Some Interesting Quotes For CS Majors....

shifrbv

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Feb 21, 2000
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Age and experience, which elsewhere get people promoted, are no help in the IT industry; on the contrary, there is a distinct bias in favor of youth. Nowadays the average software-engineering qualification becomes obsolete in around five years, so a student fresh out of college may be more valuable to a company than a 30-year-old. - The Economist, March 29,2001

Five years after finishing college, about 60 percent of computer science graduates are working as programmers; at 15 years the figure drops to 34 percent, and at 20 years - when most are still only age 42 or so - it is down to 19 percent. Clearly part of this attrition is voluntary, but most are forced to seek other work when they see the handwriting on the cubicle wall: Employers do not want to hire older programmers. - National Survey of College Graduates, 1999

Only 2% of hiring managers would seek an IT worker having more than 10 years of experience. - Informationweek Survey, March 12, 2000

Once word gets around among the students about the short-lived careers in this field, employers may well find in the coming years that their current hiring policies deter students from majoring in computer science. If at the same time, the world supply of H-1Bs decreases due to development of software industries abroad (as predicted by the Stanford Computer Industry Project in 1995, and coming true in 2000, when Germany, England, Japan and Israel all were considering starting ``H-1B'' programs of their own), U.S. employers will indeed have shot themselves in the foot. -Debunking the IT Labor Shortage, August 2000, Dr. Normal Matloff, UCDavis

Graham Miller, current Stanford computer science student, is already thinking about what will be his exit strategy from the CS field. ``Programmers only last up to 10 years or so,'' Miller said. ``After that, you need to find something else to do.'' New York Times, January 12, 2000

 

Shy

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Dec 4, 2000
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I wish I had some quotes to add from my friends who graduated as CS Majors last spring and still don't have jobs...

-Shy
 

GoldenGuppy

Diamond Member
Feb 4, 2000
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shifrbv - it's common for workplaces to want to hiring fresh workers straight out of college... especially with something that is advanced as the computer science industry.

However, I don't see why the figure really drop for the hiring of older people in the field... experience should account for something, and isn't it true that these people with their work-experience are more valuable to an industry (if he/she keeps up w/ the times of change in technology) than a new student?

I guess that the coding that students learn in college today are definitely different from those of past students who are now workers...

Here's another related topic... there has seem to be an immediate surge in the interest of the Comp Sci workfield as of late... what this brings about in my point of view is a need for a better understanding of what you are doing if you are going to compete for a position in the workforce.

There are millions of people out there waiting to get a job, and most of them have about the same knowledge as you do... however, there comes a time now when where you study really has an effect of where you work... it is understanable that a student graduating as an ICS major from LB State is no competition for a student graduating from Stanford (that much is obvious)

To get to the point, I think that this might just bring about even more competition at younger ages for students in HS... parents will want their kids to start learning during their early teen years so that they can get a headstart in this competitive field..

Hey, before y'know it... there might be Comp Sci prodigies at the age of 4 (unless there already are) ;)

><GG>
 

Pretender

Banned
Mar 14, 2000
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Damn, I've been programming in C++ for 4 years and I'm not going into college until 2002. By the time I get out, I'll be almost obsolete.
 

shifrbv

Senior member
Feb 21, 2000
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However, I don't see why the figure really drop for the hiring of older people in the field... experience should account for something, and isn't it true that these people with their work-experience are more valuable to an industry (if he/she keeps up w/ the times of change in technology) than a new student?

It seems like it should be, but in IT where &quot;senior&quot; positions only average 4-6 years experience, there is quite a bit of age discrimination. Remember all those lawsuits againsts Intel and others who tried to get rid of older workers (avoiding paying retirement packages and even in the recent layoffs earlier this year) Also, younger people, whoever they are (H1-B or US), demand less pay than someone who is older and has experience.

I feel bad for the glut of CS people who are coming out of college today. They might have it good for awhile (if they are lucky enough to find a job), but time will eventually catch up to them and they'll be obsolete. In time, there degree will be no more significant than someone who majored in speech or philosophy. Hopefully they'll have something to fall back on because according to statitics very few of them will make into management.
 

Kosugi

Senior member
Jan 9, 2001
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Semantics semantics semantics...


Programmers are entry level. If after 5 years you haven't moved beyond programming to something more &quot;analytical&quot; in nature, then you have done something wrong, or should consider a new field.


I've 29 years in IT. We hire from colleges and contractors to staff low level positions. Our architects (almost all of them), have at least 15 years of experience. They make in and around the 6 figure mark. With Senior architects making 100k+.

About 4 years ago I opted out of &quot;Strategic Architecture&quot; for a normal management position.. I'll be able to retire in 2 years, and I didn't want the stress.

So, those articles are somewhat correct. I wouldn't hire someone with 10 years of experience as a programmer... I'd hire them as a systems analyst.

Technology comes and goes, just keep your training up.
 

shifrbv

Senior member
Feb 21, 2000
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Kosugi - While I can see where you are coming from with you're vast experience in IT, I do believe that for people just starting out it will be quite a different ballgame.

Case in point, 2 years ago, I worked for a Dow 10 company (I won't name names here). Anyway, they had a large IT group composed of many people who had been with the company for many years. About 6 months into my position, they had a huge IT layoff, mainly the older folks (DBA's, systems analysts, system designers, IT managers, etc.) and it was pretty bitter for most of them. By the time I left, there was no one left in IT who was older than about 35 (with the exception of the CIO) who was in his early 40's. Any hiring that was done after that period was strictly college grads with 4.0 GPA (in which there was only 1 hired in my division) paid obscenely low salaries (for a Dow 10 company) or young tech consultants, outsourced. That's it.

Times may have been good in the past, but I think the future will be rocky for alot of CS people.

 

HKSturboKID

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2000
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Famous Technician Quote:

When you go fix a pc for a client and you can figure out whats wrong with it, just say u be back in a few and jet outta there. Better yet if that didn't work, always blame on the network and have level 2 people support it. hehehe :)
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
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<< I wish I had some quotes to add from my friends who graduated as CS Majors last spring and still don't have jobs...

-Shy
>>


what school?
 

DannyLove

Lifer
Oct 17, 2000
12,876
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dannylove[G] radio: Enemy Down!

danny~!

edit: wow, that is interesting. And I can see how that is. It is so true, and I'm darn glad that i did not major in CS
 

gopunk

Lifer
Jul 7, 2001
29,239
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here's some more interesting quotes (from some of my cs t-shirts):

&quot;sleep is for the weak&quot;

and in the context of a comparison of gregorian monks and cs majors:
&quot;monks: vow of celibacy&quot;
&quot;cs majors: effectively the same thing&quot;
 

Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
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you guys are nuts, cs majors make good money and as long as your good it is probably one of the most valuable undergraduate degrees you can get.
 

hans007

Lifer
Feb 1, 2000
20,212
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if you get a CS degree you can get into anything,. Having that degree alone gives like the label, creative organized problem solver. Thats why people program forever, who in their right mind would want to do that anyways
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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From the IT shortage thread I read about half of the massive page that was linked in there - I guess shif's link. It ain't pretty. Made me sad. In fact I wish I hadn't of read it, but I coulnd't help myself.

it is probably one of the most valuable undergraduate degrees you can get.

Thats the sad part. CS degree is probably the best undergrad and it still doesn't gaurantee a job!
 

Shy

Golden Member
Dec 4, 2000
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<< what school? >>



A well known one, I'll say that much.

-Shy