Social Security?

[IronWing]

Hasn't congress taken money that was previously for social security and used it for other programs? Thought I recall hearing previously that's another reason the bank is low.

What was previously an investment account is now a redistribution of current assets. I completely agree with your comment on raising the cap.

SS funds have always been invested in government bonds where they earn the prevailing interest rate on those bonds. If the government simply put the money under a mattress even the meager interest earned on government bonds would be lost to the plan. Building a cash hoard in the SS fund benefits no one. Al Gore's lockbox was a dumb idea.

 

[HendrixFan]

SS funds have always been invested in government bonds where they earn the prevailing interest rate on those bonds. If the government simply put the money under a mattress even the meager interest earned on government bonds would be lost to the plan. Building a cash hoard in the SS fund benefits no one. Al Gore's lockbox was a dumb idea.

The SS surplus has been invested in government bonds, but as that money is converted to bonds the government can (and has) use it as any other type of money flowing in. The SS fund is currently at a $4-5T surplus, which has gone on at the same time that the rest of the government has run a $17T deficit.

The problem is NOT social security.

Al Gore's plan about the lockbox was to utilize surpluses to explicitly pay down the national debt and hold bonds evenly. That was to him, and anyone with a brain, a better solution than to give back massive tax cuts against the projected surplus while future solvency was not assured.

This is already bordering on P&N, but we could also discuss in great depth the idea of government spending in general, taxation, and deficits.

 

[1sikbITCH]

You cannot opt out.

You can absolutely opt out. People collecting welfare opt out. Drug dealers opt out. Drug dealers collecting welfare opt out. Omar used to rob the drug dealers; he opted out. Under the table workers opt out. Don't file your taxes? Opting out. Go to prison for not filing taxes? Opting out. :biggrin:

This gentleman pays nothing at all into Social Security, preferring other means of supporting himself, and look how happy he is! He's shittin pretty!

 

[Darwin333]

It isn't a retirement plan it's a tax. You don't get to just opt out of taxes if you value your money and freedom.

 

[Darwin333]

SS funds have always been invested in government bonds where they earn the prevailing interest rate on those bonds. If the government simply put the money under a mattress even the meager interest earned on government bonds would be lost to the plan. Building a cash hoard in the SS fund benefits no one. Al Gore's lockbox was a dumb idea.

You do realize that "WE" pay back the interest right? It's like taking money out of your left pocket and sticking it in your right pocket and thinking you got richer. ALL of the profit came from US paying the money back, with interest, that we borrowed from US.

 

[IronWing]

You do realize that "WE" pay back the interest right? It's like taking money out of your left pocket and sticking it in your right pocket and thinking you got richer. ALL of the profit came from US paying the money back, with interest, that we borrowed from US.

"WE" also have use of the funds in the meantime. If we did not use the funds, there would be no reason to pay interest as the money would not be at risk, other than being at even higher inflation risk than being invested in government bonds. It would also be strongly deflationary for the SS fund to hoard that much cash. No one thinks we're getting richer through the scheme. There aren't a lot of options and still have a SS program. If we invest the funds in equities or commercial bonds then the SSA will end up dominating the markets and suffer losses at exactly the same time that all other investments are tanking, not a recipe for stability in retirement.

 

[Sonikku]

Social Security is the kind of thing that would work great in Germany or Denmark.

 

[futurefields]

You can absolutely opt out. People collecting welfare opt out. Drug dealers opt out. Drug dealers collecting welfare opt out. Omar used to rob the drug dealers; he opted out. Under the table workers opt out. Don't file your taxes? Opting out. Go to prison for not filing taxes? Opting out. :biggrin:

This gentleman pays nothing at all into Social Security, preferring other means of supporting himself, and look how happy he is! He's shittin pretty!

lmao store burning down and this dude grab angelsoft

atleast go for that quilted bro

 

[Nograts]

You do realize that "WE" pay back the interest right? It's like taking money out of your left pocket and sticking it in your right pocket and thinking you got richer. ALL of the profit came from US paying the money back, with interest, that we borrowed from US.

