Somalia Pirates strike again

[Jaskalas]

This might be something the UN is capable of handling, no?

 

[Rebel44]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
This might be something the UN is capable of handling, no?

UN is too incompetent to handle anything.

Nuke Somalia (pirates) and Nigeria (spammers)

 

[racolvin]

This would be easily solvable (plz note, yes I know that's hyperbole). Just equip the tankers with helipads and a few hundred gallons of fuel for the choppers. As the ships go through the gulf of Aden, a Blackhawk or two will leapfrog from ship to ship, riding the helipads. If a pirate boat gets near, it takes off, lobs a few missiles into it or peppers it with depleted uranium rounds. The pirates will think twice before venturing out there again

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: racolvin
This would be easily solvable (plz note, yes I know that's hyperbole). Just equip the tankers with helipads and a few hundred gallons of fuel for the choppers. As the ships go through the gulf of Aden, a Blackhawk or two will leapfrog from ship to ship, riding the helipads. If a pirate boat gets near, it takes off, lobs a few missiles into it or peppers it with depleted uranium rounds. The pirates will think twice before venturing out there again

Merchant ships can't be armed.

Originally posted by: freegeeks
only the French deal with this situation in a correct way, every time a French ship or crew was involved, they killed or captured the mother f*cking pirates

Yeah, except the last time the French tried that, it was kind of a disaster.

 

[StageLeft]

Nuke all of Somalia. Problem solved.

 

[racolvin]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: racolvin
This would be easily solvable (plz note, yes I know that's hyperbole). Just equip the tankers with helipads and a few hundred gallons of fuel for the choppers. As the ships go through the gulf of Aden, a Blackhawk or two will leapfrog from ship to ship, riding the helipads. If a pirate boat gets near, it takes off, lobs a few missiles into it or peppers it with depleted uranium rounds. The pirates will think twice before venturing out there again

Merchant ships can't be armed.

I wouldn't be arming the merchant ship. I'd be parking an armed helicopter on said ship. Big difference, since the ship would never go into port with the chopper on-board

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: racolvin

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: racolvin
This would be easily solvable (plz note, yes I know that's hyperbole). Just equip the tankers with helipads and a few hundred gallons of fuel for the choppers. As the ships go through the gulf of Aden, a Blackhawk or two will leapfrog from ship to ship, riding the helipads. If a pirate boat gets near, it takes off, lobs a few missiles into it or peppers it with depleted uranium rounds. The pirates will think twice before venturing out there again

Merchant ships can't be armed.

I wouldn't be arming the merchant ship. I'd be parking an armed helicopter on said ship. Big difference, since the ship would never go into port with the chopper on-board

Actually, that really isn't a bad idea, but I presume it's relatively expensive to do.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: racolvin

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: racolvin
This would be easily solvable (plz note, yes I know that's hyperbole). Just equip the tankers with helipads and a few hundred gallons of fuel for the choppers. As the ships go through the gulf of Aden, a Blackhawk or two will leapfrog from ship to ship, riding the helipads. If a pirate boat gets near, it takes off, lobs a few missiles into it or peppers it with depleted uranium rounds. The pirates will think twice before venturing out there again

Merchant ships can't be armed.

I wouldn't be arming the merchant ship. I'd be parking an armed helicopter on said ship. Big difference, since the ship would never go into port with the chopper on-board

Actually, that really isn't a bad idea, but I presume it's relatively expensive to do.

If you guys knew what it takes for a helicopter to land or take off from a merchant ship you would know this is not as easy as it sounds. Remember these are merchant ships where landing a helicopter is a rare event, not naval ships which are designed to handle such operations.

Also the number of ships that pass through pirate prone areas is far too many for a couple of blackhawks to handle, probably need more than a squadron.

 

[racolvin]

I guess I fall into the ignorant category when it comes to naval operations but how hard can it be to land/liftoff a helicopter on a ship that's the size of an aircraft carrier?

As far as protecting all the ships, you're quite right but the high value targets? Oh, say an oil supertanker? I don't see the problem ...

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Nuke all of Somalia. Problem solved.

Just stop sending food over there, the problem will work itself out in a year or so.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: racolvin
I guess I fall into the ignorant category when it comes to naval operations but how hard can it be to land/liftoff a helicopter on a ship that's the size of an aircraft carrier?

As far as protecting all the ships, you're quite right but the high value targets? Oh, say an oil supertanker? I don't see the problem ...

It really can't be that difficult for a good heli pilot, particularly if the heli is small. I know they have one on that whackjob sea shepard boat.

