- Jul 10, 2005
- 447
- 0
- 0
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Aimster
People who are rioting don't have anything other than their Quran.
What do you expect?
They have camels for rides.
Maybe if they had other things to look forward to in life.
They are poor. They are suffering. What keeps them happy is their prophets, God. It gives them hope of a better life.
So you agree they're insane?
No they are poor and uneducated.
I highly doubt in those countries you will see the higher class going to the streets. The lower scums from the villages go to the streets.
Exactly why in the U.S you don't see Muslims going out on the street. They are all pretty much educated in the U.S.
You're wrong, most of the 9/11 terrorists were educated, and I've seen SEVERAL reports of STUDENTS rioting and burning embassies...it's not just the poor and uneducated, it's the educated and affluent as well.
Originally posted by: ArneBjarne
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: blueshoe
Originally posted by: coolkatz321
Let's start this post off as easily as possible. I'm Jewish, and let me say that when people make fun of the Holocaust, I normally get somewhat offended. No, I don't run around killig people and burning buildings to the ground, I just shrug it off and continue on with my life.
I've seen plenty of cartoons making fun of Jesus. Christians that look at them may get offended, but they don't riot. They might write a letter, but that's about it.
And now, we come to the Muslims. I have read tons of articles, and several books on why the religion of Islam shouldn't be though of as a violent one. Then, we get the cartoons. They're just cartoons, nothing worse. What's the reaction? Death to Denmark! Burn everything that has to do with them! Look, you can be Muslim, but no one can honestly condone what is happening. They're insane, and I was actually pleased to find out today that the Pakistani government has been stopping these protests. Enough is enough; get over it! A drawing is a drawing. From what I understood, the Koran teaches respect, not insanity. Thoughts?
I don't see them as "just cartoons". If it was any other Muslim other than the prophet in the cartoon, I doubt the riots would have happened. You compared it to cartoons that make fun of Jesus-- pictures of Jesus have been around for a long time, but pictures of Mohammad are forbidden. I'm not saying that it makes everything right or anything, a cartoon that makes fun of Jesus should be frowned upon by Musilims as well. I'm just saying that drawing Mohammad in the first place can cause a lot of controversy.
Do I think that they are insane for standing up to show how they feel? No. They should do that. But they certainly shouldn't have gone in the direction that would harm or destroy anything or anyone. In the Friday Prayers today (I'm Muslim), the Imam actually mentioned this and said that Muslims should respond to things like this. But he also added we must be reasonable, without that harming innocent people or destroying things like others have done.
By the way, there are millions of Muslims in the United States. Where are the riots? I know that many, including myslef were offended.
Are you in the US? You are offended, as you have the right to be, but you are also respecting the laws of the country that guarantee the right to freedom of speech. Those in Europe and elsewhere who are rioting, torching cars and embassies, killing people, and calling for "another 9/11" are clearly not respecting that right, and are not respecting the basic concept of rule of law.
Who made that the basic concept of rule of law?
Are you in the US? You are offended, as you have the right to be, but you are also respecting the laws of the country that guarantee the right to freedom of speech. Those in Europe and elsewhere who are rioting, torching cars and embassies, killing people, and calling for "another 9/11" are clearly not respecting that right, and are not respecting the basic concept of rule of law.
Originally posted by: Condor
If there is a difference, it doesn't show.Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: Condor
They have enough money and education to plot, plan, and kill!Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Aimster
People who are rioting don't have anything other than their Quran.
What do you expect?
They have camels for rides.
Maybe if they had other things to look forward to in life.
They are poor. They are suffering. What keeps them happy is their prophets, God. It gives them hope of a better life.
So you agree they're insane?
No they are poor and uneducated.
I highly doubt in those countries you will see the higher class going to the streets. The lower scums from the villages go to the streets.
Exactly why in the U.S you don't see Muslims going out on the street. They are all pretty much educated in the U.S.
No Money?
Obviously you are mistaking the protesters with the terrorists.
Originally posted by: coolkatz321
They want to shape up their image, but then they do this crap. It's nuts, that's all I can say.
