Socket 939 has a worse price:performance ratio than 754, so why would anyone want it?

[t3h l337 n3wb]

S939 has dual-core CPUs, dual-channel RAM, and better overclocking capabilities.

 

[SonicIce]

Originally posted by: Vernor

Originally posted by: ProviaFan
One word: dual core

Will we see <150$ s939 dual-cores ?

In the next 12 months ? Ever ?

The 3400+ was about $430 in January 2004, it's half that now. I guess you can expect the dual-cores to come down to half or at least 50% from the time they are availible to a year after that.

 

[imported_Kensai]

Better performance and more upgradability.

 

[SonicIce]

Originally posted by: Kensai
Better performance and more upgradability.

performance is worse for an equally priced cpu

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: SonicIce

Originally posted by: Kensai
Better performance and more upgradability.

performance is worse for an equally priced cpu

They'll never budge. You can show them all the numbers you want, but some folks act just like little kids. They have to have what's trendy, or what's newer; it makes no difference which choice is most logical. It doesn't matter to them that you can get a faster CPU with s754. They want SLI and dual core boards--forget that they'll probably never even use either feature, or that they could save money by getting socket-754 right now--they have to have it, because that's what's popular. Really, they behave like children.

 

[Megatomic]

I'm going to be sticking to s754 until it is not a viable gaming platform anymore. I'll be upgrading my 3400+ CH to a 3700+ CH and bumping my RAM up to 2GB next month. I plan to stick with the 6800GT I have. When I can't play a game at 1280x1024 with decent framerates I'll upgrade to a dual core system. But guess what? When I have to upgrade to play games so will everyone with a s939 single core CPU. And by then there will be sweeter motherboards to choose from.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: smithdj
Sonic Ice, after 1000 posts I must say I am disappointed with your thinking. Socket 754 is already obsolete for the most part and you are ripping 939 because you dont know if it will still be the AMD standard in 2 years. I am sure when AMD switches to DDR2 socket 939 will be gone. Get use to it, every tech company is like this.

Just by looking the way the memory maket is going, AMD may completly skip DDR2 and go Streight to DDR3. Infinion and Samsung are already producing and distributing samples to DIMM makers like Corsair, OCZ, and Kingston.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: Noob
That's the only thing I don't like aobut AMD: much more frequent Socket changes.

How is that differant from Intel's "Much more frequent motherboard changes"? Be greatful to AMD that you dont need a new board like Intel users do for dual core. Any time a new memory technology comes out it requires a new chipset and motherboard, but the same is not always true for CPU's and I am glad.

 

[TomKazansky]

Originally posted by: FlyingPenguin
Well one thing I can throw at you is that only socket 939 mobos are upgradable to dual core.

 

[akugami]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou

They'll never budge. You can show them all the numbers you want, but some folks act just like little kids. They have to have what's trendy, or what's newer; it makes no difference which choice is most logical. It doesn't matter to them that you can get a faster CPU with s754. They want SLI and dual core boards--forget that they'll probably never even use either feature, or that they could save money by getting socket-754 right now--they have to have it, because that's what's popular. Really, they behave like children.

Not necessarily true. For frequent upgraders that upgrade at least one part every 12-18 months, it's cheaper to go with S939 than S754. No one is argueing with the fact that at this point in time, S754 is a better price performance buy than S939. However, for frequent upgraders, S939 would actually save them money.

You can buy a S754 system now and then if you want to upgrade to dual core in two years, you'd have to buy a socket M2 system or a S939 system. During that upgrade you're forced to upgrade your video card at the same time and maybe RAM as well if you go M2. With the S939 system, I can upgrade only the CPU if I want to go dual core, although if I was a frequent upgrader I'd have probably upgraded my video card as well but I am not forced to do so.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: akugami
Not necessarily true. For frequent upgraders that upgrade at least one part every 12-18 months, it's cheaper to go with S939 than S754. No one is argueing with the fact that at this point in time, S754 is a better price performance buy than S939. However, for frequent upgraders, S939 would actually save them money.

