some people are just stupid or REALLY bad with money

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: paulxcook

Originally posted by: Gibson486
we get it. Live beyond means and have a bunch of ATOT peopel chastise the person. It's getting old.

Your reaction is just part of the cycle too, bud.

1. idiot does something
2. much of ATOT responds judgementally
3. smaller portion of ATOT judges larger for being judgemental

You're being pretty judgemental of his judgementalism.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Engineer
Wow...just wow. Not only are people stupid, it just goes to show how stupid the lending instituations were in giving out loans. No wonder EVERYONE (including the banks) are going down....and the rest of us that are responsible enough to pay our debts and not get over our heads, take it up the ass by giving a taxpayer bailout.

I blame the lenders on this one. Although I'm a big believer in personal responsibility. I find it almost laughable they would allow a $500,000 mortgage with no documentation and nothing more than a signature on a dotted line. In this case, the lender should eat the loss.

i don't see how you people can blame the lenders?
yes, they were greedy and were only looking to close the deal. but they didn't drag her out of her rental apartment and ask her if she wanted a $500k house.
she sought them out and probably said, i want to live in a nice neighborhood in a big house large enough for my family, and 2 of my daughter's families.

who in their right minds at that income level would even think about purchasing a house that expensive?

We're blaming both, not just the lenders. You even called greed into this one. It's the lenders responsibility, IMO, to make sure that people have the ability to repay a loan and I don't mean just barely either. Responsibility should be no BOTH sides and in this case, neither side showed responsibility....

Agreed, but ask yourself which party is in the better position and has more experience in helping to avoid the creation of a mortgage that in all likelihood would be impossible for the debtor to repay? A BANK and a REAL ESTATE BROKER who toil day in and day out with issuing mortgages, overseeing real estate sales, and making determinations as to whether a particular buyer has the financial means and stability for the purchase, OR, an immigrant working in a factory making $25,000 a year.

Yes, both are to blame, but there is a term called "predatory lending" and this one fits the bill.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo


no, it was her own stupidity that got her.
you shouldn't purchase a home with the assumption of collecting rent as guaranteed income. unless you have a good amount of savings, your are screwed if your tenant doesn't pay or moves out.

i'll agree that the agent was a crook and the lending institution was also negligent and got what they deserved.

I agree she was probably over her head, but her investing strategy was still sound. What got her was the lie that she would be able to refinance. "Don't worry about the 'adjustable' part, you can just refi in a couple years". She was making the payments just fine until the rates jumped, and she couldn't refi due to the housing slump. Her decision was bases on a professional's advice.

I own rental properties, have for going on 15 years. I could never make the mortgages on my salary. Was that a stupid decision too? I'm laughing all the way to the bank. I have complete strangers paying my kids future college tuition.

I guess I am just as big of a moran. 😉

The question is would you buy a place and then rent out individual rooms in that house (while you were living there) to make the mortgage payment? Completely different than you owning separate rental properties that what the lady in the OP did. If one of her daughters moved out, then what? Rent the bedroom to a stranger? Sure thing....lol.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: NL5
Let's play a little game.

Suppose Johnny goes to the doctor. Doctor says, wow Johnny, looks like you have testicular cancer. I think you should have your balls cut off. (I don't know the technical term - lol). So, Johnny goes and schedules surgery, and they preform it perfectly. Now, they do a post op biopsy, and it turns out the doctor was wrong - no cancer. Now, is Johnny an idiot for following the advice of a medical professional? Or, is the doctor more at fault? Granted, Johnny should bare some responsibility, he could have gotten a second opinion, but who bears the brunt of the responsibility?

apples to oranges much?
purchasing a house is not even remotely comparable to cancer.

if you had said you tripped and got a scrap on your knee, and your doctor said your leg needs to be amputated and you blindly went ahead with it, then yes I will say that you're an idiot.
^ your analogy is as absurd as this one.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: paulxcook

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: paulxcook

Originally posted by: Gibson486
we get it. Live beyond means and have a bunch of ATOT peopel chastise the person. It's getting old.

Your reaction is just part of the cycle too, bud.

