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Socket M2...what's the big deal?

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Checkout the hot deals section. There are deals for Dells 20" widescreen all the time. Some as low as 430 bucks.

btw I wouldnt wait for M2. If it makes it out next Spring it wont be until Summer until it is a reasonable price and quantity. Might as well get a great machine now and enjoy than wait another 9-12 months.
 
I agree initially there won't be much of a performance hike for M2 as DDR2 is only a little faster, and processors won't get much quicker till they shrink again.
What I am thinking about is the mid-life upgrade of my next machine - will M2 give me a good one, what is the future of M2, DDR2 and pci-e?
Will M2 accept triple/quad core processors when they arrive (prob. in 2007/8)?
Even if my M2 board won't work with whatever amd do for quad core will I be able to use my DDR2 and pci-e graphics in a quad core board?
 
Originally posted by: Bona Fide
Yeah I'm thinking about those new ATi mainboards also. I was thinking of getting an Audigy 2, but if that hardware audio is decent, I'll stick with it.

To answer the questions...

1. Primary uses for my computer are workstation apps (3dSM, Maya, Photoshop, CAD, etc.) and gaming. I don't want to have to sacrifice either of those, so the dual-core was my best solution. I've seen multiple people get their 4400+ up past 4800+ levels, and have even seen a few hit 2.6GHz. Dual FX-55 processors will be good enough for me.
Click to expand...

k, surprising though cuz ur current rig cant handle these software.
 
Originally posted by: BlingBlingArsch
Originally posted by: Bona Fide
Yeah I'm thinking about those new ATi mainboards also. I was thinking of getting an Audigy 2, but if that hardware audio is decent, I'll stick with it.

To answer the questions...

1. Primary uses for my computer are workstation apps (3dSM, Maya, Photoshop, CAD, etc.) and gaming. I don't want to have to sacrifice either of those, so the dual-core was my best solution. I've seen multiple people get their 4400+ up past 4800+ levels, and have even seen a few hit 2.6GHz. Dual FX-55 processors will be good enough for me.
Click to expand...

k, surprising though cuz ur current rig cant handle these software.
Click to expand...

Is it really? My current setup has barely enough RAM to run Photoshop and CAD software. The more intensive apps are out of the question. If they run, they run way too slow for my needs. And in any case, it's time I upgraded 😉
 
no, i was just surprised and doubting that u really use all these appz since ur current rig sucks, nvm, buy the damn x2 and have fun with it for the next 4 years 🙂
 
Originally posted by: BlingBlingArsch
no, i was just surprised and doubting that u really use all these appz since ur current rig sucks, nvm, buy the damn x2 and have fun with it for the next 4 years 🙂
Click to expand...

Next 4 years? How cool would that be...can't wait for multithreaded games and stuff.
 
Originally posted by: klah
Originally posted by: Bona Fide

3. Since one of my main concerns is gaming, the prospect of a 4ms LCD seems quite enticing, seeing as CRTs perform as 4ms as well.
Click to expand...

The rise+fall for a CRT is ~0.86ms, not 4ms. And 4ms will be for black/white/black only, the rate for most of the rest of the spectrum will be closer to 20ms.

http://graphics.tomshardware.com/display/20040923/lcd_monitors-07.html
Click to expand...

So...what about those monitors that have 12ms response time? Is that 12ms across the board, or is it gray-gray or black-white-black or something?
 
This thread makes me feel a little better. I am looking at putting together a X2 3800+ system sometime after Christmas. I was thinking of waiting for the M2 but from what you guys are saying the benefits probably aren't there.

I'm just suprised my AXP 3200+ is still going strong. Darn thing just won't die

-spike
 
Originally posted by: Hacp
Your machine looks pretty old, so if you want to upgrade now, 939 is good. But if people have 754 systems, and overclocked XP systems, then waiting the extra 6 months won't be painful because their systems ar pretty up to date and shouldn't lag much, hence waiting until their rigs get outdated and then upgrading is the best option.
Click to expand...


Look at my sig =P But it does kick the 1.6 Willamette around...

I suggest you wait for M2 or jump on fast NOW. If you jump on now, don't buy too much (like 2 GB ram). If you're going to throw that away for M2 in the end, it will be sad.

That's why I only bought 1gb for my 939 system
 
I'd wait for M2 personaly, S939 seems like it's at its end.

We will probably see a few speed bumps but thats it.

 
If you need the system power now. Get the S939. M2 mostly seems to be for supporting DDR2. I haven't really seen anything on the rumored specs yet aside from DDR2 support that would make me feel like M2 is going to be heads and tails better. Getting a AMD X2 system, 2GB (2x1GB) of RAM, a 7800GTX or maybe ATI's latest greatest and you should be set for the next 4-5 years.

