<< The design of plants here in America is much different and would make a Chernobyl like accident almost impossible. >>
No danger from a hydrogen bubble blasting the containment dome away?
<< The design of plants here in America is much different and would make a Chernobyl like accident almost impossible. >>
No danger from a hydrogen bubble blasting the containment dome away?
<< argh Argh ARGHH ARGHHHH!!! Stop this insanity. This is exactly what I am talking about, generating hydrogen on the fly? For a forensic chemist, maybe you should do some work on conservation of energy and stoichiometry. the amount of energy required to generate H2 from H2O would be equal to the amount of energy released when H2 reacts to form H2O so, not including any losses, you would be breakeven. Why not just use the bloody electricity to power the car. The whole point of H2 is that you can generate electricity with something like nuclear or solar energy and then USE the energy in a car where a portable nuclear power plan is not possible. >>
Well, you might be able to do sort of a hybrid concept, similar to the gas/electric hybrids, but using hydrogen instead of batteries. Till you deal with all the losses, and storage issues, I doubt it would be very interesting.
Why don't we just drill in the ground for naturally occuring fossil fuels that we can burn to create energy to power cars? I know it sounds crazy, but it just might work! 
As long as we are talking about how to get the energy to make the hydrogen, one of the things we might consider is a Solar Power Satellite. This was originally proposed in the 70s and a great deal of work was done on the technical side as well as the economics. At one point it became clear that electric utilities would be willing to pony up the money if they could pay it off in a reasonable time.
The Space Studies Institute did a number of privately funded studies on this and found it would be feasible. Check here for a brief overview, and here for a description of the mind set that can't envision something different than earth based everything.
More research has been done recently, check here, and though the technical challenges have not been completely solved, like hydrogen for cars, they are on the way.
If we have to "think out of the box" (that overused and often under-meant phrase) to solve big problems, then this should be considered.
The Space Studies Institute did a number of privately funded studies on this and found it would be feasible. Check here for a brief overview, and here for a description of the mind set that can't envision something different than earth based everything.
More research has been done recently, check here, and though the technical challenges have not been completely solved, like hydrogen for cars, they are on the way.
If we have to "think out of the box" (that overused and often under-meant phrase) to solve big problems, then this should be considered.
Is it possible to distill water (so it becomes pure H2O), store it in a car, burn ethanol to create the electricity needed for the electrolysis to refine the hydrogen needed to power the car?
On second thought, the ethanol could just run the car itself. Well, you can get ethanol from corn, so oh well.
On third thought, I don't know if you can electrolyze 100% H2O.
On second thought, the ethanol could just run the car itself. Well, you can get ethanol from corn, so oh well.
On third thought, I don't know if you can electrolyze 100% H2O.
Okay this may sound retarded, I don't get how it would work but yesterday I was bored at school and found a popular science. And it had a bunch of coool new products in it. And one of them was a car... well pickup truck.. and the caption said something aobut the problem wiht hydrogen cars is theres no gas station that has h2... so this car takes hydrogen off normal gas and burns it. It gets 50% better fuel economy than just burning the gas itself.
How can you take hydrogen outa gas? What would be left over?
I'm bout 90% sure I read the caption right, I wasn't that intrested while reading it until later on when I thought about it so I didn't reread it or look closer or anything.
How can you take hydrogen outa gas? What would be left over?
I'm bout 90% sure I read the caption right, I wasn't that intrested while reading it until later on when I thought about it so I didn't reread it or look closer or anything.
That's strange... You get more energy from less mass?
Hmm. If they meant how much of the fuel could be converted to usable energy I could understand, but the way you worded it, it seemed like the car went further with only the hydrogen, than with the whole liquid.
Assuming the gasoline is straight C8H18 (though realistically it's got a whole bunch of stuff mixed with it) there are some possibilities like:
C8H18 = C8 + H18
or
C8H18 + (8)O2 = (8)CO2 + (9)H2
Hmm. If they meant how much of the fuel could be converted to usable energy I could understand, but the way you worded it, it seemed like the car went further with only the hydrogen, than with the whole liquid.
Assuming the gasoline is straight C8H18 (though realistically it's got a whole bunch of stuff mixed with it) there are some possibilities like:
C8H18 = C8 + H18
or
C8H18 + (8)O2 = (8)CO2 + (9)H2
I dont see how removing the H2 from Oil will help, you would just get a lump of coal sitting at the bottom of your tank.
Sta4rcutter's links to 3 tax funded activities and their PR blurbs provided me with the following confirmations:
1. Hydrogen is "hot" in the news.
2. Transportable, practical energy sources such as are required for automobiles and aircraft, if hydrogen is the cheap and abundant intermediate, will not be produced in the foreseeable future by anything other than nuclear power.
3. That the offering of such "news" to the public, is an accurate measure of the average reader's ignorance and gullibility. It may be asking too much of the general population to have a reasonable handle on economics, if not engineering. People really do have more important things to concern themselves with, shopping, relationships, bowling, concerts, jobs. You know, life.
Re: pond scum ( oxygen free algae to make hydrogen from sunlight)
<< Researchers believe this efficiency can be increased at least 100-fold, but that has yet to be demonstrated. Algae growing in a small pond, he said, may eventually be enough to power 10 cars, although Melis admitted, ?I'm not saying how big the pond would have to be." >>
A 100 fold? If someone works hard in his little back yard and grows 500 pounds of potatoes, would 50,000 pounds be a reasonable expectation from the same yard? No. This would be magical thinking.