1. idiot does something
2. much of ATOT responds judgementally
3. smaller portion of ATOT judges larger for being judgemental

4. Other ATOTer points out hypocrisy of portion #3.

5. Other ATOTer points out INFINITE RECURSION

6. Other ATOTer points out that 4 and 5 are the same, so ste 5 was not followed as it calls for "other" ATOTer.

7. mugs burns down paulxcook's house. :evil:

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: NL5
Let's play a little game.

Suppose Johnny goes to the doctor. Doctor says, wow Johnny, looks like you have testicular cancer. I think you should have your balls cut off. (I don't know the technical term - lol). So, Johnny goes and schedules surgery, and they preform it perfectly. Now, they do a post op biopsy, and it turns out the doctor was wrong - no cancer. Now, is Johnny an idiot for following the advice of a medical professional? Or, is the doctor more at fault? Granted, Johnny should bare some responsibility, he could have gotten a second opinion, but who bears the brunt of the responsibility?

Johnny sues doctor and he and his lawyer retire to private island in the Pacific. And in the end, you and I, John Q. Billpayer pay higher healthcare costs because of it! :Q

/story

😛

No, because it Johnny's fault according to the OP, and most of the people in this thread. He would be laughed out of court, right?

Corporate and professional ethics are non-existent anymore. I have gone thru many mortage lenders, and all but one has flat out lied, and tried to talk me into things I knew were not in my best interest. Now, I am much more savvy than your average Joe Blow, I would even go so far as to say I am somewhat of a professional. I can see how easily someone without much mortage/RE experience would trust the PROFESSIONAL. In areas were I am not to savvy, I rely on professionals, especially when I am paying for their professional expertise. What the lenders and RE agents are doing is a crime in this state, as well as many others, but rarely are they held accountable. And yes, the general public will end up eating the bill AGAIN, for poor corporate policy. Why did we bail out Bear Stearns again? The airlines? Subsidize big oil? Now the looming mortage crisis?

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: Engineer
Wow...just wow. Not only are people stupid, it just goes to show how stupid the lending instituations were in giving out loans. No wonder EVERYONE (including the banks) are going down....and the rest of us that are responsible enough to pay our debts and not get over our heads, take it up the ass by giving a taxpayer bailout.

I blame the lenders on this one. Although I'm a big believer in personal responsibility. I find it almost laughable they would allow a $500,000 mortgage with no documentation and nothing more than a signature on a dotted line. In this case, the lender should eat the loss.

i don't see how you people can blame the lenders?
yes, they were greedy and were only looking to close the deal. but they didn't drag her out of her rental apartment and ask her if she wanted a $500k house.
she sought them out and probably said, i want to live in a nice neighborhood in a big house large enough for my family, and 2 of my daughter's families.

who in their right minds at that income level would even think about purchasing a house that expensive?

We're blaming both, not just the lenders. You even called greed into this one. It's the lenders responsibility, IMO, to make sure that people have the ability to repay a loan and I don't mean just barely either. Responsibility should be no BOTH sides and in this case, neither side showed responsibility....

Agreed, but ask yourself which party is in the better position and has more experience in helping to avoid the creation of a mortgage that in all likelihood would be impossible for the debtor to repay? A BANK and a REAL ESTATE BROKER who toil day in and day out with issuing mortgages, overseeing real estate sales, and making determinations as to whether a particular buyer has the financial means and stability for the purchase, OR, an immigrant working in a factory making $25,000 a year.

Yes, both are to blame, but there is a term called "predatory lending" and this one fits the bill.

That's why regulations from Fannie/Freddie will be pulled back in to play. Fannie/Freddie relaxed 25 housing loan rules in 2003 from the urging of the Bush administration in order to help many more minorities be able to purchase a home. While the idea may have seemed pretty good at the time, the OP (and the whole mortgage mess) is an example of the consequences of relaxed or removed regulations. As much as I dislike regulations, I dislike bailing out banks (or anyone else) even more.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: NL5
Let's play a little game.