You can buy a S754 system now and then if you want to upgrade to dual core in two years, you'd have to buy a socket M2 system or a S939 system. During that upgrade you're forced to upgrade your video card at the same time and maybe RAM as well if you go M2. With the S939 system, I can upgrade only the CPU if I want to go dual core, although if I was a frequent upgrader I'd have probably upgraded my video card as well but I am not forced to do so.

The numbers don't work that way. Buy socket 754 now, and a year down the road you can get a new motherboard with the money you saved.

Also, why would you need to swap out the video card or memory? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[akugami]

Let's assume it's an all new system. S754 board with PCI-E. Looking on Newegg, the cheapest PCI-E based S754 board is close to $70 while the cheapest S939 board is about $80. The cheapest S754 A64 processor I could find on Newegg was a 2800 for $125 roughly. The cheapest S939 was a 3000 for $150. These are rounded figures for easier viewing. You save roughly $35-45 for a S754 system. Huge savings. You can do the searches yourself on Newegg. The numbers don't lie. While there is a very slight price performance ratio in favor of the S754, at this point it's not enough to matter and the upgradeability of the S939 makes it a much better buy.

I've proved my point with numbers pulled from Newegg. All prices were rounded up so not 100% accurate but certainly accurate enough that they prove my point. The two cpu's perform roughly the same and are both 1.8ghz. The two motherboards had roughly the same features though the S939 was slightly better with 4 SATA ports and gigabit ethernet. If you decide to upgrade to just dual core and nothing else, you'll have to replace the motherboard and the cpu for the S754 mobo. Whereas the S939 board you just have to replace the CPU.

Let's also not forget that when going from S754 to S939 or M2 for X2 dual core CPU's that you will have to take out your whole system, reinstall everything that is you're recycling into the new system. That means I'll have to uninstall all my peripherals like optical drives, HD's, video card, ram, etc. Take out my motherboard, install new motherboard in case, then reconnect everything. Most likely requiring a new install of Windows as well. Yes, time can be considered free, but by the same token, time can also be considered money. With the S939 mobo since I'm keeping the same board, I can just pop in a new X2 and be up and running in less than 10 minutes (barring some fancy aftermarket HSF which requires the mobo to be removed for cpu installation).

I was trying to match both systems as close as possible specs wise which is why I chose a PCI-E based S754. And those 3400 or 3500 CPU's. Forget them. Anyone considering a S754 has price as a major concern, they're much more likely to be choosing a S754 2800+ or S939 3000+. I don't agree with throwing a mid-range CPU on budget boards when argueing price/performance ratios. Anyone getting a $230-270 CPU is going to have a motherboard that cost at least $100.

The Socket M2 design uses DDR2 memory. I'd take a wild stab at it and say if you upgrade to M2 from S754 you're gonna have to chuck your DDR1 memory. That's where the new memory comment came in. Depending on what you're upgrading to from S754 two or so years down the line, you may need to upgrade a lot of stuff. The upgrade from S939 to M2 is the same cost wise as S754 to M2 since you'll be upgrading mainly the same parts. However, since S939 supports X2 dual cores there is a lesser urgency to upgrade to M2 for more performance power as opposed to the single core only S754.

 

[hurtstotalktoyou]

Originally posted by: akugami
Let's assume it's an all new system. S754 board with PCI-E. Looking on Newegg, the cheapest PCI-E based S754 board is close to $70 while the cheapest S939 board is about $80. The cheapest S754 A64 processor I could find on Newegg was a 2800 for $125 roughly. The cheapest S939 was a 3000 for $150. These are rounded figures for easier viewing. You save roughly $35-45 for a S754 system. Huge savings. You can do the searches yourself on Newegg. The numbers don't lie. While there is a very slight price performance ratio in favor of the S754, at this point it's not enough to matter and the upgradeability of the S939 makes it a much better buy.

I've proved my point with numbers pulled from Newegg. All prices were rounded up so not 100% accurate but certainly accurate enough that they prove my point. The two cpu's perform roughly the same and are both 1.8ghz. The two motherboards had roughly the same features though the S939 was slightly better with 4 SATA ports and gigabit ethernet. If you decide to upgrade to just dual core and nothing else, you'll have to replace the motherboard and the cpu for the S754 mobo. Whereas the S939 board you just have to replace the CPU.

