Social Security

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: zendari
I guess I could be a liberal and steal from hard working citizens.

I'll bet Ive contributed much more in my 18 years of working (since I was 18) than you have in your 18 years of being alive. Troll on ..

Then I guess you dont want unproductive individuals taking your tax dollars.

Don't put your words in my mouth. There are unproductive citizens (with disabilities, etc) and those who are no longer productive (the elderly) who are perfectly entiltled, and those who are partially productive like myself (I still pay income and property taxes). This isn't my opinion, but law, try not paying your fica and see what happens.

No matter how much you hate or fight it America will go more and more socialist as time goes on, it comes with being a modern society. Just look at the first characteristics of civialization, people starting caring for the sick, weak, and elderly and worked as a community. Personally I am not barbaric enough to go back and neitehr is America.

You ask the 85% of Americans who don't have pensions if they want SS to go away?
You constantly claim that we need an absolutely free market, well with a free market comes corporations that no longer care about their employees (following current trends). You always bitch about unions, but they are the enities that forced corpoate responsibilty in the first place.

I really feel for you if you are happy with a country that has 15% of the population with pensions, and a potential to have no social support system. Again, hopefully for your sake I hope your views will change (if even a little) with some maturity.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: zendari
I guess I could be a liberal and steal from hard working citizens.

I'll bet Ive contributed much more in my 18 years of working (since I was 18) than you have in your 18 years of being alive. Troll on ..

Then I guess you dont want unproductive individuals taking your tax dollars.

Don't put your words in my mouth. There are unproductive citizens (with disabilities, etc) and those who are no longer productive (the elderly) who are perfectly entiltled, and those who are partially productive like myself (I still pay income and property taxes). This isn't my opinion, but law, try not paying your fica and see what happens.

No matter how much you hate or fight it America will go more and more socialist as time goes on, it comes with being a modern society. Just look at the first characteristics of civialization, people starting caring for the sick, weak, and elderly and worked as a community. Personally I am not barbaric enough to go back and neitehr is America.

You ask the 85% of Americans who don't have pensions if they want SS to go away?
You constantly claim that we need an absolutely free market, well with a free market comes corporations that no longer care about their employees (following current trends). You always bitch about unions, but they are the enities that forced corpoate responsibilty in the first place.

I really feel for you if you are happy with a country that has 15% of the population with pensions, and a potential to have no social support system. Again, hopefully for your sake I hope your views will change (if even a little) with some maturity.

You can essentially have the best of both worlds with a privatized SS system. Then your SS could be passed onto your children/grandchildren/anybody you want. We obviously need to force people to save (our savings rate is negative) but having it 100% invested in the government is a horrible plan considering their record for saving money.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: zendari
I guess I could be a liberal and steal from hard working citizens.

I'll bet Ive contributed much more in my 18 years of working (since I was 18) than you have in your 18 years of being alive. Troll on ..

Then I guess you dont want unproductive individuals taking your tax dollars.

Don't put your words in my mouth. There are unproductive citizens (with disabilities, etc) and those who are no longer productive (the elderly) who are perfectly entiltled, and those who are partially productive like myself (I still pay income and property taxes). This isn't my opinion, but law, try not paying your fica and see what happens.

No matter how much you hate or fight it America will go more and more socialist as time goes on, it comes with being a modern society. Just look at the first characteristics of civialization, people starting caring for the sick, weak, and elderly and worked as a community. Personally I am not barbaric enough to go back and neitehr is America.

You ask the 85% of Americans who don't have pensions if they want SS to go away?
You constantly claim that we need an absolutely free market, well with a free market comes corporations that no longer care about their employees (following current trends). You always bitch about unions, but they are the enities that forced corpoate responsibilty in the first place.

I really feel for you if you are happy with a country that has 15% of the population with pensions, and a potential to have no social support system. Again, hopefully for your sake I hope your views will change (if even a little) with some maturity.

You can essentially have the best of both worlds with a privatized SS system. Then your SS could be passed onto your children/grandchildren/anybody you want. We obviously need to force people to save (our savings rate is negative) but having it 100% invested in the government is a horrible plan considering their record for saving money.