If color fidelity is not a problem (you'll be working with Photoshop and Maya), then get the Dell 2005FPW. You can find it for sale for roughly $400 before tax every few weeks. Stupid Dell charges tax in PA. The Dell 2005FPW is a nice monitor that is good for gaming. I'd definitely recommend the 2005FPW over that Viewsonic you linked to. It's not as good as a CRT but still more than good enough to be playing FPS's and MMORPG's. If color fidelity is a must, getting a good 20 or 21" CRT would be the better way to go.
 
Dell 2005FPW
ALtec Lansing 5100 speakers

A64 X2 3800+
nVidia 7800GT
2x 1GB PC3200
Abit AN8 Ultra
Antec P180
2x 250GB Seagate 7200.8 H/D's

you'll probably even have some change.
 
Originally posted by: R3MF
Dell 2005FPW
ALtec Lansing 5100 speakers

A64 X2 3800+
nVidia 7800GT
2x 1GB PC3200
Abit AN8 Ultra
Antec P180
2x 250GB Seagate 7200.8 H/D's

you'll probably even have some change.
Click to expand...

Is that a suggestion for my system? It looks nice, but I'm assuming that the "5100" implies 5.1 speakers, whereas I only want/need 2.1. Also, I have been looking at the Dell LCD panels, and they ARE dead sexy. But I really don't want to have to deal with ghosting, and the Dell website says the 2405FPW is rated at 20ms. So, a conservative estimate for the 2005FPW would be 16ms. Isn't that too slow for most of today's games? And even if it isn't, I'm sure it will be too slow for coming games. And the last part is about native resolution. I believe the 2005FPW runs at 16x12 native. I'm sure my computer will be able to handle all of this year and next year's games at 16x12, but I might have to drop it down once the more intensive games come out. And since clarity is completely shot when operating off the native resolution, I'm not sure if I want to take that risk.
 
You could always take the cheaper option with upgrade paths to the future rather than spending all in one lump sum.

eg get a 3000+ now and overclock it to 2.6ghz or so. A year down the line then upgrade to a S939 X2 where the manufacturing process will be refined and so improved O/Cing and additionally getting a X2 with 1MB cache. Moreover, AMD may have moved to 65nm then and so one could also get additional speed and power benefits. (edit 65nm is educated speculation)

Additionally, by sticking with the S939 you avoid AMD's Presidio ie their implementation of DRM technology. That'll be my reason for upgrading to it and staying with it for as long as possible over M2. Of course, you then face how not having DRM might impact on you watching future 'premium' content but then again no matter what you buy now and into the future given their looking to shaft anything will help much so you may as well go with S939 - also my preference would be to simpyl avoid DRM for as long as possible for moral reasons.

Maybe with that money save and buy the Dell 2405FPW - a might impressive monitor otherwise absolutely go for the 2005FPW which is still a very very nice monitor (when you get a good one without manufacturing faults - you might have to keep exchanging until you do). Btw I remember reading that the Dell 2405FPW was 12ms somewhere and then 16ms the on the UK dell website. Current ones are based on Samsung's S-IPS panel and are mightyly impressive. I don't want others to dictate how my computer is used. You'd have to wait for a good deal on the 2405 but they do come around with rebates and such - I guess check the hotdeals forum.

Personally, I'd always spend more on your screen - it's what you stare at all the time and how you interact with your pc... I'd rather have a 2405FPW and a 6600GT over a 19" LCD and a 6800GT/7800GTX - although that's a bit extreme.

Btw both are widescreen so it isn't quite 1600x1200 - mroe like 1680 x 1050 for the 2005. Mind increasing games and certainly the future ones will be taking advantage of that resolution eg UT3 engine which many games will be based on. Also HL2s source engine does as does Far Cry which I think others are basing their games. Doom 3 doesn't but then not many people are looking to develop games on it. Of course you can just run games in a squarer mode in the middle of your screen with black around - Dell includes drivers.


To power the 2005 you'll need a 6800GT or else wait for the 7800GT in a couple of months (one month to come out, one for price to settle down) if you're looking to some future-proofing. Otherwise if going for the 2405 you'll have to look to the 7800GTX if you're not looking to upgrade much. If you wanted to wait for tech you could get a very cheap PCI-Express card until the newer cards have come and settled down.

RAM - get 1GB sticks for 2GB and 1T performance.
Crucial Value 1GB DDR3200 overclock well and often to 240-250mhz at 3-3-3 and 2.8V. Voltage doesn't need to go higher than that so no additional active cooling/noise/uunreliability is a worry. They're speed binned DDR500 Ballistix if that helps explain.
An alternative to look at is 1Gb Mushkin Blue 3200 if they are available to you (UK they aren't last I checked) which have been reported to be hitting slightly higher fsb and at slightly tighether timings 2.5-3-2 and 257mhz. That's also at 2.8V. Look to find reviews or talk to rise4310 on these forums.

Antect P180 is good.