You haven't proved your point at all. Most people who upgrade every 12-18 months buy extremely fast CPUs, in this case about 3400+ and above. Take these examples:
$194 Athlon 64 3400+ s754
$267 Athlon 64 3500+ s939
$280 Athlon 64 3700+ s754
$329 Athlon 64 3700+ s939
$69 socket-754 motherboard with PCI-express
$82 socket-939 motherboard with PCI-express

As you can see, it's $84 in savings to go with the 3400+ over the 3500+, or $62 between 3700+ platforms. While the $62 may be a few dollars shy of the price of a new board (although we can't know how much prices will come down in a year), you must also take into account that you can sell the old one on Ebay.

Let's also not forget that when going from S754 to S939 or M2 for X2 dual core CPU's that you will have to take out your whole system, reinstall everything that is you're recycling into the new system. That means I'll have to uninstall all my peripherals like optical drives, HD's, video card, ram, etc. Take out my motherboard, install new motherboard in case, then reconnect everything. Most likely requiring a new install of Windows as well. Yes, time can be considered free, but by the same token, time can also be considered money. With the S939 mobo since I'm keeping the same board, I can just pop in a new X2 and be up and running in less than 10 minutes (barring some fancy aftermarket HSF which requires the mobo to be removed for cpu installation).

True, but I've always considered PC tinkering to be a fun little exercise. I suppose if you'd rather not deal with it, you can go for socket-939, but I don't think anyone really cares about that.

I was trying to match both systems as close as possible specs wise which is why I chose a PCI-E based S754. And those 3400 or 3500 CPU's. Forget them. Anyone considering a S754 has price as a major concern, they're much more likely to be choosing a S754 2800+ or S939 3000+. I don't agree with throwing a mid-range CPU on budget boards when argueing price/performance ratios. Anyone getting a $230-270 CPU is going to have a motherboard that cost at least $100.

I disagree. Sure, socket-939 is the norm for that price point, but this thread is meant to point out that it shouldn't be!

The Socket M2 design uses DDR2 memory. I'd take a wild stab at it and say if you upgrade to M2 from S754 you're gonna have to chuck your DDR1 memory. That's where the new memory comment came in. Depending on what you're upgrading to from S754 two or so years down the line, you may need to upgrade a lot of stuff. The upgrade from S939 to M2 is the same cost wise as S754 to M2 since you'll be upgrading mainly the same parts. However, since S939 supports X2 dual cores there is a lesser urgency to upgrade to M2 for more performance power as opposed to the single core only S754.

Why are you dragging M2 into this? If M2 costs more for the same performance, why get it? And if you need performance only M2 offers, then you can throw the whole 939-upgrade argument out the window.

 

[Geomagick]

If I were buying a PC on a real tight budget tomorrow I would get S754.

However I am not, have not ever constrained my budget like that and probably will not.

On another note I think tha both S754 and S939 have some life left in them. S754 coupled with Sempron offers a great budget system and S939 is not that expensive when coupled with a 3000+ and it offers full compatibility with X2.

 

[dynamicx]

You haven't proved your point at all. Most people who upgrade every 12-18 months buy extremely fast CPUs, in this case about 3400+ and above. Take these examples:
$194 Athlon 64 3400+ s754
$267 Athlon 64 3500+ s939
$280 Athlon 64 3700+ s754
$329 Athlon 64 3700+ s939
$69 socket-754 motherboard with PCI-express
$82 socket-939 motherboard with PCI-express

As you can see, it's $84 in savings to go with the 3400+ over the 3500+, or $62 between 3700+ platforms. While the $62 may be a few dollars shy of the price of a new board (although we can't know how much prices will come down in a year), you must also take into account that you can sell the old one on Ebay.

Well I disagree, personally I will be choosing 939 because I believe it will work out cheaper for me. I'm planning to buy a 3200+, an ASUS mobo, 6600GT and a stick of RAM. If I buy it in 754 form, I save £5 on the cpu and £20 on a comparable mobo. With the 754 if I want to upgrade to dual core in one or two years I'll have to buy a new mobo and cpu. While even if 939 only lasts a year and a half I can still use the same mobo to use a 4800, or 5xxx dual core when they come down to sensible prices. This means I will gotten two "cycles" out of the mobo, while having to buy a new one would cost more than the £25 I saved.

