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Some 20 year old chick gets shot in the head, accidentally, in a church

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JSt0rm said:
Right but s a human being we are more prone to mistakes then say god would be. If the vice president can shoot somebody in the face it can happen to all of us.
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Negligence, not mistake...and the same can be said for other "negligent" causes of death like driving and texting or changing the radio station etc...let's just stop driving since someone sometime is going to hurt somebody else
 
JSt0rm said:
Right but s a human being we are more prone to mistakes then say god would be. If the vice president can shoot somebody in the face it can happen to all of us.
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That's not setting the bar very high. I can guarantee this instant that, in a stress-free environment and in completely control of my faculties, (as these people apparently were) I would never make such a mistake. Mainly because I'm well aware that it can result in death, tends to be a very strong motivator.
 
corwin said:
Negligence, not mistake...and the same can be said for other "negligent" causes of death like driving and texting ro changing the radio station etc...let's just stop driving
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i'm not argueing that we should stop anything. I'm just saying as a society we need to accept some level of accidental deaths with the number of firearms we have in distribution.
 
irishScott said:
That's not setting the bar very high. I can guarantee this instant that, in a stress-free environment and in completely control of my faculties, (as these people apparently were) I would never make such a mistake. Mainly because I'm well aware that it can result in death, tends to be a very strong motivator.
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But you could. i mean you could accidentally grab the gun wrong and have forgotten your safety. It is not IMPOSSIBLE.

I think charges should be filed in every one of these cases though. involuntary manslaughter is a valid charge.
 
JSt0rm said:
i'm not argueing that we should stop anything. I'm just saying as a society we need to accept some level of accidental deaths with the number of firearms we have in distribution.
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In a sad way I suppose there's some truth to that, though the same can be said for many many other things as well, humans are and always will be fallible, though better education has made an impact and should continue to do so
 
irishScott said:
Well there is no national data I can think of, but the government of Texas keeps track of its permit holders and their convictions.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/demographics.htm
http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/convrates.htm

The number of permits issued in 2001 was 53,403. The number of permits issued in 2010 was 323,325. Criminal convictions of CCW holders in 2001 was 99. In 2009, 101. You can examine the rest of the data as you wish.
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Well, in all fairness, there are no charges being filed against the guy who accidentally shot that young woman in church so criminal convictions != accidents.
 
corwin said:
Well best I can find on short notice but here ya go...it's ten years old but the trend is unmistakable, they are citing numbers from the National Safety Council but I can't seem to find any of their newer data

http://www.saami.org/specifications...of_Success_in_Reducing_Firearms_Accidents.pdf

And here's an interesting one from them too...it's a chart so shouldn't be too hard to understand...two figures should stand out, one for "assault by firearm" and one for "firearm discharge"...pretty easy to figure out which one is accidental and which one isn't...
http://www.nsc.org/NSC Picture Library/News/web_graphics/Injury_Facts_37.pdf
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I stand corrected.

I still don't think that people by and large need to go around armed all the time though.
 
JulesMaximus said:
Well, in all fairness, there are no charges being filed against the guy who accidentally shot that young woman in church so criminal convictions != accidents.
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No charges yet, that is always subject to change, and I hope it does change...and in any case I have no doubt he will have his license revoked immediately
JulesMaximus said:
I stand corrected.

I still don't think that people by and large need to go around armed all the time though.
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When the criminals stop I will as well, until then...
 
JulesMaximus said:
I stand corrected.

I still don't think that people by and large need to go around armed all the time though.
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Just that one time you need it. Not being a smart ass, just a fact.

<---Major 2nd amendment proponent however, I would like to see some more safety training. Our test was an 8hr class and really a joke for training purposes even though the instructor was knowledgeable and qualified. GA has no class time at all.😱 After our recent criminal activities, the locals are arming to the teeth and signing up for classes. Spoke with my instructor this a.m. and he's booked through May.
 