The picture showing an ordinary pond is itself a fraud. Remember, it's oxygen free algae. This means not just a pond, but a giant structure and complex apparatus.
At least some honesty in the last statement about how big the pond. A little smaller than Lake Eire, perhaps?
1. Hydrogen is "hot" in the news.
2. Transportable, practical energy sources such as are required for automobiles and aircraft, if hydrogen is the cheap and abundant intermediate, will not be produced in the foreseeable future by anything other than nuclear power.
3. That the offering of such "news" to the public, is an accurate measure of the average reader's ignorance and gullibility. It may be asking too much of the general population to have a reasonable handle on economics, if not engineering. People really do have more important things to concern themselves with, shopping, relationships, bowling, concerts, jobs. You know, life.
Re: pond scum ( oxygen free algae to make hydrogen from sunlight)
<< Researchers believe this efficiency can be increased at least 100-fold, but that has yet to be demonstrated. Algae growing in a small pond, he said, may eventually be enough to power 10 cars, although Melis admitted, ?I'm not saying how big the pond would have to be." >>
A 100 fold? If someone works hard in his little back yard and grows 500 pounds of potatoes, would 50,000 pounds be a reasonable expectation from the same yard? No. This would be magical thinking.
The picture showing an ordinary pond is itself a fraud. Remember, it's oxygen free algae. This means not just a pond, but a giant structure and complex apparatus.
At least some honesty in the last statement about how big the pond. A little smaller than Lake Eire, perhaps?
Sta4rcutter's links to 3 tax funded activities and their PR blurbs provided me with the following confirmations:
1. Hydrogen is "hot" in the news.
2. Transportable, practical energy sources such as are required for automobiles and aircraft, if hydrogen is the cheap and abundant intermediate, will not be produced in the foreseeable future by anything other than nuclear power.
3. That the offering of such "news" to the public, is an accurate measure of the average reader's ignorance and gullibility. It may be asking too much of the general population to have a reasonable handle on economics, if not engineering. People really do have more important things to concern themselves with, shopping, relationships, bowling, concerts, jobs. You know, life.
Hey, no one ever said it was going to be easy. My links were merely to inform the others to some of the sources of inexpensive and renewable sources of hydrogen. It should be noted that hydrogen "as a fuel source" is still in its infancy. The amount of collegiate research going into this area is gaining significant momentum however. There is a way, and it will be discovered in our lifetimes. Nuclear power (in its current implementation) will not be one of them.
1. Hydrogen is "hot" in the news.
2. Transportable, practical energy sources such as are required for automobiles and aircraft, if hydrogen is the cheap and abundant intermediate, will not be produced in the foreseeable future by anything other than nuclear power.
3. That the offering of such "news" to the public, is an accurate measure of the average reader's ignorance and gullibility. It may be asking too much of the general population to have a reasonable handle on economics, if not engineering. People really do have more important things to concern themselves with, shopping, relationships, bowling, concerts, jobs. You know, life.
Hey, no one ever said it was going to be easy. My links were merely to inform the others to some of the sources of inexpensive and renewable sources of hydrogen. It should be noted that hydrogen "as a fuel source" is still in its infancy. The amount of collegiate research going into this area is gaining significant momentum however. There is a way, and it will be discovered in our lifetimes. Nuclear power (in its current implementation) will not be one of them.
Drakkon
Diamond Member
- Aug 14, 2001
- 8,401
- 1
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Many companies already ahve hydrogen powered cars in prototype/testing mode right now....BMW I know for sure.
Recently at my university a group from some company (chevy i think, could be wrong though) Drove in with about 3 that were doing an across country testing along wiht some old actor dude. They were earily quiet... But the engines looked clean and tanks looked greatly stable. They even had video of impact testing, which of course wasn't too encouraging on a full tank
Recently at my university a group from some company (chevy i think, could be wrong though) Drove in with about 3 that were doing an across country testing along wiht some old actor dude. They were earily quiet... But the engines looked clean and tanks looked greatly stable. They even had video of impact testing, which of course wasn't too encouraging on a full tank
Yeah, I think what they need is some kind of catalyst that will mix with the hydrogen and prevent it from exploding in the event of a ruptured tank. I'm not a chemistry major, but hydrogen is fairly reactive if I remember right so findind something it can "bind" to rather than oxygen seems a viable solution. Kind of like an airbag for the fuel tank. Only this would be an aerosol or powder that would spray into the hydrogen tank should a crash occur.
haha /me brings this back
Popular Science december 2001 page60
""
Fuel Cells Take a Big Step
A major reason you don't drive a fuel cell car already: There's nowhere to get a tankful of hydrogen. This infrastructure problem is not lost on General Motors engineers, who've found a new source: the local filling station. They developed a catalytic device that strips hydrogen from regular gasoline. It's not as efficient as pure hydrogen, but it produces 50 percent better fuel economy. Demonstrated in a prototype Chevy S-10 this year, the advance brings fuel cells one steop closer to the family car. www.gm.com
""
Popular Science december 2001 page60
""
Fuel Cells Take a Big Step
A major reason you don't drive a fuel cell car already: There's nowhere to get a tankful of hydrogen. This infrastructure problem is not lost on General Motors engineers, who've found a new source: the local filling station. They developed a catalytic device that strips hydrogen from regular gasoline. It's not as efficient as pure hydrogen, but it produces 50 percent better fuel economy. Demonstrated in a prototype Chevy S-10 this year, the advance brings fuel cells one steop closer to the family car. www.gm.com
""
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