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: ArneBjarne
Originally posted by: The Green Bean
Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Originally posted by: blueshoe
Originally posted by: coolkatz321
Let's start this post off as easily as possible. I'm Jewish, and let me say that when people make fun of the Holocaust, I normally get somewhat offended. No, I don't run around killig people and burning buildings to the ground, I just shrug it off and continue on with my life.
I've seen plenty of cartoons making fun of Jesus. Christians that look at them may get offended, but they don't riot. They might write a letter, but that's about it.
And now, we come to the Muslims. I have read tons of articles, and several books on why the religion of Islam shouldn't be though of as a violent one. Then, we get the cartoons. They're just cartoons, nothing worse. What's the reaction? Death to Denmark! Burn everything that has to do with them! Look, you can be Muslim, but no one can honestly condone what is happening. They're insane, and I was actually pleased to find out today that the Pakistani government has been stopping these protests. Enough is enough; get over it! A drawing is a drawing. From what I understood, the Koran teaches respect, not insanity. Thoughts?
I don't see them as "just cartoons". If it was any other Muslim other than the prophet in the cartoon, I doubt the riots would have happened. You compared it to cartoons that make fun of Jesus-- pictures of Jesus have been around for a long time, but pictures of Mohammad are forbidden. I'm not saying that it makes everything right or anything, a cartoon that makes fun of Jesus should be frowned upon by Musilims as well. I'm just saying that drawing Mohammad in the first place can cause a lot of controversy.
Do I think that they are insane for standing up to show how they feel? No. They should do that. But they certainly shouldn't have gone in the direction that would harm or destroy anything or anyone. In the Friday Prayers today (I'm Muslim), the Imam actually mentioned this and said that Muslims should respond to things like this. But he also added we must be reasonable, without that harming innocent people or destroying things like others have done.
By the way, there are millions of Muslims in the United States. Where are the riots? I know that many, including myslef were offended.
Are you in the US? You are offended, as you have the right to be, but you are also respecting the laws of the country that guarantee the right to freedom of speech. Those in Europe and elsewhere who are rioting, torching cars and embassies, killing people, and calling for "another 9/11" are clearly not respecting that right, and are not respecting the basic concept of rule of law.
Who made that the basic concept of rule of law?
Are you in the US? You are offended, as you have the right to be, but you are also respecting the laws of the country that guarantee the right to freedom of speech. Those in Europe and elsewhere who are rioting, torching cars and embassies, killing people, and calling for "another 9/11" are clearly not respecting that right, and are not respecting the basic concept of rule of law.
Who made freedom of speech the basic concept rule of law for those living outside the US. If you were better educated, you would have realized that the rest of the world are not bound to follow rules of any foreign country - be it the most powerful country in the world. Thats where you are wrong. You have to learn to respect the laws of other countries and cultures. You cannot impose your laws or way of governance upon every living soul on this planet. This planet does not belong to America. America belongs to this planet.
P.S I definately donot respect the laws of a country that commits tortures, and wages illegal wars.
Originally posted by: sheik124
You honestly can't take the handful (out of 1.2 billion) Muslims that are rioting (maniacally at that) as a representation of all Muslims, can you? I'm Muslim myself, and even though it doesn't make an ounce of difference publicly, I personally, and all the other Muslims I know, are disgusted at these reactions. The way these people have reacted, burning embassies, violent riots, "Death to Denmark" is so contradictory to the Sunnah (practices and sayings of the Prophet) that its revolting.
Some of the Jews of Madina used to tell the Prophet "Al-Saam Alaikum" regularly, this is in contrast to the usual greeting of "Al-Salamu Alaikum". One means "poison be upon you", the other means "peace be upon you". The Prophet didn't order armies in to flog the Jews (remember, the Muslims controlled Madina), he actually told the Sahaba [companions] to just leave them be, and not even go as far as insulting them, their religion, or any aspects of it, to keep them from insulting God, as it is a sin they are unknowing of. And he didn't respond violently or irrationally himself, he used to shrug it off and say "Wa-Alaikum", or "upon you too".