Suppose Johnny goes to the doctor. Doctor says, wow Johnny, looks like you have testicular cancer. I think you should have your balls cut off. (I don't know the technical term - lol). So, Johnny goes and schedules surgery, and they preform it perfectly. Now, they do a post op biopsy, and it turns out the doctor was wrong - no cancer. Now, is Johnny an idiot for following the advice of a medical professional? Or, is the doctor more at fault? Granted, Johnny should bare some responsibility, he could have gotten a second opinion, but who bears the brunt of the responsibility?

Johnny sues doctor and he and his lawyer retire to private island in the Pacific. And in the end, you and I, John Q. Billpayer pay higher healthcare costs because of it! :Q

/story

😛

No, because it Johnny's fault according to the OP, and most of the people in this thread. He would be laughed out of court, right?

Corporate and professional ethics are non-existent anymore. I have gone thru many mortage lenders, and all but one has flat out lied, and tried to talk me into things I knew were not in my best interest. Now, I am much more savvy than your average Joe Blow, I would even go so far as to say I am somewhat of a professional. I can see how easily someone without much mortage/RE experience would trust the PROFESSIONAL. In areas were I am not to savvy, I rely on professionals, especially when I am paying for their professional expertise. What the lenders and RE agents are doing is a crime in this state, as well as many others, but rarely are they held accountable. And yes, the general public will end up eating the bill AGAIN, for poor corporate policy. Why did we bail out Bear Stearns again? The airlines? Subsidize big oil? Now the looming mortage crisis?

The above is why you'll see more and more regulations on all industries. Again, as bad as I dislike regulations, sometimes they are needed in order to keep the rest of us from bailing out the industry or even worse, the rampant fucking of the people by the said industry.

Responsibiltiy lies with BOTH parties in the above (and many other cases) case, IMO.

Oh, and unless ATOT is the jury on Johnny's lawsuit against the doctor, he'll still be sipping mixed drinks on that island with his doctor! 😛

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo


no, it was her own stupidity that got her.
you shouldn't purchase a home with the assumption of collecting rent as guaranteed income. unless you have a good amount of savings, your are screwed if your tenant doesn't pay or moves out.

i'll agree that the agent was a crook and the lending institution was also negligent and got what they deserved.

I agree she was probably over her head, but her investing strategy was still sound. What got her was the lie that she would be able to refinance. "Don't worry about the 'adjustable' part, you can just refi in a couple years". She was making the payments just fine until the rates jumped, and she couldn't refi due to the housing slump. Her decision was bases on a professional's advice.

I own rental properties, have for going on 15 years. I could never make the mortgages on my salary. Was that a stupid decision too? I'm laughing all the way to the bank. I have complete strangers paying my kids future college tuition.

I guess I am just as big of a moran. 😉

The question is would you buy a place and then rent out individual rooms in that house (while you were living there) to make the mortgage payment? Completely different than you owning separate rental properties that what the lady in the OP did. If one of her daughters moved out, then what? Rent the bedroom to a stranger? Sure thing....lol.

i was going to argue with that exact point, but i guess i was waiting for him to realize how stupid of an analogy that was, or someone else to point it out to him.

 

[sswingle]

So the family had 3 incomes (husband didn't work apparently?) and they couldn't scrape together another $300 a month?

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: NL5
Let's play a little game.

Suppose Johnny goes to the doctor. Doctor says, wow Johnny, looks like you have testicular cancer. I think you should have your balls cut off. (I don't know the technical term - lol). So, Johnny goes and schedules surgery, and they preform it perfectly. Now, they do a post op biopsy, and it turns out the doctor was wrong - no cancer. Now, is Johnny an idiot for following the advice of a medical professional? Or, is the doctor more at fault? Granted, Johnny should bare some responsibility, he could have gotten a second opinion, but who bears the brunt of the responsibility?

the difference here is that the doctor giving medical advice is educated in his line of work

the people running through the mortgage app with the lady have nothing but a few months of training and a high school diploma

Another point to mention is that the doctor isn't going to try to "sell" you a surgury to boost sales. The mortgage rep will. They provide to different services, and the mortgage rep has an aggressive incentive to get you to sign that paper.

Most mortgage brokers I've dealt with had a BA or better actually, and they are licensed professionals, and in this state at least, are responsible for their "advice". They lady could sue and win.

