education because of NCLB. My son is 12 and is severely dysgraphic. He has a 'big' mind hand disconnect and cannot write any better than most 2nd graders. The problem is he reads voraciously, has an IQ of 110, and has the vocabulary of a high school student (or better than 3/4 of college freshmen). He is bright articulate, and learns easily - but he can't regurgitate on paper on demand. He does use Dragon Naturally Speaking, and is even learning to type (unfortuantly spell checkers can't keep up with him as typing is no panacea for his problem).

The state tests say that he has no modifications and that he MUST pass all the written tests. Where I am located the NCLB testing is actually tough, with most adults would not be able to pass an 8th grade test here. So, he scores well on the Multiple Choice part - but he tanks the writing - making him 'basic' and 'not proficient' every time. I know that this rant is a little personal, but he isn't alone. They expect all kids to pass this test regardless of their ability or handicap.

So kids like him with problems will get railroaded into taking less classes, making school more boring, and increasing their chances of dropping out.

I know all kids don't fit his profile, but there are a heck of a lot that do.


And to all of you claiming this was an Anti-bush thread - nowhere did I mention Bush - but if you want to take it that way, then you must know the truth

 

[ViRGE]

To answer the OP's question, no, the cutback on subjects is not something caused by NCLB. These kind of cutbacks have been happening for years, at least until the 80's around here - even whole movies, Mr. Holland's Opus, have been made that end on the subject of these cutbacks. No doubt NCLB has furthered the process, but it's largely an excuse for something the schools have been doing for much longer, they likely would have cut back even without NCLB.

 

[Neurorelay]

Education is a business in this country. Going for efficiency and reproducible statisitcs via testing. The arts and social studies are too "grey" in terms of assessment.

 

[Cooler]

The need to get rid of these new tests from no child left behind act. In Japan if screw up on HS entrance exam that?s the end of your schooling. I am not saying that?s how America should be but the current teaching to pass only a standardize test hurts the students as they will not learn as much. If kids fail let them fail its up to them and the parents to get help.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: GeekDrew

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Let me preface this response with: I am a teacher (in NYS)

This just goes to show that in some places, the people running the school are morons. The teachers in these schools (and their unions) are complacent to accept these changes.

In an effort to improve our own school's reading and writing scores, our math department has ntegrated writing assignments into our math curriculum. Most are really simple: describe the steps you used to solve a particular problem.. ("First, I wrote the equation... then I added 3 to both sides... " Are the fvcktards running these other schools too stupid to integrate reading and writing into other areas of the curriculum?! Especially something like social studies/history... it's 90% reading and writing. Idiots!

Or, on the other hand, is this just one more example of a newspaper reporter stretching things a bit to write a sensationalistic article?

I think that's a double edged sword. Yes, it does increase the amount of reading and writing that the student does, in hope of raising their knowledge about it, and eventually, their test scores. However, I can see some types of students becoming very frustrated by that.

I was a fairly "good student" in high school, but if I had been required to write out a lot of stuff in math class, then I more than likely would have let my grades suffer an immense amount, just because I wouldn't have done the assignments. I could have taken the tests without a problem, but the net result would have been that I'm now a "bad student", just because I refuse to put up with the BS that schools such as yours are now requiring.

That said, I don't agree with the schools that are allegedly dropping some subjects, in order to focus more on certain other subjects.

Ohh, you wouldn't have to worry too much in my class... I give the students credit for such assignments. I also give some of the students A LOT of assistance on these assignments. They're really a way of teaching them to organize their thoughts and think about how they do things in a particular order. Essentially, though, I don't feel that it should have a strong (if any) impact on their grade in math... Most of those types of assignments are done *during* class. Rather than give them a specific grade on it, I use those assignments as sample assignments which are put into their graduation portfolio (sort of a souvenir that the students build during their four years in school.) That way, they feel they're getting some sort of credit for completing the assignment. However, it really has no effect on the grade they receive for math, except that perhaps, for some of them, it helps them learn the process a little better of solving some particular problems.

 

[episodic]

I love how even here people skip over examples like my son and don't 'consider' those with problems that make this test an unfair assessment.

 

[EyeMWing]

Originally posted by: Cooler
The need to get rid of these new tests from no child left behind act. In Japan if screw up on HS entrance exam that?s the end of your schooling. I am not saying that?s how America should be but the current teaching to pass only a standardize test hurts the students as they will not learn as much. If kids fail let them fail its up to them and the parents to get help.

There's red ink all over your post. You just failed.