When the Prophet went to Taaif to call their people to Islam, him and his companions were stoned out of the city. The Angel Jibreel [Gabriel] told him that if he liked, he'd bring down two large mountains that surrounded the city in on them. The Prophet said no, leave them, so that one of their offspring may be guided to Islam.
If you want to make any assumptions or definitions about Islam, make them from the practices of the Prophet Muhammad, not from nutjobs.
Originally posted by: Crusader
They are not insane.
People feel they have the freedom to do or publish whatever they want..
well
sometimes there are consequences when you KNOW you are going to make someone who very firmly believes in a religous belief angry.
You sow disrespect and hatred.. you will reap that.
I see no fault with the Muslim fury. Talk about disrespect of a religon. Those publishers knew what was coming. It was liberal arrogance.
I could publish something like that too, but I wouldnt. Its called respect and restraint.
Originally posted by: MrPabulum
Originally posted by: Crusader
They are not insane.
People feel they have the freedom to do or publish whatever they want..
well
sometimes there are consequences when you KNOW you are going to make someone who very firmly believes in a religous belief angry.
You sow disrespect and hatred.. you will reap that.
I see no fault with the Muslim fury. Talk about disrespect of a religon. Those publishers knew what was coming. It was liberal arrogance.
I could publish something like that too, but I wouldnt. Its called respect and restraint.
There is an important difference between self-restraint/self-regulation on its own accord, and the same thing in the face of violence. Consider the sickening irony on display: three of those cartoons depicted the violent threads of Islam. Groups of people (incited by clever imams armed with Danish flags) responded with naked violence. Criticize all you want; protest and march night and day till your blue in the face for that is your right in Western European countries. But violence or incitement to violence? Are you kidding me?
Islam is in urgent need of reform. And soon.
Originally posted by: Crusader
Originally posted by: MrPabulum
Originally posted by: Crusader
They are not insane.
People feel they have the freedom to do or publish whatever they want..
well
sometimes there are consequences when you KNOW you are going to make someone who very firmly believes in a religous belief angry.
You sow disrespect and hatred.. you will reap that.
I see no fault with the Muslim fury. Talk about disrespect of a religon. Those publishers knew what was coming. It was liberal arrogance.
I could publish something like that too, but I wouldnt. Its called respect and restraint.
There is an important difference between self-restraint/self-regulation on its own accord, and the same thing in the face of violence. Consider the sickening irony on display: three of those cartoons depicted the violent threads of Islam. Groups of people (incited by clever imams armed with Danish flags) responded with naked violence. Criticize all you want; protest and march night and day till your blue in the face for that is your right in Western European countries. But violence or incitement to violence? Are you kidding me?
Islam is in urgent need of reform. And soon.
I would disagree. The west is in need of reform so that they arent taken over. The way things are looking, Europe will have a revolution and will become Islamic states.
With traditional national pride, and basically any western right-wing ideology being stamped out in Euope.. their natural defenses are eliminated.
With the weak leftist ideology of appeasement and surrender that currently has hold in Europe.. there is no doubt in my mind Europe will be ran over within the next 50 years.
Its ironic, but the only thing that can save the liberals great 'individualistic/free' societies are the nationalistic identity based right wing.
They are throwing away their only defense (the right) as if we are trash and not on the same team.
All we are doing is waking up that the true enemy isnt Islam or that it needs to change, but the weak left that has infested Europe and the USA.
I stand firm in the belief that liberal european governments will be overran without right wing support of national identity and pride. Granted, they will be giving up political power for a while.. but at least it will ensure their continued existence (which wont exist under Islamic states).
So liberals, pick your poison.. us (right wing) or them (this Islamic stuff you seem to be so disgusted with).
I'm not disgusted with it, because it makes sense.. you disgrace someones prophet.. you might get your head cut off. I cant say I blame them. Watch your tongues and start treating people with some respect.I give people respect if they deserve it. Thats all anyone of us can really do.
I like how disgracing someones prophet is punishable by beheading...yeah that makes perfect sense. :roll: Does this please the disgraced prophet? I am curious about that.