And doctors don't sell surgery? Pfft. Where have you been. Doctors don't get paid if you are sitting at home. I do agree though, that in general they are much more trustworthy than your typical corporate "professional".

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo


no, it was her own stupidity that got her.
you shouldn't purchase a home with the assumption of collecting rent as guaranteed income. unless you have a good amount of savings, your are screwed if your tenant doesn't pay or moves out.

i'll agree that the agent was a crook and the lending institution was also negligent and got what they deserved.

I agree she was probably over her head, but her investing strategy was still sound. What got her was the lie that she would be able to refinance. "Don't worry about the 'adjustable' part, you can just refi in a couple years". She was making the payments just fine until the rates jumped, and she couldn't refi due to the housing slump. Her decision was bases on a professional's advice.

I own rental properties, have for going on 15 years. I could never make the mortgages on my salary. Was that a stupid decision too? I'm laughing all the way to the bank. I have complete strangers paying my kids future college tuition.

I guess I am just as big of a moran. 😉

The question is would you buy a place and then rent out individual rooms in that house (while you were living there) to make the mortgage payment? Completely different than you owning separate rental properties that what the lady in the OP did. If one of her daughters moved out, then what? Rent the bedroom to a stranger? Sure thing....lol.

i was going to argue with that exact point, but i guess i was waiting for him to realize how stupid of an analogy that was, or someone else to point it out to him.

It is not a stupid analogy at all. Professional advice is professional advice, no? How are they different? She trusted PROFESSIONAL advice. Admittedly bad advice, but doctors do it all the time as well - nobody calls the patients "idiots".

AS far as would I rent out rooms in my house, yes, I did it in college, and I have had family live in my home twice, and they helped with the mortgage, so again, I guess I am a stupid moran - who's still laughing all the way to the bank........

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: NL5
It is not a stupid analogy at all. Professional advice is professional advice, no? How are they different? She trusted PROFESSIONAL advice. Admittedly bad advice, but doctors do it all the time as well - nobody calls the patients "idiots".

again, if you'll get your leg amputated because of a scrape based on the professional advice of a doctor, i WILL call you an idiot.

and again, stupid analogy.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: NL5


It is not a stupid analogy at all. Professional advice is professional advice, no? How are they different? She trusted PROFESSIONAL advice. Admittedly bad advice, but doctors do it all the time as well - nobody calls the patients "idiots".

AS far as would I rent out rooms in my house, yes, I did it in college, and I have had family live in my home twice, and they helped with the mortgage, so again, I guess I am a stupid moran - who's still laughing all the way to the bank........

That's because, generally, the doctor is right and you "could" die without treatment. You will not die by being stupid and purchasing a home when you cannot afford it, knowingly or not.

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: NL5
It is not a stupid analogy at all. Professional advice is professional advice, no? How are they different? She trusted PROFESSIONAL advice. Admittedly bad advice, but doctors do it all the time as well - nobody calls the patients "idiots".

again, if you'll get your leg amputated because of a scrape based on the professional advice of a doctor, i WILL call you an idiot.

and again, stupid analogy.

You are changing the analogy so as not to fit the original situation - bad professional advice, not ludicrous advice (they lady in the OP was fine making the payments for two years, it was the single piece of false advice that sunk her). Nobody is offering up an example of how they are different. How many years of schooling the professional has????? What about a civil engineer who has a BA, and comes out to your property and declares it is safe to build. Three years later, there is a landslide. Are you a moran for taking his advice? He has as much school as a typical mortgage broker. So what's the difference there?

 

[Slew Foot]

Originally posted by: NL5
Admittedly bad advice, but doctors do it all the time as well - nobody calls the patients "idiots".

I call patients idiots all the time but its usually when they dont follow my advice 🙂

And Ill call this lady an idiot as well. Seriously, if you're buying a place that has a 4100 mortgage and the rate SKYROCKETS to 4400, that's not going to break you. I mean seriosuly, 4100 and everything is find and dandy, but 4400 is "taking everything we have"? She shouldn't have gotten the house in the first place.