 

[FoBoT]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Majority of the people think he sucks

based on what? polls?

we'll see what happens in Nov. i think the majority still support conservative stands on most of the issues. i don't believe the Dems will regain many seats in Congress

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: episodic
I love how even here people skip over examples like my son and don't 'consider' those with problems that make this test an unfair assessment.

Testing most certainly is "fair" if everyone takes the same test and has to achieve the same standards of results. Sure there are some very bright students who have difficulty with this or that, but it doesn't mean testing is somehow "unfair". It is a representation of how much they know and how well they can relay that knowledge. How do you suggest we change testing? I wouldn't be opposed to allowing students with physical handicaps to be able to verbally take the test, but it should be the same test judged against the same standards. You might try the verbal angle if you have not already tried it with your district. You'll probably get the excuse that they don't have the resources or that the state won't allow it, but you'll have to win them first to be able to take on the state for modifications.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: episodic
I love how even here people skip over examples like my son and don't 'consider' those with problems that make this test an unfair assessment.

You need more flames in your post to get people to read it.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Mik3y
Well, many subjects, such as history, are pointless unless you take them in college. All my history professors tell my classes that the history classes that we took in k-12 are warped and turned into BS. For example, Christopher Columbus. Aside from his 3 boats, he was a killer and very oppressive. Also, he wasnt the first person to set foot on America. He's the father of slavery and racism.

substantiation?

He can`t...he`s one of those 9/11 Consipracy theorie peeps......
all talk no facts....lol

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: episodic
I love how even here people skip over examples like my son and don't 'consider' those with problems that make this test an unfair assessment.

Testing most certainly is "fair" if everyone takes the same test and has to achieve the same standards of results. Sure there are some very bright students who have difficulty with this or that, but it doesn't mean testing is somehow "unfair". It is a representation of how much they know and how well they can relay that knowledge. How do you suggest we change testing? I wouldn't be opposed to allowing students with physical handicaps to be able to verbally take the test, but it should be the same test judged against the same standards. You might try the verbal angle if you have not already tried it with your district. You'll probably get the excuse that they don't have the resources or that the state won't allow it, but you'll have to win them first to be able to take on the state for modifications.

Hello? How is it fair that a person with a diagnosed learning disability be held to the same standards totally discounting his disability? Dysgraphia means that there is nothing cognitively wrong with my son other than fine motor skills are just not there for writing. He knows the material, he can tell you the material, he can write (only he and I can seem to read it) - but it looks like a 2nd grader who is having a terrible go at writing. My son is nearing 13. It is not curable, practice won't help, the only hope for him is assistive tech which will allow him to make an endrun around the problem. He wants to be a carpenter anyhow, so I don't see long nights and days of writing ahead of him in his life.

SOOOO. . .since he is below basic on the state test due to his writing, he has to not particiapte in extra curricular activities? It does not matter if he has 1 or 15 reading classes, he is not going to be able to adequately perform on the written section of these tests. Heck, he even tanks the math on the written part (not because he sucks at math).


So, when he goes to take the state test, of course what do they do? They make him write. He writes, but none of the assessors can seem to read a dysgraphic's handwriting, and he always flunks it. Every year, it gets tougher for him. How would you feel if you got called 'basic or below basic' every year, and you knew the material, just could not get it across?
I've tried to get some help for him, but the test itself is mandated from the state to NOT have the type of modifications my son needs. I mean how would they let him use Dragon Naturally speaking on the test? Verbal testing is also disallowed - period. He would have to have a profound diagnosis like deafness or blindess for further accomodations.

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: episodic

Originally posted by: ShadesOfGrey

Originally posted by: episodic
I love how even here people skip over examples like my son and don't 'consider' those with problems that make this test an unfair assessment.

Testing most certainly is "fair" if everyone takes the same test and has to achieve the same standards of results. Sure there are some very bright students who have difficulty with this or that, but it doesn't mean testing is somehow "unfair". It is a representation of how much they know and how well they can relay that knowledge. How do you suggest we change testing? I wouldn't be opposed to allowing students with physical handicaps to be able to verbally take the test, but it should be the same test judged against the same standards. You might try the verbal angle if you have not already tried it with your district. You'll probably get the excuse that they don't have the resources or that the state won't allow it, but you'll have to win them first to be able to take on the state for modifications.

Hello? How is it fair that a person with a diagnosed learning disability be held to the same standards totally discounting his disability? Dysgraphia means that there is nothing cognitively wrong with my son other than fine motor skills are just not there for writing. He knows the material, he can tell you the material, he can write (only he and I can seem to read it) - but it looks like a 2nd grader who is having a terrible go at writing. My son is nearing 13. It is not curable, practice won't help, the only hope for him is assistive tech which will allow him to make an endrun around the problem. He wants to be a carpenter anyhow, so I don't see long nights and days of writing ahead of him in his life.