Anyway, really what we need is somebody to design a fleet of UAVs with rockets on them. Basically, any larger carrier would have a few of these airborne at any one time all armed with enough ordance to sink one of these pirate boats. The UAVs could monitor for unusual activity and also drop bombs. A mini predator drone for everyone! Ebay for $130k Buy-it-now. Free shipping!

 

[Rebel44]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: racolvin
I guess I fall into the ignorant category when it comes to naval operations but how hard can it be to land/liftoff a helicopter on a ship that's the size of an aircraft carrier?

As far as protecting all the ships, you're quite right but the high value targets? Oh, say an oil supertanker? I don't see the problem ...

It really can't be that difficult for a good heli pilot, particularly if the heli is small. I know they have one on that whackjob sea shepard boat.

Anyway, really what we need is somebody to design a fleet of UAVs with rockets on them. Basically, any larger carrier would have a few of these airborne at any one time all armed with enough ordance to sink one of these pirate boats. The UAVs could monitor for unusual activity and also drop bombs. A mini predator drone for everyone! Ebay for $130k Buy-it-now. Free shipping!

This

Originally posted by: ayabe
Just stop sending food over there, the problem will work itself out in a year or so.

Also good idea.

 

[racolvin]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Anyway, really what we need is somebody to design a fleet of UAVs with rockets on them. Basically, any larger carrier would have a few of these airborne at any one time all armed with enough ordance to sink one of these pirate boats. The UAVs could monitor for unusual activity and also drop bombs. A mini predator drone for everyone! Ebay for $130k Buy-it-now. Free shipping!

Now that's an interesting thought ...

If a warship were anywhere near (lets assume a US/NATO ship for now) that was equipped with laser-guided missiles, we could have a very interesting situation. The missiles would need to be small, say something like the LAHAT missile sized, but probably with a bit more range. It could be launched from a UAV or from a nearby ship but the key is that the merchant ship would only need a laser target painter/designator.

So as the pirate boat is approaching, the merchant ship radio's the situation, their position, and whether or not they have the pirate ship "painted". All the UAV has to do is visually verify (onboard camera) and launch the missile, which nails the laser designated pirate boat.

Hmmm ... some details to work out but that'd be even better than helicopters I think ...

 

[Genx87]

Elsewhere, pirates anchored a hijacked Saudi supertanker loaded with $100 million in crude oil off the Somali coast on Tuesday, causing residents in impoverished fishing villages to gawk in amazement at the size of the 1,080 foot (329 meter) tanker.

Reminds me of EVE Online

btw I dont know why anybody drives a ship within 1000 miles of that place or doesnt hire a security firm to deal with these people.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Originally posted by: racolvin
I guess I fall into the ignorant category when it comes to naval operations but how hard can it be to land/liftoff a helicopter on a ship that's the size of an aircraft carrier?

As far as protecting all the ships, you're quite right but the high value targets? Oh, say an oil supertanker? I don't see the problem ...

a helo needs a certain amount of clearance / landing pad.

those crude carriers have a massive network of piping along the deck.

The superstructure/bridge does not have room for a helo.

Special landing pads would have to be fabricated to support the helo and ouit of the way of the main deck operations.

 

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: Mizugori
it's really quite simple, its a saudi ship. do you really wonder why we aren't doing anything about it? If that was a UK, Korean, Japanese, Israeli, or other us-friendly country's ship, we would be going in guns blazing....

don't get me wrong im not condoning the lack of action but it's painfully obvious why nothing is being done by us

Wouldn't surprise me if Bush tried to set up a pay for an US Navy escort service. Tell other countries to meet at a certain location and several US Navy warships will escort your convoy to safety for a fee.

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: racolvin
This would be easily solvable (plz note, yes I know that's hyperbole). Just equip the tankers with helipads and a few hundred gallons of fuel for the choppers. As the ships go through the gulf of Aden, a Blackhawk or two will leapfrog from ship to ship, riding the helipads. If a pirate boat gets near, it takes off, lobs a few missiles into it or peppers it with depleted uranium rounds. The pirates will think twice before venturing out there again

Merchant ships can't be armed.

Laws can be changed.

 

[StageLeft]

Is there any truth to the rumor that Saudi had rigged this, and all their tankers up with explosives already and were basically giving the pirates an ultimatum to get off by the end of Wednesday or they were going to blow the whole thing as a warning?

Or, is the above something I just made up?

 

[freegeeks]

Originally posted by: BeauJangles

Originally posted by: racolvin
This would be easily solvable (plz note, yes I know that's hyperbole). Just equip the tankers with helipads and a few hundred gallons of fuel for the choppers. As the ships go through the gulf of Aden, a Blackhawk or two will leapfrog from ship to ship, riding the helipads. If a pirate boat gets near, it takes off, lobs a few missiles into it or peppers it with depleted uranium rounds. The pirates will think twice before venturing out there again

Merchant ships can't be armed.

