Socialism works so well

[Jawo]

I don't understand why Obama is trying to socialize the country when we lambast other countries that shift radically to the left. Socialism just doesn't work, it was a failure in Europe over the past several decades, and it looks like its failing in Venezuela now as well. I know that in this country the politicians are two faced...but this is getting epic. How in the world is Obama going to support all of these social programs that he is pushing AND cut taxes at the same time? Does Barack subscribe to W's fiscal management policy? Or is Obama going to wave his magic wand and everything is resolved?

Not to mention Biden said "we're gonna have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy"

Oil powerhouse Venezuela struggles to keep lights on
Obama and the Tax Tipping Point: How long before taxpayers are pushed too far?

The New York Post even admits a blatent Bias: (written by a democrat!)BIDEN'S BUNGLES: A BLATANT BIAS

EDIT: Let me make it crystal clear: I am not for EITHER candidate

 

[GTKeeper]

He's not trying to socialize the country. Look-up what socialism is first, then come back here and we can have a discussion.

He's going to cut taxes for most, but overall increase taxes to raise revenue to pay off the loans that our country has.

If you think he is being socialist by trying to give everyone health care coverage, you might as well say that Arnold in California is a socialist too, because he is trying to do the exact same thing.

This whole 'Socialism' thing is getting ridiculous. I actually grew up on 'Socialistic Europe' before moving to the US, and I can state for a fact that what Obama is trying to do is NOT socialist. Its just a pimped out term at this point. If you want to have an intelligent discussion on what is socialism and what is not, I am all for it.

 

[Xavier434]

Do you even know what socialism really is or are you only basing it off of places like Venezuela?

I'm tired of this bullshit that Obama is trying to socialize America. Some are even going as far as to call him a communist. It is absurd and even those who do not support Obama and understand what socialism and communism really is will tell you that you are wrong.

 

[fskimospy]

1.) Obama isn't trying to socialize the country.
2.) Europe isn't socialist.
3.) McCain makes major foreign policy gaffes constantly, they get little to no attention for the same reason Biden's do not.

 

[jman19]

I love it when people just throw around the word socialist. OP, tell me exactly how you think Obama will change this country to be like Venezuela...

 

[techs]

Yes, but it works so well in Norway, Sweden, Germany, France, Holland, etc.
Oh wait. They are democracies.

 

[chess9]

First of all, Venezuala is not the USA. They have major social and economic issues.

Europe has socialized medicine and transportation (in part).

McCain voted FOR the $850 billion rescue package for Wall Street. Does that make him a SOCIALIST?

-Robert

 

[Ryan]

"In 2001, McCain, along with Republican apostate Lincoln Chafee, were the only two Republican senators to vote against the first Bush tax cut. In 2003, he was one of three Republicans to vote against the second round......McCain correctly noted that it didn't make sense to cut taxes in a time of war, especially in ways that benefited the wealthy to such a large degree."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/108374

Seems like the John McCain of the past agrees with Obama......

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Ryan
"In 2001, McCain, along with Republican apostate Lincoln Chafee, were the only two Republican senators to vote against the first Bush tax cut. In 2003, he was one of three Republicans to vote against the second round......McCain correctly noted that it didn't make sense to cut taxes in a time of war, especially in ways that benefited the wealthy to such a large degree."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/108374

What's changed John? Were you a "socialist" in the past?

Not very Mavericky, huh?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: jman19
I love it when people just throw around the word socialist. OP, tell me exactly how you think Obama will change this country to be like Venezuela...

He doesn't know. :roll: He probably got some lame chain e-mail and thought he'd run in here and post all about how Obama will "spread the wealth around." And you know, you KNOW, that = socialism. Yup, you heard it here first folks. Or maybe in that lame chain email in your spam folder. Either way...

 

[Jawo]

I didn't say communist....I said socialist: An economic, social and political doctrine which expresses the struggle for the equal distribution of wealth by eliminating private property and the exploitative ruling class.