I guess you might save money if you do buy the top componants each year, but for me, 939 makes sense.

 

[powerMarkymark]

I also went with socket 754.

Works for me!

M@rc

 

[Cheezeit]

If you're buying a computer on a normal budget right now, i don't see why not to get s939 as far as upgradability/support goes.

The only reason to get 754 should be if you were on a really tight budget

 

[Sunner]

I'll be buying a new system soon, and it'll be s939 for these reasons:
Better selection of motherboards(Likely to go with a DFI LanParty Ultra-D)
Better selection of CPU's, all the way up to 4000+ and FX-55, as well as X2.
The motherboards are overall more feature laden, though there are of course high end s754 boards and low end s939 boards.
Last but not least, the price difference is extremely negligible.

 

[LED]

Heh...personally I went with the best of both worlds and after exchanging my squares from 754 to 939 I noticed an improvement and now I'm ready for DC on the CPU with DC Memory running, and bring on 64bit OS all for under $80 US and when I bought the MoBo it was $60...

 

[SonicIce]

uh if you dont mind my asking, whats M2?

 

[Sunner]

Originally posted by: SonicIce
uh if you dont mind my asking, whats M2?

AMD's coming replacement for s939 in the high end(and of course as always, it'll move down with time), will have ~1200 pins.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

<----- has a 754 system with AGP and is very happy. i see no reason to upgrade untill i know dual cores work, and i know that ill be needing them. i havent got the cash to splash on a G70 and at the minute i dont need to, a 6800GT is enough. i also see my computer usage patern turning more to office/ music/ video/ web/ and doing wierd iterating/calculation crap for my uni course. so gaming is becoming less of a priority

i can happily keep up with similar and slightly faster machines based on 939 platform

but i say this

for those on socket 754 there isnt really any need to upgrade to 939 (less you can afford to go mega and splurge on FX55 and SLI, or u really need Dual core)

for those looking into buying a new rig, then really 939 is the way to go regardless if you want some longevity in your purchase

 

[Ripwalk]

why is it not worth going to 939 unless you go with the fx chips?

 

[cryptonomicon]

Originally posted by: n7
One reason why i switched from 754 to 939. OCing.

It's much better with the 939 CPUs.

we have yet for someone to coherently explain how the 939 platform is a better overclocker.
go ahead, someone explain how it physically overclocks better. and please dont say something stupid like "the chips are better". of course they are. most of them are based off 90nm, and 90nm chips passed to s754 overclock awesome too.


i'd also am wondering why people say "if you have the money then get this, otherwise get that". I never buy components like that. I buy the best value component, that sits in the BEST location on the anything-but-linear inflated price curve. why? because first of all, you save a good amount of money that way. now the counter-arguement is, "if you put all that money into your components, you would be able to have your system last longer!!! why buy anything budget?" -- I disagree with this. i have found that products in the same generation generally become obsolete at the same time. example? every graphics card series. i have a ti4200, but it is just as obsolete as a ti4600 with newer games. what about older CPU cores, with only SSE1. if i have something that requires SSE2, it doesnt matter which sub-product level I bought does it, because it's now obsolete. hence is why I always buy at the best 'performance-curve'-- it all becomes obsolete at about the same time. therefore, s754 is pretty much a superior choice. the platform is plenty powerful, 939 has not made 754 outdated. SLI/PCI-E is also immature. something like 90% of people own AGP still, and it should last for another 2-3 years until OEM mfgs finally saturate out the market.

 

[mircea]

Originally posted by: hurtstotalktoyou
Why are you dragging M2 into this? If M2 costs more for the same performance, why get it? And if you need performance only M2 offers, then you can throw the whole 939-upgrade argument out the window.

Because M2 is very important to consider. If you plan ahead you can save money by buying something expensive now that pays off in the future.
If you don't feel that you have to consider M2 when buying now, then you shouldn't even be here talking about decisions. You have made yours. Go buy what you have decided.