Originally posted by: freegeeks
only the French deal with this situation in a correct way, every time a French ship or crew was involved, they killed or captured the mother f*cking pirates

Yeah, except the last time the French tried that, it was kind of a disaster.

explain?

France has intervened 3 times in the last 8 months

the hostages on the luxury yacht last April. All hostages unharmed, pirates captured and possibly killed, part of ransom money recovered.

eight or nine pirates captured last October

French commandos free tourists last September


Which of these was not successful?

 

[fallout man]

Screw the little boats. Navies should seek out and board/sink the motherships the pirates use as launch points.

Now, that would be beheading a hydra.

Fuck 'em. Sink their big boats, and see how far off the coast they can get in their dinghies.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: racolvin
I guess I fall into the ignorant category when it comes to naval operations but how hard can it be to land/liftoff a helicopter on a ship that's the size of an aircraft carrier?

As far as protecting all the ships, you're quite right but the high value targets? Oh, say an oil supertanker? I don't see the problem ...

It really can't be that difficult for a good heli pilot, particularly if the heli is small. I know they have one on that whackjob sea shepard boat.

Anyway, really what we need is somebody to design a fleet of UAVs with rockets on them. Basically, any larger carrier would have a few of these airborne at any one time all armed with enough ordance to sink one of these pirate boats. The UAVs could monitor for unusual activity and also drop bombs. A mini predator drone for everyone! Ebay for $130k Buy-it-now. Free shipping!

As Common Courtesy posted helicopters need clear space to approach and land on a ship. Many ships do not have that much clearing available on deck, even large ships.

For helicopter operations the ship has to steer in a certain direction depending upon the helicopters approach and the prevailing wind & swell direction. A lot of piracy happens in confined waters where ships have to follow a certain course and may not be able to deviate from their course at any given time.

Also the ship has to slow down to maneuvering speeds which requires the engine room to be manned. Explanation: once away from port ships build up to 'sea speed' for the voyage, i.e. the engines rpm is increased to approx 85% MCR. This takes anywhere from 20 mins to 1 hour. When a ship approaches port the engines have to be slowly brought down to maneuvering rpms which takes a similar amount of time.

When a merchant ship is involved in helicopter operations it requires most of the crew to be on 'stations' which includes fire fighting gear pulled out and ready, some crew wearing fire proximity suits and breathing apparatus (like firefighters), manning foam guns (on tankers) etc. There is always the risk of fire from static, helicopter exhaust and/or helicopter crashing. Also remember large ships are generally tankers and crude is one of the most volatile oil cargoes to carry. You don't want any risk of sparks due to the presence of oil vapors which are vented off the cargo tanks to prevent overpressure. The biggest single danger to any ship is fire.

Unlike naval ships, merchant ships do not have 3 people for every task. The total complement of the Sirius Star is 25 people. (I have sailed on slightly smaller tankers which typically carried a total of 20-22 crew). There just aren't enough people on board for regular helicopter operations on an average merchant ship. Like I posted earlier these are rare occurrences, usually for medical emergencies or to board harbor pilots in certain isolated ports.

Bottom line, helicopter operations on a ship are not a simple task. So the idea of having blackhawks moving from ship to ship will not work.

UAV's on board merchant ships (or even used in the proximity of tankers) are equally impractical due to the fire hazard.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
This might be something the UN is capable of handling, no?

Actually the UN, through it's maritime agency IMO has been very successful in reducing piracy in Malacca Straits, which is probably the region with the highest number of incidents. Somalia is relatively new to the piracy game and is high profile but with few incidents. Malacca Straits has been a problem for 25 - 30 years with a very high incident rate, which has slowly declined and (fortunately) with rare bad outcomes.

 

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Some Somalian pirates are not as smart though...

When it demanded the vessel stop for investigation, the pirate ship responded by threatening to "blow up the naval warship if it closed on her", the statement said.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Rare success against pirates: Indian navy sinks suspected pirate 'mother ship'

Indian navy sinks suspected pirate 'mother ship'

By SAM DOLNICK ? 2 hours ago

NEW DELHI (AP) ? The Indian navy sank a suspected pirate "mother ship" and chased two attack boats into the night, officials said Wednesday, as the owners of a seized Saudi oil supertanker negotiated for the release of their vessel and its $100 million cargo.

A multinational naval force has increased patrols in the waters between the Arabian Peninsula and the Horn of Africa, where pirates have grown bolder and more violent ? most recently seizing Thai and Iranian ships.

