Some 2013 Challenger V6 recalled - stop driving.

[LTC8K6]

Not to mention that conventional vehicle sales are probably the only reason you can buy a Volt at all...

 

[996GT2]

Because it's a muscle car, and 0-60 in 6.3s is not muscle by today's standards. If you don't want "epic burnouts that inspire Bruce Springsteen songs," go get a Camry instead of riding around in a wannabe muscle car. It's like offering a V6 Vette. I don't care if 320hp is good enough for you, it's not a Vette. Sorry. What you have instead is an old lady's car, with a muscle car shell. I've driven an automatic V6 Camaro and it was horrible. It was like the life was sucked out of a muscle car. Horrible.

What I find funny are these morons that ride around in a V6 Mustang with a racing stripe. I just want to ask them, what are you racing? A Camry? IMO, the only Mustang that I think deserves the racing stripe is the GT500 (not including the Boss 302). All other models look goofy with it.

A V6 Mustang/Challenger/Camaro today has more horsepower than a V8 Mustang from just a few years ago. Your argument is invalid.

 

[craiggloyd]

AFAIK, there isn't an 8 speed V6 Challenger.

How in the world you thought front wheel drive hybrids belonged in this thread is beyond me. No one was arguing that a V6 Challenger got the best fuel economy. The economy is reasonable in comparison to the performance, and also in comparison to earlier V8's.

If you modify the Volt, then we get to modify the Challenger. You can't modify one and say "I win!".

The Volt and the Accord are front wheel drive, and thus not really in this game.

The reminder of the weight of the Volt, reminds me that it's not paying it's fair share of road use taxes at all, yet the government subsidizes it, and other such vehicles, while complaining that highway revenue is decreasing.

Well, the Volt hack is simply a reflashing of ECU(s); software, so the engine can connect to the transmission at lower speeds and in addition to full electric motor power, rather than the stock behavior of just directly engaging at ~70MPH and faster for efficiency's sake (parallel hybrid mode).
Assuming the driver just puts it in hack mode (hold mode) for brief periods of time for spirited driving/passing, it wouldn't impact efficiency that much.

Go ahead and modify the Challenger/Charger. You can hack it to run lean but then power will be down and knock may occur if you lean it too much even with the knock sensor.

1 of the main reasons is because it weighs so dang much. The Challenger/Charger/Camaro are all about 3700 pounds and it's because it uses cheap steel rather than high tech alloys. They could probably make it 3,200 pounds if they used high tech steel, maybe a bit less if they used some aluminum too.

Same deal with the Cruze(~3150 pounds)/Cruze Diesel (~3350pounds)/Volt(~3700 pounds). The Volt has a ~450 pound battery pack though (plus electric motors), very heavy for the 16.5KWH that it stores, hopefully they'll be able to lean that up in the coming years.

So weight, but also engine efficiency. The efficiency of the '14 Accord hybrid engine is the best since it is Atkinson cycle. The Volt and other cars are regular OTTO cycle.

 

[LTC8K6]

Well, the Volt hack is simply a reflashing of ECU(s); software, so the engine can connect to the transmission at lower speeds and in addition to full electric motor power, rather than the stock behavior of just directly engaging at ~70MPH and faster for efficiency's sake (parallel hybrid mode).
Assuming the driver just puts it in hack mode (hold mode) for brief periods of time for spirited driving/passing, it wouldn't impact efficiency that much.

Go ahead and modify the Challenger/Charger. You can hack it to run lean but then power will be down and knock may occur if you lean it too much even with the knock sensor.

1 of the main reasons is because it weighs so dang much. The Challenger/Charger/Camaro are all about 3700 pounds and it's because it uses cheap steel rather than high tech alloys. They could probably make it 3,200 pounds if they used high tech steel, maybe a bit less if they used some aluminum too.