Please look beyond South America...look at Europe....the EU was having economic struggles for the past 5 years....while the US was rapidly growing. each country can not control its fiscal policy anymore, so inflation is higher, and unemployment is higher. Please look at the riots outside of Paris a few years ago.

Obama has said multiple times that he wants to redistribute wealth by making the rich pay higher taxes, and give the money to the poor. (Who won't pay taxes.....ie government hand outs). While I agree that everyone should be covered by health care, Obama's policies will force a "one size fits all" health care system on to everyone; which will not work. How are all his social programs going to work without massively raising taxes.

Obama has a few things going for him: He provides hope, he is a good orator, he's great at separating people from their money.

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: Jawo
I didn't say communist....I said socialist: An economic, social and political doctrine which expresses the struggle for the equal distribution of wealth by eliminating private property and the exploitative ruling class.

Please look beyond South America...look at Europe....the EU was having economic struggles for the past 5 years....while the US was rapidly growing. each country can not control its fiscal policy anymore, so inflation is higher, and unemployment is higher. Please look at the riots outside of Paris a few years ago.

Obama has said multiple times that he wants to redistribute wealth by making the rich pay higher taxes, and give the money to the poor. (Who won't pay taxes.....ie government hand outs). While I agree that everyone should be covered by health care, Obama's policies will force a "one size fits all" health care system on to everyone; which will not work. How are all his social programs going to work without massively raising taxes.

Obama has a few things going for him: He provides hope, he is a good orator, he's great at separating people from their money.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5v-1ifm93g - Old McCain wants to tax the rich.....maybe it's because he realized that in time of fiscal insolvency, we cannot afford to give credits to people who do not need them?

 

[Juddog]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: jman19
I love it when people just throw around the word socialist. OP, tell me exactly how you think Obama will change this country to be like Venezuela...

He doesn't know. :roll: He probably got some lame chain e-mail and thought he'd run in here and post all about how Obama will "spread the wealth around." And you know, you KNOW, that = socialism. Yup, you heard it here first folks. Or maybe in that lame chain email in your spam folder. Either way...

It's just the GOP smear machine trying to get a word or phrase to stick to Obama, like they got Kerry with "flip flopper". First they tried to stick Obama with Muslim, now they're saying he's a socialist. The GOP will have to keep working to find that catchy phrase.

 

[chess9]

Oh, Europe has economic struggles but they haven't done away with private property and there are plenty of very rich and very poor Germans, Italians and French. You throw around these terms very loosely and without a strong, focused argument. You are diffuse, like Bill O'Reilly or Rush Limbaugh. If you read a bit more, you might learn something. Have you graduated from high school? Tenth Grade is so awesome, like, dude!

No neither Obama nor McCain will get their wishes with Congress, though Obama is more likely to implement more of his agenda with a Dem congress. So what? At this stage it's more about impressions and some general ideas of the direction the candidate would go. It's also about leadership ability. McCain was the anchor at the Naval Academy, or damned near, and it shows. He's a weak leader, and his pick of Palin is highly suggestive of his poor judgement. There are a dozen other things he's done recently which suggest he's all over the place with his ideas. McCain would be a disaster for this country, and Palin would be cause for revolution.

-Robert

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: Jawo
I didn't say communist....I said socialist: An economic, social and political doctrine which expresses the struggle for the equal distribution of wealth by eliminating private property and the exploitative ruling class.

Please look beyond South America...look at Europe....the EU was having economic struggles for the past 5 years....while the US was rapidly growing. each country can not control its fiscal policy anymore, so inflation is higher, and unemployment is higher. Please look at the riots outside of Paris a few years ago.

Obama has said multiple times that he wants to redistribute wealth by making the rich pay higher taxes, and give the money to the poor. (Who won't pay taxes.....ie government hand outs). While I agree that everyone should be covered by health care, Obama's policies will force a "one size fits all" health care system on to everyone; which will not work. How are all his social programs going to work without massively raising taxes.

Obama has a few things going for him: He provides hope, he is a good orator, he's great at separating people from their money.