Motherboard if you're waiting you could wait for the second incarnation of ATI chipset with the updated Southrbidge improving USB2 performance. Good audio on the ATI boards so means avoiding Creative's stuff, their bloated drivers and their moves to incoporate DRM into them - they had introduced them into their value line so I@m not sure if they've extented it yet. If you're only going 2.1 ATI's on-board will be good enough.

Mind if you're looking to M2 still I think ULI were coming out with a chipset that supports both s939 and M2 and AGP and PCI-Express - check anand's motherboard section for more info as I don't quite know the details and how it'll work.
 
In short:

2405FPW (wait for good deal)
3000+ ---> upgrade later to cheap 65nm 1MB cache/core X2 and O/C
Motherboard that fits your needs...
2 x 1Gb of Crucial Value or Muskin Blue
7800GTX or perhaps 7800GT if you ended up waiting
P180
1 x 250-300GB hardrive. ---> upgrade or add another later. It sounds like you're unlikel;y to need too much storage


Does that come close to budget?
 
Originally posted by: Diasper
In short:

2405FPW (wait for good deal)
3000+ ---> upgrade later to cheap 65nm 1MB cache/core X2 and O/C
Motherboard that fits your needs...
2 x 1Gb of Crucial Value or Muskin Blue
7800GTX or perhaps 7800GT if you ended up waiting
P180
1 x 250-300GB hardrive. ---> upgrade or add another later. It sounds like you're unlikel;y to need too much storage


Does that come close to budget?
Click to expand...

Here's what I don't get. Let's say I wait for a 65nm X2. What's to say that it won't be an M2-only CPU? So far we've seen 2 revisions on the s939 set. Will AMD really put out a 3rd one?
 
Originally posted by: Bona Fide
Originally posted by: Diasper
In short:

2405FPW (wait for good deal)
3000+ ---> upgrade later to cheap 65nm 1MB cache/core X2 and O/C
Motherboard that fits your needs...
2 x 1Gb of Crucial Value or Muskin Blue
7800GTX or perhaps 7800GT if you ended up waiting
P180
1 x 250-300GB hardrive. ---> upgrade or add another later. It sounds like you're unlikel;y to need too much storage


Does that come close to budget?
Click to expand...

Here's what I don't get. Let's say I wait for a 65nm X2. What's to say that it won't be an M2-only CPU? So far we've seen 2 revisions on the s939 set. Will AMD really put out a 3rd one?
Click to expand...

To be honest I'm making an educated speculation. I find it unlikely given a massive newly opened 65nm fab that they're going to wait for many months (even a year) for M2 to become mainstream in which time it doesn't even push the new 65nm fab to any sort of capacity when it was a massive investment and promises cost and performance savings on *any* cpus build on it.

Fab 36 opens early 2006 - M2 starts Q2 2006 so perhaps the fab36 open a little earlier. Either way M2 won't hit volume for a long while in which case AMD is letting alot of cost-saving potential going to waste in fab36. Isn't AMD currently fab limited anyway ie they're completely selling out of X2s as fast as they are selling them. Surely, they'll use all the spare capacity they have so that'll mean 65nm.

Maybe I'm wrong but probability would seem to indicate otherwise to me.


edit - Of course, going 3000+ now and upgrading to dual-core later will still obviously see a price saving - although that's given you don't *need* dual-core now
 
Looking at the AMD roadmap maybe I@m wrong as there is no mention of a new revision etc.

Still not using the Fab36 and its capability seems a little crazy.

Maybe they will change to 65nm and not change the revision code?

===================================================
edit:

ok scrap all that. Looking here the first M2 processors will be 90nm meaning there won't be a rush to 65nm particularly for the S939. Maybe in the longer term there might be a shift to it but not for quite a while or perhaps more likely not at all. Oh well.

As the guy said - the best time to upgrade is now then : )
 
That would make sense considering we only had 2 process revisions per socket, by AMD.

Slot A 0.25 micron and 0.18 micron

S462/ 0.18 micron and 0.13 micron
S939/ 0.13 micron SOI and 0.09 micron SOI

SM2/ 0.09 DSL SOI and 65nm DSL SOI???

 
AMD is currently looking to start shipping 65nm products about the beginning of Q3 2006 as it currently looks. That will obviously be for M2. Perhaps there is still a small chance some dual-core S939 might progress to it because at that point they should still be selling significant numbers of them (people may be looking to upgrade from single to dual through it) but no doubt it'll take a back seat for AMD. No doubt they are pursuing a wait-and-see approach and so nothing can be guaranteed.

Diasper
 
Originally posted by: Bona Fide


Here's what I don't get. Let's say I wait for a 65nm X2. What's to say that it won't be an M2-only CPU? So far we've seen 2 revisions on the s939 set. Will AMD really put out a 3rd one?
Click to expand...

AMD announced yesterday that they are going to guarantee the current Opteron and Embedded processors models for the next 5 years.

link

While that doesn't answer your question directly, it is a very strong indicator that they will continue the 939 as well because of the similarities in construction.
 
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