And on another note, why is the real estate agent offering her advice to refinance the mortgage. Is the realtor a mortgage expert? Just because they hang around mortgage people all day doesnt mean they know what they're talking about.

Would you trust the nurse if she said your balls needed to come off?

 

[Acanthus]

wow RTFA ATOT.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: sswingle
So the family had 3 incomes (husband didn't work apparently?) and they couldn't scrape together another $300 a month?

In my current situation I couldn't. Granted I rent currently, and am working on finding a new job and cheaper place to live (in my defense before ATOT jumps on me saying how I am part of the current problem, I am paying for college *mostly* out of pocket with limited loans. I made mistakes a few years back *buying a car for ex-fiancee namely* that I am still recovering from. Yes I was young and stupid at the time.).

This lady is a complete moron. I am looking to rent a place with the gf that either of us could afford on our own. That way if something happens with one of us the other can still afford it without having to move out. I would NEVER get a place with somebody (except a wife) that I couldn't afford on my own. That is just a HORRIBLE idea.

I make a tad more then her yearly, and I can't even IMAGINE paying $1100/mo for JUST RENT (in her case a mortgage). That is one whole paycheck gross, meaning 2/3 of my net goes to JUST my residence. Then factor in food, gas, utilities (on a house that big with that many people it wouldn't be cheap either), etc and you are literally working just to sustain yourself. No money to spend, it all goes to bills. I wouldn't ever even WANT to do that.

People in this country have some seriously effed up logic, and the news media just tries to paint a "poor them" picture. It's the banks fault no question about it, but whose more at fault? The bank who has a way to make money (granted its too risky but still chance for profit), or the debtor who is breaking even monthly trying to get an ARM b/c they cant afford a fixed rate? IMO the debtor is more at fault, but the bank shouldn't have even entertained her once her yearly earnings came out....

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: NL5
It is not a stupid analogy at all. Professional advice is professional advice, no? How are they different? She trusted PROFESSIONAL advice. Admittedly bad advice, but doctors do it all the time as well - nobody calls the patients "idiots".

again, if you'll get your leg amputated because of a scrape based on the professional advice of a doctor, i WILL call you an idiot.

and again, stupid analogy.

You are changing the analogy so as not to fit the original situation - bad professional advice, not ludicrous advice (they lady in the OP was fine making the payments for two years, it was the single piece of false advice that sunk her). Nobody is offering up an example of how they are different. How many years of schooling the professional has????? What about a civil engineer who has a BA, and comes out to your property and declares it is safe to build. Three years later, there is a landslide. Are you a moran for taking his advice? He has as much school as a typical mortgage broker. So what's the difference there?

The difference is that you still cannot spell "moron"

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot


Would you trust the nurse if she said your balls needed to come off?

Sorry, but I LOL!!! 😱

 

[neodyn55]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot

Originally posted by: NL5
Admittedly bad advice, but doctors do it all the time as well - nobody calls the patients "idiots".

I call patients idiots all the time but its usually when they dont follow my advice 🙂

And Ill call this lady an idiot as well. Seriously, if you're buying a place that has a 4100 mortgage and the rate SKYROCKETS to 4400, that's not going to break you. She shouldn't have gotten the house in the first place.

:thumbsup:

It went up by $300 and she lost it?

What kind of stupidity is that?

And all of you people blaming the professional - what if this woman needed that $300 for something else? What if there's a medical emergency or something, that required an outlay of $500 a month? Is that the professional's fault?

And have you ever heard of 'buyer beware'? If you're the one outlaying the money, then you have to do all the work.

I suppose in your world used car dealers are completely truthful about the car they sell, which always is in perfect condition at the best price.

that being said, she's paying the price (no pun intended) for her mistakes anyway so there's probably no point in chastising her further.

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: NL5
It is not a stupid analogy at all. Professional advice is professional advice, no? How are they different? She trusted PROFESSIONAL advice. Admittedly bad advice, but doctors do it all the time as well - nobody calls the patients "idiots".

again, if you'll get your leg amputated because of a scrape based on the professional advice of a doctor, i WILL call you an idiot.

and again, stupid analogy.