I'm not ging to say eventually privitizing SS would be bad, but the plan Bush put forth wouldn't be enough. Heck, Bush would probably be happy to be the president known for breaking SS.

Now on savings, in order to save you must have enough disposable income, which unfortuanatly alot don't have. When the economy tanked alot of people (including myself) had to look for other work and took a major paycut. Fortunately I have been able to put some money away, starting an account for my son, as well as avoiding credit cards. But the only thing I have towards retirement is one duplex, which I guess is better than nothing.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: zendari
I guess I could be a liberal and steal from hard working citizens.

I'll bet Ive contributed much more in my 18 years of working (since I was 18) than you have in your 18 years of being alive. Troll on ..

Then I guess you dont want unproductive individuals taking your tax dollars.

Don't put your words in my mouth. There are unproductive citizens (with disabilities, etc) and those who are no longer productive (the elderly) who are perfectly entiltled, and those who are partially productive like myself (I still pay income and property taxes). This isn't my opinion, but law, try not paying your fica and see what happens.

No matter how much you hate or fight it America will go more and more socialist as time goes on, it comes with being a modern society. Just look at the first characteristics of civialization, people starting caring for the sick, weak, and elderly and worked as a community. Personally I am not barbaric enough to go back and neitehr is America.

You ask the 85% of Americans who don't have pensions if they want SS to go away?
You constantly claim that we need an absolutely free market, well with a free market comes corporations that no longer care about their employees (following current trends). You always bitch about unions, but they are the enities that forced corpoate responsibilty in the first place.

I really feel for you if you are happy with a country that has 15% of the population with pensions, and a potential to have no social support system. Again, hopefully for your sake I hope your views will change (if even a little) with some maturity.

You can essentially have the best of both worlds with a privatized SS system. Then your SS could be passed onto your children/grandchildren/anybody you want. We obviously need to force people to save (our savings rate is negative) but having it 100% invested in the government is a horrible plan considering their record for saving money.

I'm not ging to say eventually privitizing SS would be bad, but the plan Bush put forth wouldn't be enough. Heck, Bush would probably be happy to be the president known for breaking SS.

I think it was a start. Unfortunately he put one restriction on there that really shouldn't have been: no increase in taxes. If you're trying to fix a system and get the best results, you don't put restrictions on the outcome because the outcome that you get after the restriction might not be the best.

That being said, the plan that the committee came out with is a heck of a lot better than the soon to be bankrupt SS.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
No matter how much you hate or fight it America will go more and more socialist as time goes on, it comes with being a modern society. Just look at the first characteristics of civialization, people starting caring for the sick, weak, and elderly and worked as a community. Personally I am not barbaric enough to go back and neitehr is America.

You ask the 85% of Americans who don't have pensions if they want SS to go away?
You constantly claim that we need an absolutely free market, well with a free market comes corporations that no longer care about their employees (following current trends). You always bitch about unions, but they are the enities that forced corpoate responsibilty in the first place.

I really feel for you if you are happy with a country that has 15% of the population with pensions, and a potential to have no social support system. Again, hopefully for your sake I hope your views will change (if even a little) with some maturity.

Socialism will be the downfall of this country. Already SS and Medicare are loading huge burdens on todays working poor.

Corporations have no more reason to care about their employees than employees do to care about their corporations. All unions do is create an artificial monopoly increasing the price of their service, and thus, reducing the consumption of such service, putting people in unemployment.

I love how liberals think people are entitled to pensions. What, is that money growing on trees? :laugh:

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
No matter how much you hate or fight it America will go more and more socialist as time goes on, it comes with being a modern society. Just look at the first characteristics of civialization, people starting caring for the sick, weak, and elderly and worked as a community. Personally I am not barbaric enough to go back and neitehr is America.

You ask the 85% of Americans who don't have pensions if they want SS to go away?
You constantly claim that we need an absolutely free market, well with a free market comes corporations that no longer care about their employees (following current trends). You always bitch about unions, but they are the enities that forced corpoate responsibilty in the first place.

