Soldier Mom Refusing to Report to Active Duty

[halik]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

The father needs to quit his job and take care of the kids.

You support him collecting welfare and getting food stamps to do this, right?

Thanks Bush administration, for mismanaging Iraq so badly that honorably discharged moms that already served 4 years are needed to keep the meat grinder fed.

how the fuck... you lefties will blame anything possible on bush, and then bitch when someone tries to place blame on your ever amazing clinton or obama...

Errr how exactly will you spin this into Clinton in anyway? Bush's little war is the reason why all these people (including all reservists and former reservists) are being sent over there. Nothing like fucking up our strategic military position over some neocon wet dream...

 

[piasabird]

When I was in the Army (20 years ago) a single parent, or one of two military parents who are married, could request a dischage. Anyone that refuses to leave with their unit should be placed in the Brig and discharged with a dishonrable discharge. Try finding a job after that. All along she has been taking the military pay so now she has to go to war or go to jail. Take your pick. She knew she might be deployed and she knows that she could have requested a discharge all along. She also knows that she is required to maintain a plan (In Writing) for her children's care in case she was to be deployed.

She knew all of this but she stayed an active member of the military. So dont feel sorry for her. She could probably have requested a discharge any time she wanted to. So now she has to follow through on her military commitment.

I was an Admin Clerk in the Army and I have seen this a few times. However, I was never in a unit where someone refused to deploy. However, I also have never been in a combat zone. It might be they would just give the person an administrative punishment like an Article 15 and then some kind of discharge like other than honorable or possibly a dishonorable discharge.

This person is a coward and a weasel.

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: piasabird
When I was in the Army (20 years ago) a single parent, or one of two military parents who are married, could request a dischage. Anyone that refuses to leave with their unit should be placed in the Brig and discharged with a dishonrable discharge. Try finding a job after that. All along she has been taking the military pay so now she has to go to war or go to jail. Take your pick. She knew she might be deployed and she knows that she could have requested a discharge all along. She also knows that she is required to maintain a plan (In Writing) for her children's care in case she was to be deployed.

She knew all of this but she stayed an active member of the military. So dont feel sorry for her. She could probably have requested a discharge any time she wanted to. So now she has to follow through on her military commitment.

iirc, wasn't her commitment already up in the Army? The article says she was in the ready reserve, and I'm not sure if you can request a discharge from that. I may be wrong here, but that just doesn't seem practical if that is the case....

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: piasabird
When I was in the Army (20 years ago) a single parent, or one of two military parents who are married, could request a dischage. Anyone that refuses to leave with their unit should be placed in the Brig and discharged with a dishonrable discharge. Try finding a job after that. All along she has been taking the military pay so now she has to go to war or go to jail. Take your pick. She knew she might be deployed and she knows that she could have requested a discharge all along. She also knows that she is required to maintain a plan (In Writing) for her children's care in case she was to be deployed.

She knew all of this but she stayed an active member of the military. So dont feel sorry for her. She could probably have requested a discharge any time she wanted to. So now she has to follow through on her military commitment.

iirc, wasn't her commitment already up in the Army? The article says she was in the ready reserve, and I'm not sure if you can request a discharge from that. I may be wrong here, but that just doesn't seem practical if that is the case....

Dishonorable discharge

 

[piasabird]

They can take her military pay and hire a live-in Nanny, or leave the kids with brothers and sisters. If they really wanted help it could be arranged.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I was an Admin Clerk in the Army and I have seen this a few times. However, I was never in a unit where someone refused to deploy. However, I also have never been in a combat zone.
This person is a coward and a weasel.

:roll:

 

[MovingTarget]

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: piasabird
When I was in the Army (20 years ago) a single parent, or one of two military parents who are married, could request a dischage. Anyone that refuses to leave with their unit should be placed in the Brig and discharged with a dishonrable discharge. Try finding a job after that. All along she has been taking the military pay so now she has to go to war or go to jail. Take your pick. She knew she might be deployed and she knows that she could have requested a discharge all along. She also knows that she is required to maintain a plan (In Writing) for her children's care in case she was to be deployed.

She knew all of this but she stayed an active member of the military. So dont feel sorry for her. She could probably have requested a discharge any time she wanted to. So now she has to follow through on her military commitment.

iirc, wasn't her commitment already up in the Army? The article says she was in the ready reserve, and I'm not sure if you can request a discharge from that. I may be wrong here, but that just doesn't seem practical if that is the case....