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Hate to be the one to break it to ya but money and education don't provide common sense. These people are compleely lacking in that category. They are nuts.Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: Aimster
People who are rioting don't have anything other than their Quran.
What do you expect?
They have camels for rides.
Maybe if they had other things to look forward to in life.
They are poor. They are suffering. What keeps them happy is their prophets, God. It gives them hope of a better life.
So you agree they're insane?
No they are poor and uneducated.
I highly doubt in those countries you will see the higher class going to the streets. The lower scums from the villages go to the streets.
Exactly why in the U.S you don't see Muslims going out on the street. They are all pretty much educated in the U.S.
They are nuts, because they go out on the street over something that upsets them?
You mean to tell me that kind of stuff doesn't happen all around the world?
To riot, burn embassies, kill people... over a CARTOON? Yes. They are nuts.
lolOriginally posted by: theprodigalrebel
(irrespective of all religions...we hate the police more than americans hate lawyers & muslims combined)...
Originally posted by: OrByte
I give people respect if they deserve it. Thats all anyone of us can really do.
I like how disgracing someones prophet is punishable by beheading...yeah that makes perfect sense. :roll: Does this please the disgraced prophet? I am curious about that.
Originally posted by: theprodigalrebel
I won't quote anyone because most people hate scrolling down pages to read a 2-sentence rebuttal. Not that this is a 2-sentence rebuttal or anything.
Muslims aren't exactly nuts. You know why riots happen?
I'm from Hyderabad, India. Last Friday, there was a riot here on the cartoon. I can tell you for certain how it happened, based on eyewitness accounts: myself included.
Imagine 10,000 or something protestors, all peacefully...err...protesting in the 105 degrees fahrenheit daytime. There's a few hundred police personnel on standby - just in case. A half-hour or so after mega-phone speeches and cheering, a few gang-members (the kind you can hire for a $100 to send someone to a hospital bed) got into a fight with some of their rivals. It started with approx 10 guys against a handful. A few people around tried to intervene and stop: some of them were accidentally struck in their efforts to stop it. The police then noticed what was happening and took out their sticks and intervened. Now people in India LOVE to beat up the police any chance they get (irrespective of all religions...we hate the police more than americans hate lawyers & muslims combined)...and a couple of 17-18 something punks started ganging up against the cops...that's when the riot police swept into full gear and it just...exploded within minutes... a guy sees his best friend get socked in the jaw by a cop - he lobs a glass bottle at the cops. A dude sees his Dad get kicked in the nuts - he improvises a molotov cocktail and sets it loose on the cops. A few minutes later, members of the BJP (Bharatiya Janta Party) arrive with "These Muslims are a violent bunch who pose a threat to Nationalism....For them, its Islam first, then the State" banners...now all muslims HATE the BJP (The politcal party that sponsored the 2001 Gujarat riots=the closest thing to a holocaust in recent history)....so the formerly-peacful-protestors turn into a crazy-mob and start going after them....complete pandemonium ensued...
These people aren't nuts....things just...happen.
The fact that Christians don't react to cartoons depicting Christ in a negative way is just wrong. Christians SHOULD make their displeasure felt strongly. (What the hell was buddy christ in kevin smith's dogma?) If you don't feel like respecting religion, at least don't disrespect it (or endorse disrespect). Be neutral - like switzerland.
I was deeply offended by the cartoons depicting the Prophet (pbuh) as a crazed lunatic. I was deeply offended by the fact that the cartoon implied the Prophet himself (not OBL or the radical morons) endorsed killing all "infidels" or WTH.
and for the last time: muslims don't hate americans or non-muslims. we hate your governments. we hate your double standards. and we are willing to ignore that you peace-lovers went around killing Sikhs thinking they were Arabs after 9/11 and lobbed Molotovs at Mosques in England. We understand that there's ****** posing as people everywhere...Yes, we all chant "Death to Bush" & "Death to Sharon"...somehow, its only the west that wants to "Gas them all Muslim-freaks" & "Nuke them All"...
Ever hear a muslim say anything remotely negative about The Apostle Christ or Moses?