The force scored a rare success Tuesday when the Indian warship, operating off the coast of Oman, stopped a ship similar to a pirate vessel described in numerous bulletins. The Indian navy said the pirates in the Gulf of Aden fired on the INS Tabar after the officers asked to search it.

"Pirates were seen roaming on the upper deck of this vessel with guns and rocket propelled grenade launchers," said a statement from the Indian navy. Indian forces fired back, sparking fires and a series of onboard blasts ? possibly due to exploding ammunition ? and destroying the ship.

They chased one of two speedboats shadowing the larger ship. One was later found abandoned. The other escaped, according to the statement.

Larger "mother ships" are often used to take gangs of pirates and smaller attack boats into deep water, and can be used as mobile bases to attack merchant vessels.

Last week, Indian navy commandos operating from a warship foiled a pirate attempt to hijack a ship in the Gulf of Aden. The navy said an armed helicopter with marine commandos prevented the pirates from boarding and hijacking the Indian merchant vessel.

Separate bands of pirates also seized a Thai ship with 16 crew members and an Iranian cargo vessel with a crew of 25 in the Gulf of Aden, where Somalia-based pirates appear to be attacking ships at will, said Noel Choong of the International Maritime Bureau's piracy reporting center in Malaysia.

"It's getting out of control," Choong said.

Tuesday hijackings raised to eight the number of ships hijacked this week alone, he said. Since the beginning of the year, 39 ships have been hijacked in the Gulf of Aden, out of 95 attacked.

"The criminal activities are flourishing because the risks are low and the rewards are extremely high," Choong said.

The pirates used to mainly roam the waters off the Somali coast, but now they have spread in every direction and are targeting ships farther at sea, according to Choong.

He said 17 vessels remain in the hands of pirates along with more than 300 crew members, including a Ukrainian ship loaded with weapons and the Saudi supertanker carrying $100 million in crude.

The supertanker, the MV Sirius Star, was anchored Tuesday close to Harardhere, the main pirates' den on the Somali coast, with a full load of 2 million barrels of oil and 25 crew members.

Asked about reports that a ransom had been demanded, Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal said Wednesday that the owners of the tanker "are negotiating on the issue." He did not elaborate.

"We do not like to negotiate with either terrorists or hijackers," he said, speaking in Rome after talks with his Italian counterpart. But, Saud added, "the owners of the tanker are the final arbiters of what happens there."

Saudi Arabia, the world's leading oil producer, has condemned the hijacking and said it will join the international fight against piracy.

Despite the stepped-up patrols, the attacks have continued unabated off Somalia, which is caught up in an Islamic insurgency and has had no functioning government since 1991. Pirates have generally released ships they have seized after ransoms are paid.

NATO has three warships in the Gulf of Aden and the U.S. Navy's Bahrain-based 5th Fleet also has ships in the region.

But U.S. Navy Commander Jane Campbell of the 5th Fleet said naval patrols simply cannot prevent attacks given the vastness of the sea and the 21,000 vessels passing through the Gulf of Aden every year.

"Given the size of the area and given the fact that we do not have naval assets ? either ships or airplanes ? to be everywhere with every single ship" it would be virtually impossible to prevent every attack, she said.

The Gulf of Aden connects to the Red Sea, which in turn is linked to the Mediterranean by the Suez Canal. The route is thousands of miles and many days shorter than going around the Cape of Good Hope off the southern tip of Africa.

The Thai boat, which was flying a flag from the tiny Pacific nation of Kiribati but operated out of Thailand, made a distress call as it was being chased by pirates in two speedboats but the phone connection was cut off midway.

Wicharn Sirichaiekawat, manager of Sirichai Fisheries Co., Ltd. told The Associated Press that the ship, the "Ekawat Nava 5," was headed from Oman to Yemen to deliver fishing equipment.

"We have not heard from them since so we don't know what the demands are," Wicharn said. "We have informed the families of the crew but right now, we don't have much more information to give them either."

Later in the day, Thai Foreign Ministry deputy spokesman Voradet Veeravekin told The Associated Press that Thai officials in Kenya were trying to make contact with the vessel.

"Based on previous cases, we believe they were held for ransom. We are optimistic that we will be able to negotiate for their release once we can contact the ship," he said.

On Tuesday, a major Norwegian shipping group, Odfjell SE, ordered its more than 90 tankers to sail around Africa rather than use the Suez Canal after the seizure of the Saudi tanker Saturday.

"We will no longer expose our crew to the risk of being hijacked and held for ransom by pirates in the Gulf of Aden," said Terje Storeng, Odfjell's president and chief executive.

 

[StageLeft]

Just when you thought the pirates couldn't pwn themsevles any harder by firing on British marines recently, they fire on an Indian warship. I wonder if they were drunk or on drugs at the time.