I really feel for you if you are happy with a country that has 15% of the population with pensions, and a potential to have no social support system. Again, hopefully for your sake I hope your views will change (if even a little) with some maturity.

Socialism will be the downfall of this country. Already SS and Medicare are loading huge burdens on todays working poor.

Corporations have no more reason to care about their employees than employees do to care about their corporations. All unions do is create an artificial monopoly increasing the price of their service, and thus, reducing the consumption of such service, putting people in unemployment.

I love how liberals think people are entitled to pensions. What, is that money growing on trees? :laugh:

they tend to believe that breathing entitles everyone to alot more than just pensions...

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
No matter how much you hate or fight it America will go more and more socialist as time goes on, it comes with being a modern society. Just look at the first characteristics of civialization, people starting caring for the sick, weak, and elderly and worked as a community. Personally I am not barbaric enough to go back and neitehr is America.

You ask the 85% of Americans who don't have pensions if they want SS to go away?
You constantly claim that we need an absolutely free market, well with a free market comes corporations that no longer care about their employees (following current trends). You always bitch about unions, but they are the enities that forced corpoate responsibilty in the first place.

I really feel for you if you are happy with a country that has 15% of the population with pensions, and a potential to have no social support system. Again, hopefully for your sake I hope your views will change (if even a little) with some maturity.

Socialism will be the downfall of this country. Already SS and Medicare are loading huge burdens on todays working poor.

Corporations have no more reason to care about their employees than employees do to care about their corporations. All unions do is create an artificial monopoly increasing the price of their service, and thus, reducing the consumption of such service, putting people in unemployment.

I love how liberals think people are entitled to pensions. What, is that money growing on trees? :laugh:

I love how asshat NeoCons like you think employers OWN their employees and have no responsibilty to them except to use them up and spit them out without so much as a Thanks You.

You can (and will) go to HELL.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
No matter how much you hate or fight it America will go more and more socialist as time goes on, it comes with being a modern society. Just look at the first characteristics of civialization, people starting caring for the sick, weak, and elderly and worked as a community. Personally I am not barbaric enough to go back and neitehr is America.

You ask the 85% of Americans who don't have pensions if they want SS to go away?
You constantly claim that we need an absolutely free market, well with a free market comes corporations that no longer care about their employees (following current trends). You always bitch about unions, but they are the enities that forced corpoate responsibilty in the first place.

I really feel for you if you are happy with a country that has 15% of the population with pensions, and a potential to have no social support system. Again, hopefully for your sake I hope your views will change (if even a little) with some maturity.

Socialism will be the downfall of this country. Already SS and Medicare are loading huge burdens on todays working poor.

Corporations have no more reason to care about their employees than employees do to care about their corporations. All unions do is create an artificial monopoly increasing the price of their service, and thus, reducing the consumption of such service, putting people in unemployment.

I love how liberals think people are entitled to pensions. What, is that money growing on trees? :laugh:

Neo cons have done much more to damage this country than SS and medicare. Believe whatever you want, but fortunately the neo con way seems to be coming to an end.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
No matter how much you hate or fight it America will go more and more socialist as time goes on, it comes with being a modern society. Just look at the first characteristics of civialization, people starting caring for the sick, weak, and elderly and worked as a community. Personally I am not barbaric enough to go back and neitehr is America.

You ask the 85% of Americans who don't have pensions if they want SS to go away?
You constantly claim that we need an absolutely free market, well with a free market comes corporations that no longer care about their employees (following current trends). You always bitch about unions, but they are the enities that forced corpoate responsibilty in the first place.

I really feel for you if you are happy with a country that has 15% of the population with pensions, and a potential to have no social support system. Again, hopefully for your sake I hope your views will change (if even a little) with some maturity.

Socialism will be the downfall of this country. Already SS and Medicare are loading huge burdens on todays working poor.

Corporations have no more reason to care about their employees than employees do to care about their corporations. All unions do is create an artificial monopoly increasing the price of their service, and thus, reducing the consumption of such service, putting people in unemployment.