Before I share my thoughts... a question

Do you believe that increasing the tax bracket on the rich only (changing the 35% back to 39.6% bracket) and leaving everything else the same, is spreading the wealth?

As for the health care question, I think that Obama is pushing a hybrid system (much like they have in Switzerland) of health care. I.E if you cannot afford it, you will get basic care from the gov't. If you can, you continue to have yours with your employer.

With that being said, I think you can look and see what Arnold is trying to do in California, which is actually quite brilliant. He is going to make health care mandatory for everyone so everyone can have it. This in turn will actually LOWER premiums for people like me (if I was living in Cali) because the insured pay for the uninsured anyway in 2 ways.

1) Young healthy people who don't have health care don't pay any premiums (so they do not offset the cost of the sick)
2) Each time someone visits a hospital without insurance, that causes all of our premiums to go up because the insurance company has to make up the difference from some where.

Now the beauty of thie Cali health care program is that its revenue neutral. No new taxes at all to pay for it.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Jawo
I didn't say communist....I said socialist: An economic, social and political doctrine which expresses the struggle for the equal distribution of wealth by eliminating private property and the exploitative ruling class.

Please look beyond South America...look at Europe....the EU was having economic struggles for the past 5 years....while the US was rapidly growing. each country can not control its fiscal policy anymore, so inflation is higher, and unemployment is higher. Please look at the riots outside of Paris a few years ago.

Obama has said multiple times that he wants to redistribute wealth by making the rich pay higher taxes, and give the money to the poor. (Who won't pay taxes.....ie government hand outs). While I agree that everyone should be covered by health care, Obama's policies will force a "one size fits all" health care system on to everyone; which will not work. How are all his social programs going to work without massively raising taxes.

Obama has a few things going for him: He provides hope, he is a good orator, he's great at separating people from their money.

Uh yeah, Obama wants to eliminate private property. Suuuurrre he does.

And take it from me, McCain wants to redistribute wealth too, just in the opposite direction of Obama. McCain's tax proposals benefit the wealthy and benefit huge corporations ... in other words, the wealth is being spread from the middle class to the upper class and Corporate America.

But yeah, get back to us when you actually understand Obama's healthcare proposals. You obviously haven't bothered to even read them.

On health care reform, the American people are too often offered two extremes - government-run health care with higher taxes or letting the insurance companies operate without rules. Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe both of these extremes are wrong, and that?s why they?ve proposed a plan that strengthens employer coverage, makes insurance companies accountable and ensures patient choice of doctor and care without government interference.

 

[Jawo]

I don't see all the excitement about Obama...what does he provide besides hope? Its a fact that he is one of the most liberal senators in Congress. Maybe it has to do with all the Marxist conferences that he attended while in school in NYC....which is strangely absent from many bio's I have seen.

I just want this country to avoid another great depression...

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Jawo
I don't understand why Obama is trying to socialize the country

Exactly...

Removing Bush's tax cut on the rich does NOT equal socialism. Socialism is another failed talking point from the republicans to try and paint Obama in a bad light and avoid real issues.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: Jawo
I didn't say communist....I said socialist: An economic, social and political doctrine which expresses the struggle for the equal distribution of wealth by eliminating private property and the exploitative ruling class.

Please look beyond South America...look at Europe....the EU was having economic struggles for the past 5 years....while the US was rapidly growing. each country can not control its fiscal policy anymore, so inflation is higher, and unemployment is higher. Please look at the riots outside of Paris a few years ago.

Obama has said multiple times that he wants to redistribute wealth by making the rich pay higher taxes, and give the money to the poor. (Who won't pay taxes.....ie government hand outs). While I agree that everyone should be covered by health care, Obama's policies will force a "one size fits all" health care system on to everyone; which will not work. How are all his social programs going to work without massively raising taxes.

Obama has a few things going for him: He provides hope, he is a good orator, he's great at separating people from their money.

Until you respond to the following i'll have to assume your trolling and not trying to have a real discussion.

