Solenoid or starter

[mrblotto]

Greetings everyone,

The last couple nights it's been really cold out (like 20's overnight). I would go out to warm up my vehicle and when I turn the key, the starter doesn't engage. I dont hear the 'click'.

The normal lights come on tho (so prolly not battery)

I turn the key off, wait a second, then turn it back on. It starts right up....so I'm like 'hmmmmmmmm'

I'm guessing either solenoid or starter. Whaddya all think? Is one part more 'prone' to wearing out than the other? *shrugs*

'97 Celica 1.8L
265K

Thanx as always! *salute*

 

[the DRIZZLE]

Greetings everyone,

The last couple nights it's been really cold out (like 20's overnight). I would go out to warm up my vehicle and when I turn the key, the starter doesn't engage. I dont hear the 'click'.

The normal lights come on tho (so prolly not battery)

I turn the key off, wait a second, then turn it back on. It starts right up....so I'm like 'hmmmmmmmm'

I'm guessing either solenoid or starter. Whaddya all think? Is one part more 'prone' to wearing out than the other? *shrugs*

'97 Celica 1.8L
265K

Thanx as always! *salute*

If you don't hear anything at all I'm guess it's the solenoid. It's unlikely but it could also be the ignition switch or any wiring in between. If it stops working for good it will be easier to troubleshoot than an intermittent issue.

 

[janas19]

Oh yea, high mileage Celica! Woot woot!

 

[bbs lm-r]

Don't rule out the battery.

 

[mrblotto]

Don't rule out the battery.

D'oh....forgot to mention it was replaced last year. Old one still worked but it was like 7 years old and I figured it was on borrowed time lol

 

[jlee]

Don't rule out the battery.

Doesn't sound like the battery, or it wouldn't start the second time.

I turn the key off, wait a second, then turn it back on. It starts right up....so I'm like 'hmmmmmmmm'

 

[Vetterin]

Wouldn't hurt to check the battery cables for good/tight contact.

 

[mrblotto]

Update:

Went out today to go to work.
-got in the car
-closed the door
-made sure everything was 'off' before I turned the key
-turned the key to the 'on' position and waited for the normal 'seatbelt ding ding ding' to pass
-turned key further - engine turned over....maybe twice....then nothing
-turned key to 'off', waited a couple seconds, then tried again - started right up

I'm beginning to think maybe alternator or battery?

I try to stop by the local auto parts store and see if they can test both the batt/alt

sigh.........

 

[janas19]

So far it seems like it's not much of a problem - basically you have to turn your key twice to start the car - not such a big deal.

Sometimes you just accept your cars little quirks and move on. My car has a bad fast idle valve. Whenever I start it up, it will die if it's really cold. So I have to keep my foot on the throttle for at least 2 minutes before I can even drive it.

I could replace it, I've just been lazy.

 

[natto fire]

When it was cranking did it sound like it was labored at all or was it cranking at fullish speed?

I am starting to think ignition switch, but I am pretty sure you can rule out the alternator, and possibly the battery (definitely recheck connections). If you can get access to a multimeter, you can use is to check resistance between your batt terminal and starter wiring lug. There are more tests you can do with a multimeter to pinpoint your problem, some involve light dismantling so I won't get into them unless you'd like. (Checking continuity between the ignition switch start pin and starter solenoid lead as well as starter, and battery tests, sounds like you got those)

 

[mrblotto]

Update:
Had the alternator and battery tested. Both passed. The connections on the battery were tight and little (if any) corrosion present.

CH,
I wanna say when I turned it the first time it just sounded 'normal speed'. And by multimeter, you mean those little devices with the 2 probes attached? Yeah, I have one. And I'm guessing you can tell I haven't used it very much lol!

 

[DaTT]

Sounds an awful lot like an ignition switch to me.

 

[natto fire]

Update:
Had the alternator and battery tested. Both passed. The connections on the battery were tight and little (if any) corrosion present.

CH,
I wanna say when I turned it the first time it just sounded 'normal speed'. And by multimeter, you mean those little devices with the 2 probes attached? Yeah, I have one. And I'm guessing you can tell I haven't used it very much lol!

Yeah, electrical work on cars is usually the last thing people want to tackle, but it really just involves thinking a different way than normal, and not being overwhelmed by schematics.

I found this diagram labeled for an '04, but I'm sure it applies to your vehicle as well. You basically need to isolate both switches before the starter solenoid to find out which one is giving you trouble. As far as the neutral switch, the leads will be coming from the transmission case, but there will also be one for the reverse switch as well as VSS and other bits. I have seen often this switch is by itself with wires that run to the main harness. Sometimes, though, this switch is incorporated in a way that it is bundled into the main harness, making diagnosis more difficult but still possible.