SOOOO. . .since he is below basic on the state test due to his writing, he has to not particiapte in extra curricular activities? It does not matter if he has 1 or 15 reading classes, he is not going to be able to adequately perform on the written section of these tests. Heck, he even tanks the math on the written part (not because he sucks at math).


So, when he goes to take the state test, of course what do they do? They make him write. He writes, but none of the assessors can seem to read a dysgraphic's handwriting, and he always flunks it. Every year, it gets tougher for him. How would you feel if you got called 'basic or below basic' every year, and you knew the material, just could not get it across?
I've tried to get some help for him, but the test itself is mandated from the state to NOT have the type of modifications my son needs. I mean how would they let him use Dragon Naturally speaking on the test? Verbal testing is also disallowed - period. He would have to have a profound diagnosis like deafness or blindess for further accomodations.

Hello? Your son doesn't have a learning disability from what you have stated here(even though they classify it as a "learning" disability). He can do everything fine, but for whatever reason he can not communicate his knowledge through writing. I acknowledged this and believe that people in these sorts of situations should be allowed to take the test by giving verbal answers. That way, his knowledge can be tested and judged against the standards set forth. His inability to perform written communication does not make testing unfair, it only means there needs to be accommodations made for a different form of communication. In this case verbal would work. I am not sure why accommodations would be denied to those who have what I would classify as physical disabilities(not learning disabilities). Sounds to me like the state regulators, your school district, and other educators need some education about Dysgraphia. I would be hopping mad if I was in your situation too, but take it out on the proper people, not the testing itself.

The problem with trying to claim the testing is "unfair" is that as long as everyone takes the same testing and are judged against the same standards there is nothing "unfair" about it. Expecting that x amount of teaching should produce y amount of knowledge is not unfair, but without testing to see if that knowledge is present there is no way to make sure standards are being met.

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
It doesn't really matter because modern politicians don't seem to have heard of the Constitution either.

Edited for truth.

What is the point of making obviously wrong statements like this? Are we competing to see how much we can exaggerate and be admired by P&N sychophants?

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: episodic
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/education/26child.html

Great, now we will have a generation that have not even heard of the constitution.

There are many other things to know besides the constitution. The constitution is a small part of history and one aspect of American politics. It is a very strange business that it was the first thing you thought of that would be missing if education were to be reduced to reading and writing.

 

[episodic]

Originally posted by: CSMR

Originally posted by: episodic
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/26/education/26child.html

Great, now we will have a generation that have not even heard of the constitution.

There are many other things to know besides the constitution. The constitution is a small part of history and one aspect of American politics. It is a very strange business that it was the first thing you thought of that would be missing if education were to be reduced to reading and writing.

Just an observation. I mentioned lack of science and other stuff as well. The article does a good job at enumerating it. I origingally posted in offtopic, I would have given a better write up had I posted in this forum.

 

[episodic]

Hello? Your son doesn't have a learning disability from what you have stated here(even though they classify it as a "learning" disability). He can do everything fine, but for whatever reason he can not communicate his knowledge through writing. I acknowledged this and believe that people in these sorts of situations should be allowed to take the test by giving verbal answers. That way, his knowledge can be tested and judged against the standards set forth. His inability to perform written communication does not make testing unfair, it only means there needs to be accommodations made for a different form of communication. In this case verbal would work. I am not sure why accommodations would be denied to those who have what I would classify as physical disabilities(not learning disabilities). Sounds to me like the state regulators, your school district, and other educators need some education about Dysgraphia. I would be hopping mad if I was in your situation too, but take it out on the proper people, not the testing itself.

I wasn't meaning to get snippy - just tired and I probably read ya wrong.

:beer:

 

[ShadesOfGrey]

Originally posted by: episodic

Hello? Your son doesn't have a learning disability from what you have stated here(even though they classify it as a "learning" disability). He can do everything fine, but for whatever reason he can not communicate his knowledge through writing. I acknowledged this and believe that people in these sorts of situations should be allowed to take the test by giving verbal answers. That way, his knowledge can be tested and judged against the standards set forth. His inability to perform written communication does not make testing unfair, it only means there needs to be accommodations made for a different form of communication. In this case verbal would work. I am not sure why accommodations would be denied to those who have what I would classify as physical disabilities(not learning disabilities). Sounds to me like the state regulators, your school district, and other educators need some education about Dysgraphia. I would be hopping mad if I was in your situation too, but take it out on the proper people, not the testing itself.

