Some restaurants face pressure to trim menus and staffs under California's wage hike

[ivwshane]

I'm going to start writing "$15 Minimum Wage" on the tip line.

Good for the BOH guys, but f those FOH guys who think they're going to get $15/hr + 18%.

Do you know why people tipped in the first place? Because servers are paid before minimum wage and were expected to supplement their income with tips. But guess what? If servers are paid minimum wage, there will be no reason to tip!

 

[fskimospy]

Min wage people are paying food, rent, utilities, health care (but probably not HI), entertainment and likely school tuition. Show me the basket that results in only 2% inflation and has applicability to those folks.

You slipped in the govt bastardized inflation number that suits the govt's purposes and then claimed it was actual inflation as these people would experience.

So you ARE an inflation truther! Bwahahahahahaha.

Go ahead, tell me what the 'real' inflation number is and how you came about it. This should be entertaining.

Anybody paying for food, utilities, health care, entertainment and tuition knows 2% is absolute bullshit.

Fern

Ahh, so now you're saying '2% is absolute bullshit so long as you only look at these very specific and entirely arbitrary sectors of the economy'. Keeee-rist you people are scary sometimes.

You might go with the 'Fern bullshit index' to calculate inflation but I think I'm going to stick with the 'transparently calculated, international standards aligned index whose results closely track other independent measures'. Your mileage may vary though.

Seriously, if you actually think the government has been working to lower inflation or somehow conspiring to fudge the numbers you REALLY need to get out of the right wing media bubble because that thinking is frankly insane. The government has been expressly attempting to INCREASE inflation in recent years, with little success. Not only is it obviously dumb from the simple idea that you can go check BLS's math whenever you want, it's illogical as it would be contrary to their goals.

 

[Ns1]

I'm really curious how this will impact the people who currently make near $15 - if I'm in a lead/supervisor position right now making $15 an hour, you're damn right I'm going to be asking for a raise as well. So it's not just the minimum wage people whose wages needs to go up, EVERYONES wages will need to go up.

 

[ivwshane]

I'm really curious how this will impact the people who currently make near $15 - if I'm in a lead/supervisor position right now making $15 an hour, you're damn right I'm going to be asking for a raise as well. So it's not just the minimum wage people whose wages needs to go up, EVERYONES wages will need to go up.

If you are lucky your wage might go up but then again it might not. But most undoubtedly, not everyone's wages will need to go up.

 

[Fenixgoon]

oh my god, prices increase when the cost of labor/services increases. stop the goddamn presses!

the real question is: does the increase cost of services/goods raise significantly to the point where raising the minimum wage was not effective? have you increased the purchasing power of minimum wage workers to where they can reasonably afford certain basic goods/services compared to before the wage increase? if so, then job well done.

and to answer those who cry "but you're making me effectively support other people!!" the answer to that is "yes, we all do that to each other to one degree or another"

god forbid people not be wage slaves.

 

[Newbian]

Do you know why people tipped in the first place? Because servers are paid before minimum wage and were expected to supplement their income with tips. But guess what? If servers are paid minimum wage, there will be no reason to tip!

Except you are guaranteed to at least make minimal wage from the employer if tips don't cover enough.


The problem is the minimal tip limit for this $2.13 a hour is a joke as if you make more then $30 per month from tips this can be applied.


I could see $300 if it's part time but $30 is insanely low.

 

[ivwshane]

Except you are guaranteed to at least make minimal wage from the employer if tips don't cover enough.


The problem is the minimal tip limit for this $2.13 a hour is a joke as if you make more then $30 per month from tips this can be applied.


I could see $300 if it's part time but $30 is insanely low.

That's true, although I didn't see any reason why that setup would change.

 

[PlanetJosh]

Well in 6-7 years when it's phased in I may apply at Burger King for that 30k/year wage. That's what starting graphics designers make anyway if even that. So why should I bother with the hassle of photoshop and possible web programming?

 

[werepossum]

Well in 6-7 years when it's phased in I may apply at Burger King for that 30k/year wage. That's what starting graphics designers make anyway if even that. So why should I bother with the hassle of photoshop and possible web programming?

Because graphic design is more fun and more challenging, and because while that is damned close to what experienced burger wranglers earn, it is not close to what experienced graphics designers earn.

There are valid reasons to not support a big minimum wage hike, but fear of a run on Burger King jobs is probably not one of them.

 

[Ns1]

JFC man, $15/hr is probably what most accountants currently start at.

 

[-slash-]

Well in 6-7 years when it's phased in I may apply at Burger King for that 30k/year wage. That's what starting graphics designers make anyway if even that. So why should I bother with the hassle of photoshop and possible web programming?

Exactly. Why bother? No different than all the food stamp and welfare recipients that wont better themselves because they dont want to work hard.

If you cant dig yourself out of a minimum wage job currently and support yourself, you are the problem, not the wage. Self accountability is dying in this country at an alarming rate. Go to college, rack up tuition debt, get a degree in something obscure, dont find a job, work as a burger flipper, demand more money because you deserve it for making poor life choices, profit! Replace college with jail, drugs, laziness and you make up the majority of the minimum wage workforce demanding a wage hike. Lets keep rewarding mediocrity.

Idiocracy is slowly becoming a sad reality...

 

[MongGrel]

NM, just another thread I won't bother to coment on after reading a few ignorant things.

I had almost wrote a wall I deleted.