Dishonorable discharge

Why? She was no longer on active duty. If this happened to someone in the active military or in the reserve who was still contracted, I could see this. Why would you attach this to someone in the ready reserve? I may not be 100% familiar with how the military works, but don't you have to receive a discharge to be in the 'ready reserve'? The article implies that this soldier was already out of the military....which a reasonable person would say is a good time to finally have kids...

 

[piasabird]

Maybe she should just move to Canada. Typically a soldier has a 6 year committment in the Active and Ready Reserves.

I think the Military is really scraping the bottom of the barrell. She could have taken her chances and just not report. The worst outcome would be that she would be thrown in the Brig, and then her kids would still end up in Foster Care. So she would be in the same situation. She could also report to the nearest military base on the east coast and apply for compassionate discharge. She does not have to go straight to Ft Bragg or where ever she was ordered to go.

She could also divorce her husband and claim she is a single parent.

 

[Nebor]

There's a simple solution to this. Her husband can re-enlist in the Army. If they're both active duty military, with children, they can't both be deployed simultaneously. Someone will always be around to take care of the kids.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Dingster1
If she signed the single parent/military married to military paperwork stating that she is responsible for making arrangements for her children should she get deployed, she is out of luck.

and do what with the kids?

having the father quit his job is not the answere. then what? the goverment is going to support them.

best situation is put her in ajob stateside.

but htey really need to redo how they handle females in the milatary.

Exactly. Using an antiquated model or a "one size fits all" approach simply doesn't work.

I know she signed on the dotted line, I don't have a problem with the military making people live up to their commitments... but life situations change. Nobody can look 8 years into the future and know for sure that there might not be a life situation change that could impact them in the next 8 years.

From the article:

Pagan, who grew up near Camden, N.J., was working in a department store when she made her commitment in September 2002. She learned how to drive a truck, and met Travis while stationed in Hawaii. She had her first child while in uniform, and they left the service in 2005 when their enlistments were up.

If her husband had died or something then I would agree with you, but I see no good reason that he couldn't get another job that doesn't require travel so he could be home for the kids at night??

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: piasabird

She knew all of this but she stayed an active member of the military. So dont feel sorry for her. She could probably have requested a discharge any time she wanted to. So now she has to follow through on her military commitment.

Wow, you suck at reading. Couldn't get past the first sentence of the article, could we?

A North Carolina woman who was recalled to the Army four years after being honorably discharged

You want people to put their entire lives on hold until their ready reserve time runs out as well?

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Pagan, who grew up near Camden, N.J., was working in a department store when she made her commitment in September 2002. She learned how to drive a truck, and met Travis while stationed in Hawaii. She had her first child while in uniform, and they left the service in 2005 when their enlistments were up.

If her husband had died or something then I would agree with you, but I see no good reason that he couldn't get another job that doesn't require travel so he could be home for the kids at night??

I know a guy who's hiring. He wears an American flag as a hat, has a long gray beard, and he wants you.

Seriously though, if the husband would just rejoin the Army there would always be a parent around for the kids, as both parents wouldn't be deployed simultaneously.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: piasabird

She knew all of this but she stayed an active member of the military. So dont feel sorry for her. She could probably have requested a discharge any time she wanted to. So now she has to follow through on her military commitment.

Wow, you suck at reading. Couldn't get past the first sentence of the article, could we?

A North Carolina woman who was recalled to the Army four years after being honorably discharged

You want people to put their entire lives on hold until their ready reserve time runs out as well?

Their entire lives? No, but if they want all the benefits due from their contracts, then they have to fulfill the contract. In this case I see no good reason why they can't do that. I don't see being inconvieniced as being a good enough reason.

 

[Atreus21]

Sucks when reality asserts itself.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: BrunoPuntzJones

Originally posted by: MovingTarget

Originally posted by: piasabird
When I was in the Army (20 years ago) a single parent, or one of two military parents who are married, could request a dischage. Anyone that refuses to leave with their unit should be placed in the Brig and discharged with a dishonrable discharge. Try finding a job after that. All along she has been taking the military pay so now she has to go to war or go to jail. Take your pick. She knew she might be deployed and she knows that she could have requested a discharge all along. She also knows that she is required to maintain a plan (In Writing) for her children's care in case she was to be deployed.