Same deal with the Cruze(~3150 pounds)/Cruze Diesel (~3350pounds)/Volt(~3700 pounds). The Volt has a ~450 pound battery pack though (plus electric motors), very heavy for the 16.5KWH that it stores, hopefully they'll be able to lean that up in the coming years.

So weight, but also engine efficiency. The efficiency of the '14 Accord hybrid engine is the best since it is Atkinson cycle. The Volt and other cars are regular OTTO cycle.

What's with the silly high school "cheap steel" crack? You can't make a car with "cheap steel" any more, whatever that term is supposed to mean.

The hood isn't even steel...

I know all about the Volt hacks. I was calling early on for Volt hacks, before you could buy the car, and I took a hell of a lot of flack at this board for a particular one that I wanted for the Volt.

The Volt simply doesn't belong in this thread. No one is cross shopping Volts and Challengers.

People are cross shopping Volts and Cruzes, and the Cruze wins the economic battle by a wide margin, imo. As do other such cars in comparison to the Volt, imo.

 

[LTC8K6]

The LX platform is actually made of lots of high-tech and high strength modern steel, of course. Along with some aluminum.

 

[SSSnail]

Who buys a V6 Challenger? Those things have to be horrendously slow.

Same people that would buy a V6 'Stang? Mostly chicks.

 

[nerp]

Cheap steel? Give me a break. What kind of nonsense is that? I understand Chrysler has had quality issues in the past but completely made up bullcrap like that is just stupid.

 

[Meghan54]

Cheap steel? Give me a break. What kind of nonsense is that? I understand Chrysler has had quality issues in the past but completely made up bullcrap like that is just stupid.

Well, that's what the other boys in his homeroom called it....cheap steel.

 

[craiggloyd]

I am not a metallurgy specialist so I don't know all the technical terms. I'm sure there is high strength (more expensive) steel that makes up the pillars and the door bars. The Charger (Challenger hasn't done that test?) does really well with the IIHS roof crush ratings at 21,762 pounds in order to push the corner of the roof down 5 inches.
But in the body of the car they could have used more high strength steel versus more low strength steel to lower weight.
It is a very heavy car. A Subaru Outback V6 weighs 3,648 pounds, a fully loaded 2014 Accord non-hybrid V6 weighs 3,559 pounds, lightest weight 4 cylinder version is only 3,254 pounds, the heaviest plug-in hybrid weighs 3,799 pounds
The 2014 V6 Charger weighs 3,961 pounds , Challenger weighs 3,834 pounds for the lightest weight V6.
It's heavy and it's not exactly a huge car. It's got to be because it uses a lot of heavy not-so-strong steel in the chassis.
If I had the money I'd like the close to the performance of a V6 Challenger/Charger in a Volt, buy it used when price is around $20K or less.
Volt is heavy too, needs to lean up a bit too.

 

[nerp]

It sounds like you're just guessing here. The Charger is larger than the accord and outback. It's based on the the Mercedes W210 platform. And these cars were never designed to be light, nor will they be. That's what the forthcoming Barracuda/Reborn Avenger, Dart and 200 are for. All cars have gotten heavier over the last decade due to safety requirements and not every car is priority 1 fuel economy.

 

[Topweasel]

So let me get this right. If you get a car and it's not an SVT/ST, RS, AMG, M, SS, Z, SRT, V-, or V-Tech than you are either A.) Chick or B.) a pussy?

I mean seriously are gear heads still stuck in the stone ages. Now I can understand the older Charger's with 300 more pounds being mocked for having the Magnum engine struggling making less HP and Torque than my mid size that's 800lbs lighter. But quarter miles should almost never be a major point of buying a car unless that is all you do with it.

 

[MagickMan]

I wouldn't buy a Dodge built after `71, but that's just me.

This is the last real Challenger:

 

[BlitzPuppet]

So let me get this right. If you get a car and it's not an SVT/ST, RS, AMG, M, SS, Z, SRT, V-, or V-Tech than you are either A.) Chick or B.) a pussy?