JSt0rm said:
But you could. i mean you could accidentally grab the gun wrong and have forgotten your safety. It is not IMPOSSIBLE.

I think charges should be filed in every one of these cases though. involuntary manslaughter is a valid charge.
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Alright, from a purely binary logical approach no I can't guarantee it. But I can say the odds would be astronomically in my favor given how I handle my guns.
 
CountZero said:
Are there studies with actually statistics on the number of lives saved by legal concealed carry?

I've never seen any. But it would be interesting to see how many lives are saved on average each year by legal carry and to see it side by side with number of deaths because of legal carry. I'm sure it would be more lives saved than lost but I'd also bet it is a very small number for both.
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I've seen such data requested before, but really, how would you count the number of lives saved by CC? If a criminal with a gun is stopped in the act of committing a crime with a weapon/intent to harm/kill, how would you ever know if he did harm/kill anyone, or put any number to it? Who's to say a CCer stops a criminal with a loaded weapon that would have never used it vs a criminal that planned on going on a multi-day killing spree following this event? These statistics simply aren't obtainable.
 
TheVrolok said:
I've seen such data requested before, but really, how would you count the number of lives saved by CC? If a criminal with a gun is stopped in the act of committing a crime with a weapon/intent to harm/kill, how would you ever know if he did harm/kill anyone, or put any number to it? Who's to say a CCer stops a criminal with a loaded weapon that would have never used it vs a criminal that planned on going on a multi-day killing spree following this event? These statistics simply aren't obtainable.
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A more specific example would be the CC holder who stops an armed robbery in a store. Did he save the lives of everyone in the store? Just the clerk being held at gunpoint? The criminal himself who might have been shot by the cops?
 
spidey07 said:
A gun doesn't "accidentally go off", somebody has to pull the trigger. Dummy probably disobeyed all 4 rules. You NEVER hand somebody a loaded weapon. You clear, check, clear, check then hand it to them. Then they clear, check, clear, check again - every firearm is always loaded.

"showing safety features" is always a terrible idea. "look, it won't fire even if I pull the trigger" BAM.
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This. Always treat a firearm as if it were loaded. We really should be teaching firearm safety in schools...
 
irishScott said:
A more specific example would be the CC holder who stops an armed robbery in a store. Did he save the lives of everyone in the store? Just the clerk being held at gunpoint? The criminal himself who might have been shot by the cops?
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This.

...and what about all the people who never attempt a violent crime *only* because they're afraid of encountering a victim with a CCW?
 
highland145 said:
Just that one time you need it. Not being a smart ass, just a fact.

<---Major 2nd amendment proponent however, I would like to see some more safety training. Our test was an 8hr class and really a joke for training purposes even though the instructor was knowledgeable and qualified. GA has no class time at all.😱 After our recent criminal activities, the locals are arming to the teeth and signing up for classes. Spoke with my instructor this a.m. and he's booked through May.
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Moot point. I can't carry legally here.

I have guns to defend my home or if the shit hits the fan and society breaks down like it did in 1994 during the L.A. riots (where I lived at the time). I just resigned myself to relying on my instinct for avoiding trouble in the first place... it's all I can do.
 
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Seems it's common sense. Always treat a gun like it's loaded. If you are sure (or you think you are sure) it's unloaded and want to pull the trigger, at very least, point it towards somewhere that would not harm anyone if it fired, such out the window in the sky. But really you should not even be pulling a trigger indoors period unless it's like a shooting range or something.
 
Red Squirrel said:
Seems it's common sense. Always treat a gun like it's loaded. If you are sure (or you think you are sure) it's unloaded and want to pull the trigger, at very least, point it towards somewhere that would not harm anyone if it fired, such out the window in the sky. But really you should not even be pulling a trigger indoors period unless it's like a shooting range or something.
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yea firearm safety 101 fail😛
 
lol yeah I thought it was kinda funny that someone would bring a gun in church. I wonder if they make Bible cases with a gun pouch, could be convenient. LOL
 
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