She knew all of this but she stayed an active member of the military. So dont feel sorry for her. She could probably have requested a discharge any time she wanted to. So now she has to follow through on her military commitment.

iirc, wasn't her commitment already up in the Army? The article says she was in the ready reserve, and I'm not sure if you can request a discharge from that. I may be wrong here, but that just doesn't seem practical if that is the case....

Dishonorable discharge

Why? She was no longer on active duty. If this happened to someone in the active military or in the reserve who was still contracted, I could see this. Why would you attach this to someone in the ready reserve? I may not be 100% familiar with how the military works, but don't you have to receive a discharge to be in the 'ready reserve'? The article implies that this soldier was already out of the military....which a reasonable person would say is a good time to finally have kids...

The way that Inactive Ready Reserve (IRR) works for enlisted soldiers is that each enlistment totals at least six (6) years, with active service and IRR combined. So, if you contract for four (4) years of active duty (or Reserve/Guard), the contract stipulates that you must also be on IRR status for at least two (w) or four (4) additional years following your release from active service. So, only once all of those years are completed are you actually finished with your contractual obligations. Even then, on very rare occasions, Presidential orders can still activate previously enlisted soldiers with unique training who have finished with everything.

It's all in the contract, and the IRR years are actually spelled out very clearly.

This situation developed within her commitment window, so it's very difficult to have sympathy for her when she should have planned her family around said commitment.

That said, I still hope she gets a stateside assignment. She didn't plan accordingly, sure, but there's no real need to punish her when I'm sure there are a ton of jobs she can do back here in the rear with the gear... I actually don't want/need her out in the front where her distractions and stress may be the death of me.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Originally posted by: palehorse
That said, I still hope she gets a stateside assignment. She didn't plan accordingly, sure, but there's no real need to punish her when I'm sure there are a ton of jobs she can do back her in the rear with the gear...

This. Finally a reality-based comment in this thread.

I thought I read somewhere that she was basically a truck driver? Not exactly hard to find a replacement for her. Give her a job stateside.

 

[palehorse]

As a Reservist, every single major decision I make in my life must take into account the possibility of deployment. The same is true for every soldier, including those on IRR.

So, she most certainly has to do something to fulfill her obligation. A stateside assignment would make the most sense...

 

[Duddy]

Originally posted by: DaveSimmons

The father needs to quit his job and take care of the kids.

You support him collecting welfare and getting food stamps to do this, right?

Thanks Bush administration, for mismanaging Iraq so badly that honorably discharged moms that already served 4 years are needed to keep the meat grinder fed.

:thumbsup:

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy
To me the welfare of the kids is way more important to the country than having an additional truck driver for a year or two. In this case, there is nobody else to raise the kids, unless dad stays home, and that would mean losing his job and thus upending the family home for the kids. That makes no sense to me.

I understand commitments and such, but family and children are more important -- period.

So we should just excuse anyone who has kids from the military?

And if woman want to be equal in the military then we have to treat them as equals and not have special rules for them because her husband has a job.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: palehorse
As a Reservist, every single major decision I make in my life must take into account the possibility of deployment. The same is true for every soldier, including those on IRR.

So, she most certainly has to do something to fulfill her obligation. A stateside assignment would make the most sense...

That's fine for her. Now when women get pregnant to get out of duty they don't like they'll have a precedent. "Hey, you let her get a cushy safe job. I want the same"

General discharge IMO.

 

[JACKDRUID]

Originally posted by: palehorse


This situation developed within her commitment window, so it's very difficult to have sympathy for her when she should have planned her family around said commitment.

That said, I still hope she gets a stateside assignment. She didn't plan accordingly, sure, but there's no real need to punish her when I'm sure there are a ton of jobs she can do back here in the rear with the gear... I actually don't want/need her out in the front where her distractions and stress may be the death of me.

if you want to be in the military so much, go ahead then I'd be proud of you.

But why force people to stay if they do not want to? How would you expect them to excel if they do not even want to be there in the first place? we spend big bucks getting those equipments/weapons, I would not trust someone who was forced to be there to use it.

obvously you are either a worthless recruitor, or you are just worthlessly not knowledged in recruiting practices. THEY LIE! ITS A FACT! on everything.. so they could meet their quota. unless you voice record, 99% of time there will be some type of misrepresentation.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: palehorse
As a Reservist, every single major decision I make in my life must take into account the possibility of deployment. The same is true for every soldier, including those on IRR.

