Some advice on computer hangs....

[Dougster]

Hi,

I few months ago I built a computer for my sister, and now I'm having some problems with it, and I wondered if someone here can direct me towards the best way to troubleshoot them.

The problem is simple, every now and again the computer just completely hangs... only a hard reset will bring it back to life. I am 99% sure this is not a heat problem. The PII 450 has a large heatsink and fan, and is not overclocked. I don't have a thermistor, but the CPU is hardly warm to the touch after hours of use.

I've had a play around, and it "seems" to freeze when the network card is being used. This could be a coincidence, but I have swapped the NIC just to see if it makes a difference... it hasn't.

The motherboad is an ECS P6BX-A+

If someone could tell me the best way to locate the problem, I'd be most grateful.

Many thanks.

 

[MCS]

Try to find out if it DEFINITELY hangs during network access and get back to us

 

[Dougster]

Ok,

I've never seen it hang when the network isn't being used, and it usually hangs when there's a high network load.

The problem is these hangs are quite rare and she's nearly always using the nework for something or other... internet access included.

 

[FordLorider]

Sounds like it could be a ton of things, I thik we need some more info about what is exactly going on when she freezes.

 

[Dougster]

That's my problem... I realise it could be a ton of things.

I've seen it hang about 4 times myself... once on an install of a program, once while chatting on MSN, twice while I was remote admining it via the network (Remote Administraror).

Aparently it will crash at any time... while word processing for example. But the majority of times it's when she's on the internet. But the problem is, she uses it for the internet more than anything else.

 

[MCS]

Network cards are notoriously bad for complete system freeze ups. The first place I would start it look at your IRQ list. Is the card sharing with another device? I had a network card that HAD to IRQ 5 and would not share it (Windows98SE). Under 2000 it was fine with any IRQ.

 

[Dougster]

Ok, on IRQ 11 we have the NIC, SB Live Value, USB Host Controller and IRQ Holder for PCI Steering.

Pretty crowded! I'll try and shoofty them around when I get back from the dentist () and let you know if it works.

 

[skace]

The SB Live and his gang of thugs (LiveThugs TM) are holding your NIC card for ransom!

 

[MCS]

Yes keep the Live and the NIC seperated!

Is it an ISA network card?

 

[Dougster]

No, a PCI one. Linksys 10/100.

What's the best way of seperating their IRQs? I can't change the IRQ of either via the Properties dialog on the Device manager.

 

[bacillus]

post a full list of your irqs!

 

[Dougster]

0 System timer
1 Standard 101/102-Key or Microsoft Natural Keyboard
2 Programmable interrupt controller
3 Communications Port (COM2)
4 Communications Port (COM1)
5 Creative SB Live! SB16 Emulation
6 Standard Floppy Disk Controller
7 Printer Port (LPT1)
8 System CMOS/real time clock
9 (free)
10 S3 Trio64V+ PCI (765)
10 IRQ Holder for PCI Steering
11 Linksys LNE100TX Fast Ethernet Adapter
11 Creative SB Live! Value
11 Intel 82371AB/EB PCI to USB Universal Host Controller
11 IRQ Holder for PCI Steering
12 PS/2 Compatible Mouse Port
13 Numeric data processor
14 Primary IDE controller (dual fifo)
14 Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller
15 Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo)
15 Intel 82371AB/EB PCI Bus Master IDE Controller

 

[bacillus]

<< I have swapped the NIC just to see if it makes a difference >>


does that mean that you moved the nic to another slot with not improvement??
assuming that the sb &amp; nic aren't using a shared slot ie slots which use the same irq (the m/board manual will tell you what slots are shared) then go into bios &amp; set irq 9 for the slot sb is in. you will also have to set PnP OS to no. this will seperate your nic from your sb.
I would also disable sb emulation in device manager if you do play dos games!

 

[Dougster]

<< does that mean that you moved the nic to another slot with not improvement?? >>



Well I did that first, but what I was actually meaning there, was that I put in a new NIC.

I'm not with her computer right now, I'll drive over there in a bit and see if all this solves the problem.

Thanks for all your help so far guys.

 

[Dougster]

Ok,

Te only thing related to IRQs I can change in the BIOS is each IRQ can be set to either &quot;PCI/ISA PnP&quot; or &quot;ISA Legacy Device&quot;. Not much use.

The manual mentions nothing about IRQs other than the above.

Is it time to get physical and start swapping cards?

 

[bacillus]

usually in bios, under pci configuration, all the slots are set to auto. you need to select the slot which has the sb &amp; force it to use irq 9 by changing auto to irq9!

 

[Dougster]

Nope... I really can't see anything like that. I know what you mean, but it just isn't there on this BIOS. If you don't trust me the manual is here.

 

[bacillus]

look under pnp/pci configuration option.
change resources control method to manual from auto &amp; a new screen should appear giving you the slot/irq options.

 

[Dougster]

No cigar I'm afraid, that's the option I was talking about earlier.

Once it is switched to manual, you can then specify each IRQ as Legacy ISA, if it is so required. That's the only function that maual brings up that I can see.

Arghhhh, such a simple thing on most mobos... why does this one have to be awkward!!

 

[bacillus]

hmm, if the slots aren't shared then I suggest you temporarily remove the sb, boot up &amp; shut down. install the sb again &amp; see if it uses the free irq9.
if the slot is shared, just move the sb to another slot.

 

[bacillus]

oops, just remove the card but leave all the sb drivers &amp; s/ware installed!

 

[Dougster]

Ok, I've got the SB on IRQ 9 (by swapping PCI slots) and for good measure I've disabled the USB controller.. she has no USB devices.

Let's hope that's done the trick.

Many many thanks for you help.

 

[stevel114]

Trouble shooting is a art form so grab your brush,
The only way to trouble shoot reliable is know all the possible elements your are dealing with and figure out a way to eliminate them. First thing you need to know is hangs can be caused by multiple events. The 2 biggest bandits that normally cause the this problem is cheap memory and corrupted software. If you can use different memory from another computer try swapping that, or if possible reduce the memory in half, if the problem returns then install the first half of the memory back and pull the last half out. If you still have the problem then look at seeing the easiest route to starting with a fresh OS (maybe ghost the current software off, wipe it clean and reinstall the apps). If you have eliminated the first 2 bandits, then look at the cards installed in the PC. Again, try to remove one at a time to you see if the problem comes back again or you feel it is fixed. Moving cards around right off the bat can cause more problems sometimes than they fix. I would only do that if Windows showed a obvious problem, or if it didn't boot right. Was the current hardware functioning properly before you moved the data around? If it was then unless something is starting to fail the hardware is probably OK. My bet is that the tremedously reliable Windows 98is having problems. Good luck.

SL

 

[Dougster]

Well after all that playing about with the NIC... I was still getting hangs.

So I started to follow stevel114's advice... and headed for the RAM.

The system had two 128Mb DIMMS... I removed one, still getting hangs, but this time VERY quickly. Swapped it for the other, and so far everything has gone swimmingly. (Touch wood!)

It may be generic RAM, but I have a lifetime warrenty... hopefuly I can get it replaced.

Thank you very much people!

If it still hasn't done the trick I'm sure I'll be back for more!