 

[stlc8tr]

That's true that they tended to be for smaller hikes, but even in this case the hike is slow (phased in over 6 years) and assuming 2% annual inflation will actually only be going up to a bit over $13 in today's dollars.

I would agree that we have less of an idea as to what would happen in this situation, but to say we have no idea is wrong. In addition, that same logic would hold for claims that this would cost jobs.

Given today's CA minimal wage is $10, that's still an increase of 33%, a much larger increase than in those studies.

I still think an increase in the EIC is the better way to raise folks out of poverty.

 

[DCal430]

Except you are guaranteed to at least make minimal wage from the employer if tips don't cover enough.


The problem is the minimal tip limit for this $2.13 a hour is a joke as if you make more then $30 per month from tips this can be applied.


I could see $300 if it's part time but $30 is insanely low.

This is about California, we don't have a separate tip wage.

 

[DCal430]

I'm really curious how this will impact the people who currently make near $15 - if I'm in a lead/supervisor position right now making $15 an hour, you're damn right I'm going to be asking for a raise as well. So it's not just the minimum wage people whose wages needs to go up, EVERYONES wages will need to go up.

Since it is happening over 6 years, one would expect those people to have gotten raises by then.

 

[Newbian]

This is about California, we don't have a separate tip wage.

What I quoted it applied.

 

[DCal430]

I thought Americans were exceptional, were winners?
If Denmark can pay $20 per hour minimum, we can certainly pay $15 per hour.
If you can't pay people a decent minimum wage, you don't have a viable business.

No, With today's exchange rate it is closer to 16 an hour now.

Also average wages in the U.S is close to 45K compared to 30K in Denmark. Median income is also much higher in the U.S than Denmark.

 

[sandorski]

The Restaurant owner is making a simple mistake. He has taken Pre-MinWage circumstances and applying them to Post-MinWageHike circumstances.

What people were willing to Pay for your food wasn't based on the Amount it Cost alone, there is no fixed price for Item X. It was based upon His Price in comparison to his Competitors Price. All his competitors will also have to raise their prices accordingly, once again restoring the Norm.

As has been mentioned, there will also be new customers able to buy the food he is selling. Greater the pool of potential customers, the greater Demand there will be for his food.

That said, there can be somewhat of a consumer sticker shock at first. That is, that previous customers will see the new Prices and think twice about purchasing as much as they used to. However, in time they will accept it.

A similar sort of phenomena happened here in Canada when we introduced our National Sales tax(GST- Goods and Services Tax). For 6 months to a year there was a decline in Consumer activity, but after that time people adjusted and consumption returned to normal levels. The same sort of phenomena will occur when any Price goes up. Similarly, over the last 15ish years we have seen how consumption rises/falls based upon the wild fluctuations of the price of Oil. People always adjust though, Demand for prepared food and other consumables always recovers.

 

[Ns1]

That said, there can be somewhat of a consumer sticker shock at first. That is, that previous customers will see the new Prices and think twice about purchasing as much as they used to. However, in time they will accept it.

if by "Accept" you mean "order less of it because I can no longer afford it as often" then you would be correct!

 

[sandorski]

if by "Accept" you mean "order less of it because I can no longer afford it as often" then you would be correct!

Maybe, maybe not. Is a fractional increase really that much of a make or break proposition? Are you sure that you could afford it beforehand if it was that close to being unaffordable?

 

[Ns1]

Maybe, maybe not. Is a fractional increase really that much of a make or break proposition? Are you sure that you could afford it beforehand if it was that close to being unaffordable?

What fraction are you thinking here? A 50% increase in minimum wage over 5 years tells me the fractional increase in costs is going to be no less than 20%

And yes, a 20% increase in my going out to eat costs would result in me going out to eat much less. I would probably still eat high end and low end, but everything in the middle would be wiped out.

 

[ivwshane]

if by "Accept" you mean "order less of it because I can no longer afford it as often" then you would be correct!

If you can't afford it as often then you probably shouldn't be buying it in the first place. But who am I to tell you how you should spend your money.

 

[bozack]

What you're going to see is a net negative impact on the folks which are supposed to be benefited by the increase on wages...lower cost services/goods will increase in cost, minimum wage jobs will decline, and more employers who hire minimum wage employees will find new ways to eliminate workers and or make better use of smaller staff....instead of government subsidizing a piece of their livelihood you will see a larger portion of folks just out of work and on 100% assistance.

 

[sandorski]

What fraction are you thinking here? A 50% increase in minimum wage over 5 years tells me the fractional increase in costs is going to be no less than 20%

And yes, a 20% increase in my going out to eat costs would result in me going out to eat much less. I would probably still eat high end and low end, but everything in the middle would be wiped out.

$10 meal becomes $12. I see what you mean......

 

[marincounty]

Min wage people are paying food, rent, utilities, health care (but probably not HI), entertainment and likely school tuition. Show me the basket that results in only 2% inflation and has applicability to those folks.

You slipped in the govt bastardized inflation number that suits the govt's purposes and then claimed it was actual inflation as these people would experience.

Anybody paying for food, utilities, health care, entertainment and tuition knows 2% is absolute bullshit.

Fern

I'm going to have to agree with Fern. It's in the govt's interest to keep the cpi low, less payouts for retirements and social security.
The calculation and data are secret.
They use a crazy substitution argument, if steak goes way up in price people will substitute ground beef. See, you are still eating- thus no inflation.
I believe that they removed rent and mortgage payments from their calculation, also.
It is a scam.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/periann...lation-dont-bother-with-the-cpi/#7fb2182e118b