So, she most certainly has to do something to fulfill her obligation. A stateside assignment would make the most sense...

That's fine for her. Now when women get pregnant to get out of duty they don't like they'll have a precedent. "Hey, you let her get a cushy safe job. I want the same"

General discharge IMO.

I have to disagree with a general discharge. Some other person who signed the same agreement as she did will have to take her place. He/she might be killed over there, so letting her off with a general discharge is being too easy.

I take that position assuming that she hasn't already did a tour in either Iraq or Afghanistan. The article didn't say she did that I noticed so.....

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

Originally posted by: palehorse


This situation developed within her commitment window, so it's very difficult to have sympathy for her when she should have planned her family around said commitment.

That said, I still hope she gets a stateside assignment. She didn't plan accordingly, sure, but there's no real need to punish her when I'm sure there are a ton of jobs she can do back here in the rear with the gear... I actually don't want/need her out in the front where her distractions and stress may be the death of me.

if you want to be in the military so much, go ahead then I'd be proud of you.

But why force people to stay if they do not want to? How would you expect them to excel if they do not even want to be there in the first place? we spend big bucks getting those equipments/weapons, I would not trust someone who was forced to be there to use it.

obvously you are either a worthless recruitor, or you are just worthlessly not knowledged in recruiting practices. THEY LIE! ITS A FACT! on everything.. so they could meet their quota. unless you voice record, 99% of time there will be some type of misrepresentation.

They can always leave. Just walk away. There are consequences though.

Listening to people whine about recruiters is like hearing people complain about trains who don't stop when people walk in front of them.

Since forever, the fact that recruiters misrepresent the military has been known. Does it make it right? No, however it's completely predictable. You aren't going spend your time in Maui on the beach.

Contracts need to be in clear writing and not binding for 7 days, and until that time can be voided by either side for any reason. After that, you're in son! (or daughter in this case).

Now once you are there, suck it up. The military isn't Burger King. You can't quit and for good reason. The service is not for the benefit of the enlisted, it's for the protection of the country. That means that you are going to have to work and maybe die. That is your obligation. If you can't accept that, then don't join. If you join and you don't want to play anymore, then walk away. Don't expect find a "get out of jail" card though.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: JACKDRUID

Originally posted by: palehorse
This situation developed within her commitment window, so it's very difficult to have sympathy for her when she should have planned her family around said commitment.

That said, I still hope she gets a stateside assignment. She didn't plan accordingly, sure, but there's no real need to punish her when I'm sure there are a ton of jobs she can do back here in the rear with the gear... I actually don't want/need her out in the front where her distractions and stress may be the death of me.

if you want to be in the military so much, go ahead then I'd be proud of you.

But why force people to stay if they do not want to? How would you expect them to excel if they do not even want to be there in the first place? we spend big bucks getting those equipments/weapons, I would not trust someone who was forced to be there to use it.

obvously you are either a worthless recruitor, or you are just worthlessly not knowledged in recruiting practices. THEY LIE! ITS A FACT! on everything.. so they could meet their quota. unless you voice record, 99% of time there will be some type of misrepresentation.

I'm not a recruiter, and I know all to well that they lie. I learned that lesson when I was 17 years old.

Written contracts, however, do not lie. The IRR commitment is a well-known facet of all military service and should be viewed in the same light as any other service commitment.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: nobodyknows

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: palehorse
As a Reservist, every single major decision I make in my life must take into account the possibility of deployment. The same is true for every soldier, including those on IRR.

So, she most certainly has to do something to fulfill her obligation. A stateside assignment would make the most sense...

That's fine for her. Now when women get pregnant to get out of duty they don't like they'll have a precedent. "Hey, you let her get a cushy safe job. I want the same"

General discharge IMO.

I have to disagree with a general discharge. Some other person who signed the same agreement as she did will have to take her place. He/she might be killed over there, so letting her off with a general discharge is being too easy.

I take that position assuming that she hasn't already did a tour in either Iraq or Afghanistan. The article didn't say she did that I noticed so.....

If you look at the criteria for discharge I think it fits best. Perhaps less than honorable, but dishonorable is really reserved for criminals. Technically refusing to report is criminal, but to pursue that would single her out more than others in her place. Making a martyr out of her isn't a good thing, and I believe that that's not appropriate in any case. It's not like she shot a fellow soldier in the back.

Nevertheless, a fitting punishment would be the forfeiture of any benefits she earned while in the service.