I mean seriously are gear heads still stuck in the stone ages. Now I can understand the older Charger's with 300 more pounds being mocked for having the Magnum engine struggling making less HP and Torque than my mid size that's 800lbs lighter. But quarter miles should almost never be a major point of buying a car unless that is all you do with it.

They're still living in the age where 6 Cyl engines brought 100HP to the table.

Yes, V8s are fun and are very powerful. Are they the end all-be all? No...especially when V6s are bringing the power to the table (In hp at least) that V8s did in the mid-late 90's...with worlds better fuel economy.

Do I want to get an LT1 Trans Am? Yes. Would I use it as a daily driver in a traffic riddled city such as Houston? Hell no, that's just inbred-level retardation.

I'm happy with my V6 with a CVT that can pull a 13 in the 1/4 mile. If that makes me a pussy, whatever.

 

[Midwayman]

They're still living in the age where 6 Cyl engines brought 100HP to the table.

Yes, V8s are fun and are very powerful. Are they the end all-be all? No...especially when V6s are bringing the power to the table (In hp at least) that V8s did in the mid-late 90's...with worlds better fuel economy.

Do I want to get an LT1 Trans Am? Yes. Would I use it as a daily driver in a traffic riddled city such as Houston? Hell no, that's just inbred-level retardation.

I'm happy with my V6 with a CVT that can pull a 13 in the 1/4 mile. If that makes me a pussy, whatever.

Yup. The v6 is bringing more power to the table than the LS1 was rated at in the SS version. The 'pussy' versions are very respectable anymore.

 

[Drako]

I wouldn't buy a Dodge built after `71, but that's just me.

This is the last real Challenger:

What's wrong with a '72?

 

[cbrsurfr]

They're still living in the age where 6 Cyl engines brought 100HP to the table.

Yes, V8s are fun and are very powerful. Are they the end all-be all? No...especially when V6s are bringing the power to the table (In hp at least) that V8s did in the mid-late 90's...with worlds better fuel economy.

Do I want to get an LT1 Trans Am? Yes. Would I use it as a daily driver in a traffic riddled city such as Houston? Hell no, that's just inbred-level retardation.

I'm happy with my V6 with a CVT that can pull a 13 in the 1/4 mile. If that makes me a pussy, whatever.

It's not so much that the V6 is underpowered. It's a problem of weight. The challenger is a huge boat and has the worst 0-60 and 1/4 mile times of all the current "muscle cars". It needs an 8 just to compete with the 6's in lighter cars. Real world people are getting 6.4s 0-60 and ~15s 1/4 in these cars. That's an improvement over the initial (3.5L? v6) that provided 7.5s 0-60 and 16s 1/4 times but still far off from what Ford and Chevy can do with a V6.

Your 13s CVT whatever will blow the doors off this thing as will a V6 Camry and a multitude of other non muscle cars. I beat some douche in one that was trying to show off for his girlfriend in my old GTI.

Take 3-400lbs off this car and dump the 5speed auto and it will be a whole different animal.

 

[LTC8K6]

Yup. The v6 is bringing more power to the table than the LS1 was rated at in the SS version. The 'pussy' versions are very respectable anymore.

Well, the 1998 Camaro SS LS1 was rated for 320hp and 345tq, so actually quite a bit more "power" than a modern V6 Camry or Challenger, and most thought the 320hp number was low, given the performance. It hit 60 in the very low 5's and the 1/4 in about 13.5 seconds at about 106mph, according to Motor Trend. It also had a 6 speed manual.

This was 15 years ago, though.

 

[BlitzPuppet]

It's not so much that the V6 is underpowered. It's a problem of weight. The challenger is a huge boat and has the worst 0-60 and 1/4 mile times of all the current "muscle cars". It needs an 8 just to compete with the 6's in lighter cars. Real world people are getting 6.4s 0-60 and ~15s 1/4 in these cars. That's an improvement over the initial (3.5L? v6) that provided 7.5s 0-60 and 16s 1/4 times but still far off from what Ford and Chevy can do with a V6.