I wasn't meaning to get snippy - just tired and I probably read ya wrong.

:beer:

:beer:

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
In an effort to improve our own school's reading and writing scores, our math department has ntegrated writing assignments into our math curriculum. Most are really simple: describe the steps you used to solve a particular problem.. ("First, I wrote the equation... then I added 3 to both sides... " Are the fvcktards running these other schools too stupid to integrate reading and writing into other areas of the curriculum?! Especially something like social studies/history... it's 90% reading and writing. Idiots!

That is a terrible waste of student's time, and you as a teacher should know it.
If a student can solve a problem with just equations, he should just do it, and not have to verbally write out every step for you like you are retarded.
Not only are you wasting their time while students in other countries are solving more math problems, but you are turning some of them away from math by making it more tedious. Part of the beauty of math is that it's a universal language that doesn't require verbal explanations, and you are turning math into just another writing subject.

 

[CSMR]

Originally posted by: episodic
Just an observation. I mentioned lack of science and other stuff as well. The article does a good job at enumerating it. I origingally posted in offtopic, I would have given a better write up had I posted in this forum.

OK!

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: DrPizza

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
It doesn't really matter because the current administration doesn't seem to have heard of the Constitution either.

Well put.

Oh yeah, definately well put.

Just because the administration might not be doing something right, we should all copy them. Definately.

 

[spike spiegal]

My GF teaches inner city gradeschool, and complains constantly that she spends more time prepping kids for proficiency tests than teaching subjects other than math/reading.

That's the problem - they cram kids to beat tests, but no use it in an applied fashion which is why colleges are screaming.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Mik3y
Well, many subjects, such as history, are pointless unless you take them in college. All my history professors tell my classes that the history classes that we took in k-12 are warped and turned into BS. For example, Christopher Columbus. Aside from his 3 boats, he was a killer and very oppressive. Also, he wasnt the first person to set foot on America. He's the father of slavery and racism.

substantiation?

Are you serious??? Dude, read a freaking book.

From Columbus' log book upon meeting the Arawak tribes:

They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane...They would make fine servants...With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want.

also:

As soon as I arrived in the Indies, on the first Island which I found, I took some of the native by force in order that they might learn and might give me information of whatever there is in these parts.

Columbus only agreed to take the voyage because he was promised, among other things, 10 percent of all profits from gold and spices returned. One of the ways he kept morale up was to offer a bounty of 10,000 maravedis (money of the time) for the first person to spot land. Rodrigo (a sailor and lookout) spotted land, but Columbus told him he had already spotted it the night before so he wouldn't have to pay the bounty. When the Santa Maria ran aground there he used the materials of it to create Fort Navidad, the first European military outpost in the New World. He garrisoned it with 39 of his men with orders to find the gold and await his return. Columbus then took a number of Indian slaves for the return voyage and killed two Indians when they weren't offering enough in trade.

He would later report to the King and Queen;

with but a little help I will bring you as much gold as you need...and as many slaves as they ask.

His second expedition, of 17 ships and a small army, returned to the islands of the Carribean. He went from island to island, taking slaves, looting and killing. He found his garrison at Fort Navidad had been killed in a battle after taking more than half the native females and children for sex and labor slaves when no gold was found. Out of 1500 slaves he captured he picked the 500 best examples to take back to Spain with him. 200 died on the voyage home. The rest were left on whatever island they last visited. The slaves were all sold and columbus decreed:

Let us in the name of the Holy Trinity go on sending all the slaves that can be sold.

When Columbus again returned it was in frantic need to find gold to pay for his continued expeditions (as too many slaves died in transit to make it profitable, though he kept trying). He therefor ordered that all natives over age 14 had to deliver a gold quota to him every three months. In exchange they were given copper tokens to wear. Any found after a time without copper tokens had their hands hacked off and were left to bleed to death. When the Indians fled this carnage Columbus had them tracked with dogs and torn apart. When the Arawaks attempted to revolt with force Columbus and his men became truly barbaric in their executions. In response mass suicides of all natives began. Mothers considered it a duty to drown their newborns in the river, rather than have them grow into slavery. In two years one half of the population of 250,000 Indians on Haiti were dead. By 1650 not a single Arawak remained alive.


This information take from:

A Peoples History of the United States - Howard Zinn
Lies My Teacher Told Me - James Loewen
and pretty much every other college level history text which mentions Columbus