Originally posted by: Ryan
"In 2001, McCain, along with Republican apostate Lincoln Chafee, were the only two Republican senators to vote against the first Bush tax cut. In 2003, he was one of three Republicans to vote against the second round......McCain correctly noted that it didn't make sense to cut taxes in a time of war, especially in ways that benefited the wealthy to such a large degree."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/108374

Seems like the John McCain of the past agrees with Obama......

Obama's trying to turn back the tax cuts that McCain voted against and felt were a bad idea when they were passed. How does that make Obama a socialist? Is McCain a socialist?

 

[retrospooty]

Originally posted by: Jawo
I don't see all the excitement about Obama...what does he provide besides hope? Its a fact that he is one of the most liberal senators in Congress. Maybe it has to do with all the Marxist conferences that he attended while in school in NYC....which is strangely absent from many bio's I have seen.

I just want this country to avoid another great depression...

ITs odd, your post seems conflicted...

"what does he provide besides hope" - a plan. Have you not been paying any attaention at all to anything other than republican skewed talking points?

I just want this country to avoid another great depression.... So avoiding the policies of the past 8 years of republican control isnt a good idea to you? Reversing hte tax policies to the way they were uinder the prosperous Clinton years is socialism?

Either you are not paying attention at all, or you are purposefully trying to change people minds. Which is it?

 

[AnitaPeterson]

Originally posted by: Jawo
I didn't say communist....I said socialist: An economic, social and political doctrine which expresses the struggle for the equal distribution of wealth by eliminating private property and the exploitative ruling class.

Please look beyond South America...look at Europe....the EU was having economic struggles for the past 5 years....while the US was rapidly growing. each country can not control its fiscal policy anymore, so inflation is higher, and unemployment is higher. Please look at the riots outside of Paris a few years ago.

Obama has said multiple times that he wants to redistribute wealth by making the rich pay higher taxes, and give the money to the poor. (Who won't pay taxes.....ie government hand outs). While I agree that everyone should be covered by health care, Obama's policies will force a "one size fits all" health care system on to everyone; which will not work. How are all his social programs going to work without massively raising taxes.

Obama has a few things going for him: He provides hope, he is a good orator, he's great at separating people from their money.

WTF?
Are you seriously daft? Where on Earth did you come up with all this crap about Europe?
They're doing just fine over there, especially considering that the EU is still a growing experiment... All the economic indicators are going upwards, and most of us know the Parisian riots were politically-motivated. Oh, and don't forget that the Scandinavian countries, although "socialist" (while in fact, Social-Democrat), continue to top the worldwide life quality polls...

 

[DealMonkey]

Why do I get a sneaking suspicion that Jawo's thread is a one-way street? In other words, he's basically here to proselytize to all of us and respond to nothing? I nominate Jawo for biggest douche in the universe. Can I get a second?

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Jawo
I don't see all the excitement about Obama...what does he provide besides hope? Its a fact that he is one of the most liberal senators in Congress. Maybe it has to do with all the Marxist conferences that he attended while in school in NYC....which is strangely absent from many bio's I have seen.

I just want this country to avoid another great depression...

You realize that the bailout, which was supported by both your Republicans and the evil socialist-terrorist Obama, is the most socialist thing done in this country's history?

The tax restructuring proposed by Obama is nearly IDENTICAL to the structure we had in the 1990s. Were the 1990s Socialist? Was Bill Clinton and the Republican Congress a bunch of commie-loving socialists? No.

 

[Jawo]

Why do so many people in this country go by what they hear on the news, besides reading it for themselves? I can't believe the number of people in the "Real US" (ie rural midwest) believed he was muslim for so long?

And chess9....why is unemployment so high in europe? Its systemic of the economy there

 

[Ryan]

Originally posted by: Jawo
Why do so many people in this country go by what they hear on the news, besides reading it for themselves? I can't believe the number of people in the "Real US" (ie rural midwest) believed he was muslim for so long?

And chess9....why is unemployment so high in europe? Its systemic of the economy there

Again, why do you fail to address the point that McCain once held the EXACT same view Obama holds now? This is fact, and you need no news orginization to tell you it - it came right from the mouth of the horse.