I had an auto Jeep with a neutral switch problem and I would have to rock the shifter back and forth, or switch from Park to Neutral to get it to start. It was very intermittent but eventually got bad enough that I just bypassed the switch.

Edit: Upon further research, it looks like your switch is integrated into an assembly if you have an automatic, making testing it more of a pain. I would be happy to try to walk you through it, but intermittent electrical problems can be hard to replicate, and it looks like the assembly is well over $100, not to mention throwing parts at it is the most painful way to work on cars.

 

[kornphlake]

If you've got a manual trans it could be the clutch switch needs adjustment or it could be going bad, or maybe you've just gotten lazy and aren't pushing the clutch all the way to the floor.

 

[natto fire]

If you've got a manual trans it could be the clutch switch needs adjustment or it could be going bad, or maybe you've just gotten lazy and aren't pushing the clutch all the way to the floor.

Yeah, forgot to mention you are in luck if you have a manual, clutch switch is easy to isolate, just disconnect the switch and jumper the plug. Even if this works it could still be the ignition switch, (intermittent problems are tougher) so you would have to find a way to make the jumper secure for a couple days to see if you experience the symptom again. Also probably a good idea to still push the clutch before you start even if you electrically don't have to anymore...

 

[DaTT]

If you've got a manual trans it could be the clutch switch needs adjustment or it could be going bad, or maybe you've just gotten lazy and aren't pushing the clutch all the way to the floor.

I am guilty of this sometimes...

 

[mrblotto]

Well, (un)fortunatelly, it's an AT. Of course it started right up this morning.....go figure

I made the mistake of telling the wife, and she's all 'omg take it to the garage NOW'.....sheesh...women! Like it's gonna explode or something

And yeah CH, I agree 'just throwing parts at it', while eventually successful, can get expensive lol. I just replaced the heater resistor on our Jeep....and guess what? The fan STILL does not work sometimes......gah!

As much as I hate to do this, after looking at the Greek schematics (Thank you CH for taking the time to dig them up) and wide array of possible problems, I'm thinking a trip to the garage is in order........as much for my sanity as relieving some of the stress of having 2 vehicles w/problems (not to mention a refrigerator that whines like a hearing test)

Hey, at least the alt and battery are ruled out

Thank you everyone for your most valuable input! :salute:

 

[Railgun]

Sounds an awful lot like an ignition switch to me.

Exactly. If it was a solenoid issue, you should still hear something. Should be a very simple and cheap fix and the first thing to do to troubleshoot this.

Nice name OP...a band I've not heard of for a long time.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

Usually means a dead battery. If not, check the wiring to and from the starter for a loose connection.

 

[natto fire]

Well, (un)fortunatelly, it's an AT. Of course it started right up this morning.....go figure

I made the mistake of telling the wife, and she's all 'omg take it to the garage NOW'.....sheesh...women! Like it's gonna explode or something

And yeah CH, I agree 'just throwing parts at it', while eventually successful, can get expensive lol. I just replaced the heater resistor on our Jeep....and guess what? The fan STILL does not work sometimes......gah!

As much as I hate to do this, after looking at the Greek schematics (Thank you CH for taking the time to dig them up) and wide array of possible problems, I'm thinking a trip to the garage is in order........as much for my sanity as relieving some of the stress of having 2 vehicles w/problems (not to mention a refrigerator that whines like a hearing test)

Hey, at least the alt and battery are ruled out

Thank you everyone for your most valuable input! :salute:

I wouldn't exactly call the possible problems a wide array, now that it is narrowed down, but totally agree it is better than going to a trusted shop over just changing parts yourself. Here is the neutral switch in question (sorry links run scripts, Rockauto uses frames) and the ignition switch. Even with these switches replaced there could still be a wire break or just crud in a connection that is causing the intermittent problem.

I'm assuming you have a shop you trust, but be careful because even shops take the "throw parts" road with electrical problems some times.

 

[jupiter57]

First thing I would do is replace the Starter Relay.
Contacts could be flaky.
Usually$6 - $15 at most parts stores.

 

[natto fire]

First thing I would do is replace the Starter Relay.
Contacts could be flaky.
Usually$6 - $15 at most parts stores.

It is always better to diagnose electrical parts rather than just assume they are bad, I did forget about the relay when I posted other diagnostic methods. Which is funny because if the car was in front of me, I would actually check that before the switches.

I think the OP decided to take the car to a shop, though.