Why not put all those billions of dollars into like...an S&P500 fund. Down year? No money for this year. Great year? Here's your share.

Makes people not expect to be spoon fed their whole life.

 

[sportage]

Social security has been in trouble before and they always fix it one way or another.
I'd assume raising the retirement age would be one possible solution, which I disagree with.
And I was shocked that a lot of people do not realize the currently retirement age is actually 66, not 65 as many believe.
Aw, the little sneaks snuck that one by us, didn't they?

There is a lot that can be done about SS.
Raise the age to 68 or 69, limit or eliminate retirement benefits for the high income, and weigh collecting ss against those also collecting a pension.
Where ss benefits would be reduced when also collecting a company pension.

But the cost for maintaining ones private ss account is less than 1%.
Where as, if ss were turned over to the wall street, those fees would eat up all of your retirement far before retirement age.
Wall street would just L O V E to get their hands on all that government ss retirement cash.
Oh the fees they could rake in.

Don't give up on ss just yet.
And question the intensions of those that would seek to privatize ss, while also telling you ss is doomed.
A lot can be done, and no doubt will be done.
Just keep the vultures from privatizing it.
Because that will truly be the end of all retirement.
Hi. Im Ralph. Im your drive-thru host. Im 95. And would you like fries with that?
(or)
Welcome to Walmart. If I can just get my pace maker going, I will direct you to the shoe department.

 

[JTsyo]

Why not put all those billions of dollars into like...an S&P500 fund. Down year? No money for this year. Great year? Here's your share.

Makes people not expect to be spoon fed their whole life.

Since the people aren't paid from the trust fund. That fund is the from excess taxes collected. So say they collect $100 million this year and pay out $90 million, then $10 million go into the fund. What you're paying now is mostly being used now, not being saved for your retirement.

 

[BurnItDwn]

lifespans will get shorter thanks to our high calorie foods that never seem to make us feel full and our desk jobs.

problem will solve itself due to bigger problem of health crisis.

 

[edro]

lifespans will get shorter thanks to our high calorie foods that never seem to make us feel full and our desk jobs.
problem will solve itself due to bigger problem of health crisis.

But those lives will cost a lot more to treat in later life due to medications and cancer treatment.

 

[midwestfisherman]

Look like you'll be buying less beer than you thought.

 

[runzwithsizorz]

But those lives will cost a lot more to treat in later life due to medications and cancer treatment.

"TREAT"??? pish-posh, with obamacare death panels, it will be 2 100 dollar aspirine's and call me dead in the morning. :whiste:

 

[SearchMaster]

Why not put all those billions of dollars into like...an S&P500 fund. Down year? No money for this year. Great year? Here's your share.

Makes people not expect to be spoon fed their whole life.

Your last line is the only one that makes sense here. Think about it a minute - most retirees are living on a combination of investment income and SS. So if there's a down year in the market, either they continue to draw from their investment and their net investment goes down which will dramatically lower payouts in future years, or they draw less from their investment and adjust their budget accordingly. However, now they're getting nothing from SS as well so they have no choice on their primary retirement investment.

And think of the political ramifications if the Fed begins investing (publicly) into corporations. Democrats will actively campaign that Republican-leaning companies should not benefit from tax dollars, and Republicans will do the same for Democrat-leaning companies.

I like the idea in principle...even better, allow people to partially opt out of SS but REQUIRE them to make up the difference with private retirement investments. This takes the political angle out of play, stimulates the economy, requires people to actually think about where their money goes, and allows weaning people off SS. However it decreases the overall govt income, and makes sense in the process, so it could never happen.

 

[ElFenix]

Why not put all those billions of dollars into like...an S&P500 fund. Down year? No money for this year. Great year? Here's your share.

Makes people not expect to be spoon fed their whole life.

right now there aren't any billions in surplus collected anymore. there's no surplus, social security is currently spending down its trust fund:

the trust fund itself is nothing more than an IOU from congress. converting that IOU to cash to buy stocks with would cause massive asset inflation as the first result (which would be a massive windfall to people holding S&P500). that'd probably be followed up with massive inflation in the real economy as people cashing out spend their windfall.