You are changing the analogy so as not to fit the original situation - bad professional advice, not ludicrous advice (they lady in the OP was fine making the payments for two years, it was the single piece of false advice that sunk her). Nobody is offering up an example of how they are different. How many years of schooling the professional has????? What about a civil engineer who has a BA, and comes out to your property and declares it is safe to build. Three years later, there is a landslide. Are you a moran for taking his advice? He has as much school as a typical mortgage broker. So what's the difference there?

The difference is that you still cannot spell "moron"

It's a joke - I guess in your infinite wisdom you missed that, and the "wink" after it the first time. You get on the internets much?

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: NL5
It is not a stupid analogy at all. Professional advice is professional advice, no? How are they different? She trusted PROFESSIONAL advice. Admittedly bad advice, but doctors do it all the time as well - nobody calls the patients "idiots".

again, if you'll get your leg amputated because of a scrape based on the professional advice of a doctor, i WILL call you an idiot.

and again, stupid analogy.

You are changing the analogy so as not to fit the original situation - bad professional advice, not ludicrous advice (they lady in the OP was fine making the payments for two years, it was the single piece of false advice that sunk her). Nobody is offering up an example of how they are different. How many years of schooling the professional has????? What about a civil engineer who has a BA, and comes out to your property and declares it is safe to build. Three years later, there is a landslide. Are you a moran for taking his advice? He has as much school as a typical mortgage broker. So what's the difference there?

i'm changing the analogy as much as you are... ability to afford a house compared to treatment of cancer.

yet you continue to make the ludicrous analogies.

civil engineer and building foundations now? fine, i'll play with that one too.
if a civil engineer tells me it's safe to build the next Twin Towers on top of some swamp land in Florida, and I agree to it, then yes i am an IDIOT.

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: DisgruntledVirus

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: NL5
It is not a stupid analogy at all. Professional advice is professional advice, no? How are they different? She trusted PROFESSIONAL advice. Admittedly bad advice, but doctors do it all the time as well - nobody calls the patients "idiots".

again, if you'll get your leg amputated because of a scrape based on the professional advice of a doctor, i WILL call you an idiot.

and again, stupid analogy.

You are changing the analogy so as not to fit the original situation - bad professional advice, not ludicrous advice (they lady in the OP was fine making the payments for two years, it was the single piece of false advice that sunk her). Nobody is offering up an example of how they are different. How many years of schooling the professional has????? What about a civil engineer who has a BA, and comes out to your property and declares it is safe to build. Three years later, there is a landslide. Are you a moran for taking his advice? He has as much school as a typical mortgage broker. So what's the difference there?

The difference is that you still cannot spell "moron"

It's a joke - I guess in your infinite wisdom you missed that, and the "wink" after it the first time. You get on the internets much?

Do a search just in ATOT for "moran". You'll get a million threads. Old and tired joke, but one that should have been readily obvious. I think Engineer caught it.

 

[NL5]

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: NL5

Originally posted by: BlahBlahYouToo

Originally posted by: NL5
It is not a stupid analogy at all. Professional advice is professional advice, no? How are they different? She trusted PROFESSIONAL advice. Admittedly bad advice, but doctors do it all the time as well - nobody calls the patients "idiots".

again, if you'll get your leg amputated because of a scrape based on the professional advice of a doctor, i WILL call you an idiot.

and again, stupid analogy.

You are changing the analogy so as not to fit the original situation - bad professional advice, not ludicrous advice (they lady in the OP was fine making the payments for two years, it was the single piece of false advice that sunk her). Nobody is offering up an example of how they are different. How many years of schooling the professional has????? What about a civil engineer who has a BA, and comes out to your property and declares it is safe to build. Three years later, there is a landslide. Are you a moran for taking his advice? He has as much school as a typical mortgage broker. So what's the difference there?

i'm changing the analogy as much as you are... ability to afford a house compared to treatment of cancer.

yet you continue to make the ludicrous analogies.

civil engineer and building foundations now? fine, i'll play with that one too.
if a civil engineer tells me it's safe to build the next Twin Towers on top of some swamp land in Florida, and I agree to it, then yes i am an IDIOT.

You are changing bad advice into utterly ludicrous advice. Period. Bad analogy.