Your 13s CVT whatever will blow the doors off this thing as will a V6 Camry and a multitude of other non muscle cars. I beat some douche in one that was trying to show off for his girlfriend in my old GTI.

Take 3-400lbs off this car and dump the 5speed auto and it will be a whole different animal.

Long story short:

It's an anemic elephant

 

[Topweasel]

It's not so much that the V6 is underpowered. It's a problem of weight. The challenger is a huge boat and has the worst 0-60 and 1/4 mile times of all the current "muscle cars". It needs an 8 just to compete with the 6's in lighter cars. Real world people are getting 6.4s 0-60 and ~15s 1/4 in these cars. That's an improvement over the initial (3.5L? v6) that provided 7.5s 0-60 and 16s 1/4 times but still far off from what Ford and Chevy can do with a V6.

Your 13s CVT whatever will blow the doors off this thing as will a V6 Camry and a multitude of other non muscle cars. I beat some douche in one that was trying to show off for his girlfriend in my old GTI.

Take 3-400lbs off this car and dump the 5speed auto and it will be a whole different animal.

But even then listen to the numbers. 6-7 second 0-60. That's plenty to have fun with a car and not to feel held back. Sure would a Challenger with a V6 at a higher output be nice in a performance comparison with it's brethren? Yeah. But honestly with those numbers when you really think about it is more than enough to put it pretty low in the list of things to look for in the car, unless you specifically are trying to race it against Camaro's and Mustangs.

Not carrying about what other people are driving and whether they can "blow you away" shouldn't make you a pussy and whether it can pull away from V6 Camaro shouldn't be a buying decision. Or at least not very high in the list.

 

[MagickMan]

What's wrong with a '72?

No RT in `72, no Hemi, and that's when EPA pressure started to really put the brakes on power, meaning the most powerful engine offered was a 340 with only 240bhp. That was officially the end of classic Mopar muscle.

 

[TopCat502]

love the passion this category of car generates I hope they stick around a long time

Fact about v6 Challengers: only recently have they sold more v6 versions than v8; 25% in 2009 43% in 2010 47% in 2011 52% in 2012

Each year they sell a bigger % of V6 cars

I'm guessing people who buy this category of car in V6 flavor do so because of "value" considerations (i.e. lower initial cost, lower insurance, lower gas cost, etc)

If you're drawn to this class of car then I think the desire for performance or the appearance of performance is definitely a major factor in the purchase decision. So, I think V6 buyers would love to have the V8 if cost of ownership was close to equal

 

[QueBert]

Lots of hoopla about muscle cars and v8's and how v6's suck. My Sky Redline is an i4 that's had a few performance tunes done on it since I've bought it. 0-60 is about 4.7 for me, I don't get that uber throaty growl like a Shelby Cobra, but you don't need a v8 to have a muscle car. My i4 with $400 in upgrades could beat a lot of v8 muscle cars in a race. I know it being a small 2 seater with a turbo has a lot do to with it and a Challenger is way bigger and heavier than my car. But not every car needs to have a v8 to be true muscle car.

 

[LTC8K6]

But then we get to add forced induction and/or tuning to our 6's and 8's and you are behind us again...

 

[QueBert]

But then we get to add forced induction and/or tuning to our 6's and 8's and you are behind us again...

As they should, but for a 4 cylinder they can still be competitive with big muscle cars. And with around $1.5k of upgrades can hit mid 12 1/4's which imho is pretty impressive.

 

[LTC8K6]

A 2013 Mustang GT does 60 in 4.5 and the 1/4 in 13 flat...with a relatively small V8.
If we go with a Laguna Seca variant, we have 4.2 and 12.7...

Top speeds are touching 150 with the governor stopping the fun...

And we haven't modded them yet...

Turbos are for fuel economy now, not speed. :biggrin: