some prisoner abuse photos are fakes

[ElFenix]

Secretary of Defense Don Rumsfeld jolted members of Congress last week when he warned that more photographs of Iraqi prisoners being abused were likely to be publicly available soon. But a cautionary tale from Britain shows that some skepticism is occasionally called for. British Defense Secretary Geoff Hoon told Parliament yesterday that photos published by the Daily Mirror showing British troops urinating on an Iraqi prisoner were likely fakes. The piece of evidence that clinched that conclusion was that an Army truck seen in the photos was of a type that had never been sent to Iraq.

--John Fund

 

[DealMonkey]

When is "some skepticism" NOT "occasionally called for?"

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
When is "some skepticism" NOT "occasionally called for?"

When it stems the tide of bad press for Rumsfeld and Bush, of course. I saw a lot of Democratic Senators calling for Rumsfeld to resign and heard NONE of them profess any skepticism towards the authentcity of the photos. YOU tell ME when it isn't called for.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

There was discussion of this on NPR last night. Just to be clear, the photos in question apparently only involve British soldiers, and are not taken inside the prison (given that a truck is the contested issue in terms of where and when they were taken).

I think there is an important point here, though - we all know that Photoshop allows amazing image manipulation, and it is too early to jump to conclusions about these pics. That said, since they were apparently provided to investigators by a GI working in the prison, I am tentatively inclined to believe they are genuine. My guess is that once Sivits is tried, and thus surrenders his right to remain silent (because he is no longer subject to prosecution for his statements), we will get more clarification on what exactly took place.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
There was discussion of this on NPR last night. Just to be clear, the photos in question apparently only involve British soldiers, and are not taken inside the prison (given that a truck is the contested issue in terms of where and when they were taken).

I think there is an important point here, though - we all know that Photoshop allows amazing image manipulation, and it is too early to jump to conclusions about these pics. That said, since they were apparently provided to investigators by a GI working in the prison, I am tentatively inclined to believe they are genuine. My guess is that once Sivits is tried, and thus surrenders his right to remain silent (because he is no longer subject to prosecution for his statements), we will get more clarification on what exactly took place.

But 1,000 pictures? Did he slide a half dozen suitcases under their door?

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

But 1,000 pictures? Did he slide a half dozen suitcases under their door?

They were on a CD-ROM, and as I recall he did in fact slide them under the investigators' door. How have you managed to follow this story even casually without knowing they are digital photos? Did you think the GIs took them to the Baghdad Wal-Mart to be developed?

 

[dahunan]

The rape and sexual violence photos are fakes... I posted two topics on this and neither of them received a single reply.. which seemed odd.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

But 1,000 pictures? Did he slide a half dozen suitcases under their door?

They were on a CD-ROM, and as I recall he did in fact slide them under the investigators' door.

Ah, so they're all in digital format...great, then obviously that rules out any possibility that they may be fake.

How have you managed to follow this story even casually without knowing they are digital photos? Did you think the GIs took them to the Baghdad Wal-Mart to be developed?

No, actually, I thought all GIs had computers with CD-RWs because GIs need to be able to burn those MP3s they're busy downloading.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Ah, so they're all in digital format...great, then obviously that rules out any possibility that they may be fake.

Ahem - the post I made above (which you quoted previously, BTW) already pointed out the possibility the images might have been manipulated.

No, actually, I thought all GIs had computers with CD-RWs because GIs need to be able to burn those MP3s they're busy downloading.

OK, I don't even understand this one. Are you making fun of GIs, or the idea that they might have decent computers, or what?

In general, the Army is fairly loath to buy things like PCs, but the USA PATRIOT act allows for expedited contracting for nearly all small purchases, and I know when I was deployed by the AF for OEF, we got sweet brand-new Dell PCs just by asking for them. It's not as though CD burners are an extravagance nowadays.

By all accounts, SPC Joe Darby turned over the pics after being bothered by the fact that a number of other MPs at the prison were e-mailing them around, and passing around CDs of them. As I said, the jury is still out on their authenticity, but this seems to imply they are what they purport to be.

 

[Zebo]

Sounds like a good black ops red herring plan. Make a few erronous photos and the sheep will conclude they must all be fake and tesimony from the GI's is to be discounted as well.

 

[n0cmonkey]

I'm sure most of them are fakes. They're blurry enough to be a bad photochop.

 

[etech]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Sounds like a good black ops red herring plan. Make a few erronous photos and the sheep will conclude they must all be fake and tesimony from the GI's is to be discounted as well.

Wow, Zebo, I've seen stretching before but doesn't it hurt your head to try and stretch that far?

'I guess all Arabs are just innocent and misunderstood and it's only the evil Americans that ever do anything wrong. Those Arabs didn't behead anyone, it's a plot to get support for the administration. Saddam was just a misunderstood pussycat. He never had anyone dipped into acid, killed, raped or tortured, those are just lies so we can steal their oil. Saddam never had a weapons program, he never used poison gas on anyone, it's all just more propaganda.'

Take your damn tin-foil hat off boy.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Originally posted by: Don_Vito
In general, the Army is fairly loath to buy things like PCs, but the USA PATRIOT act allows for expedited contracting for nearly all small purchases, and I know when I was deployed by the AF for OEF, we got sweet brand-new Dell PCs just by asking for them. It's not as though CD burners are an extravagance nowadays.

Of course. It's also a similarly plausible scenario that they use non-digital cameras for military use and might have a place on base or through mail to get them developed. *shrug* No more or less a stupid thought than a GI starting up Nero 6 on the plains of Iraq.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor

Of course. It's also a similarly plausible scenario that they use non-digital cameras for military use and might have a place on base or through mail to get them developed. *shrug* No more or less a stupid thought than a GI starting up Nero 6 on the plains of Iraq.

You're right - it was probably Easy CD Creator.

Your theory could only make sense if the pics were taken as a part of official duties, which would imply a much larger conspiracy not supported by the evidence. Either that, or you think it's be likely that GIs would photograph themselves committing war crimes for fun, then send the pics away to a lab for development - that make sense to you? Not to me.

As it happens, Maj Gen Taguba testified today that the pics were taken with privately-owned digital cameras. All the reporting on the story indicates the pics were freely e-mailed around the prison, as you would know if you were reading a source other than AT for news. The newest set of photos and videos are apparently contained on 3 CD-ROMs that are presently in the hands of DoD - they will apparently be showing them to the Joint Armed Services Committee shortly.

I take it you don't have experience on a military deployment. People can and do bring personal digicams and even laptops (and portable DVD players, and GBAs) on deployments. I will definitely bring my iPod on my next deployment. When I deployed for OEF, it was to a forward location in a tent city in Sep 01, and people still brought these things. Hell, we had brand new PCs (with DVD/CD-RWs) and satellite-based broadband all the way back then, and the Comm Squadron guys brought PS2s and Sega Dreamcasts for the Comm tent (lots of pallet space for those dudes).

The MPs at Abu Ghraib are in a steady-state hardened facility, not a forward location. It is in no way surprising that they would have digicams and CD burners.

 

[Zephyr106]

All those "prison abuse photos" are fakes. No American soldier would ever think of performing the lewd homosexual acts depicted in the photos. Remember where these photos first came from..... CBS. Yep the bastion of liberal anti-Americanism.

Zephyr

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: etech

Originally posted by: Zebo
Sounds like a good black ops red herring plan. Make a few erronous photos and the sheep will conclude they must all be fake and tesimony from the GI's is to be discounted as well.

Wow, Zebo, I've seen stretching before but doesn't it hurt your head to try and stretch that far?

'I guess all Arabs are just innocent and misunderstood and it's only the evil Americans that ever do anything wrong. Those Arabs didn't behead anyone, it's a plot to get support for the administration. Saddam was just a misunderstood pussycat. He never had anyone dipped into acid, killed, raped or tortured, those are just lies so we can steal their oil. Saddam never had a weapons program, he never used poison gas on anyone, it's all just more propaganda.'

Take your damn tin-foil hat off boy.

Ouch! Look I'm just saying what I'd advise Rove to do to minize this impact. Perception is important and if we could sway people to think some or all of this phto are not genuine it would help.

As for the rest I don't believe that.