I love how liberals think people are entitled to pensions. What, is that money growing on trees? :laugh:

they tend to believe that breathing entitles everyone to alot more than just pensions...

And you believe you can talk your way into or out pof anything. Clue: The only people who believe you are yourself and other idiots of your ilk.

 

[Uhtrinity]

"That being said, the plan that the committee came out with is a heck of a lot better than the soon to be bankrupt SS. "

We wouldn't be in this postion is SS wasn't part of the general fund ..... Gore had it right when he talked about a lock box (even though it sounds corny).

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
No matter how much you hate or fight it America will go more and more socialist as time goes on, it comes with being a modern society. Just look at the first characteristics of civialization, people starting caring for the sick, weak, and elderly and worked as a community. Personally I am not barbaric enough to go back and neitehr is America.

You ask the 85% of Americans who don't have pensions if they want SS to go away?
You constantly claim that we need an absolutely free market, well with a free market comes corporations that no longer care about their employees (following current trends). You always bitch about unions, but they are the enities that forced corpoate responsibilty in the first place.

I really feel for you if you are happy with a country that has 15% of the population with pensions, and a potential to have no social support system. Again, hopefully for your sake I hope your views will change (if even a little) with some maturity.

Socialism will be the downfall of this country. Already SS and Medicare are loading huge burdens on todays working poor.

Corporations have no more reason to care about their employees than employees do to care about their corporations. All unions do is create an artificial monopoly increasing the price of their service, and thus, reducing the consumption of such service, putting people in unemployment.

I love how liberals think people are entitled to pensions. What, is that money growing on trees? :laugh:

Well if the corporations want people working for them, they'll treat the workers decently. Nobody wants to work for a company that treats them like sh!t. So sure, people aren't entitled to pensions but I know I and many others would rather work for a company that helped provide for us when we're older than one that told us to fvck off when we retire.

 

[palehorse]

woot! time for them to start calling us names again! I love this part! pure comedy gold...

GG!

ps: I work for a large corp and they treat me very well ! as a matter of fact, i'd say that most of my fellow employees feel the same. good stuff! Maybe some of you have a dark cloud following you around that causes all of your negativity...? hmm...

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
No matter how much you hate or fight it America will go more and more socialist as time goes on, it comes with being a modern society. Just look at the first characteristics of civialization, people starting caring for the sick, weak, and elderly and worked as a community. Personally I am not barbaric enough to go back and neitehr is America.

You ask the 85% of Americans who don't have pensions if they want SS to go away?
You constantly claim that we need an absolutely free market, well with a free market comes corporations that no longer care about their employees (following current trends). You always bitch about unions, but they are the enities that forced corpoate responsibilty in the first place.

I really feel for you if you are happy with a country that has 15% of the population with pensions, and a potential to have no social support system. Again, hopefully for your sake I hope your views will change (if even a little) with some maturity.

Socialism will be the downfall of this country. Already SS and Medicare are loading huge burdens on todays working poor.

Corporations have no more reason to care about their employees than employees do to care about their corporations. All unions do is create an artificial monopoly increasing the price of their service, and thus, reducing the consumption of such service, putting people in unemployment.

I love how liberals think people are entitled to pensions. What, is that money growing on trees? :laugh:

Uh....SS and Medicare are what keep the working poor from becoming completely destitute once they are of retirement age or experience expensive medical problems.

The downfall will be from corporate welfare and abuse and greed by corporate execs and politicians. Medical costs are increasing at about 3-4x the pace of inflation. How is someone making at or slightly above minimum wage supposed to stay healthy? The government created a monster, unwittingly, in Medicare/Medicaid but it's only because greed has turned those into mega-trillion dollar obligations of the government.

Also, the cost of those obligations wouldn't be such a burden on our economy if there were more people working than were retiring. We're seeing the baby boomers hit retirement age while the workforce dwindles. One day it will flip back around and we'll be fat and happy.

As for the rest of your idiotic rant, wtf are you doing bringing unions into this? And where has anyone said pensions are an "entitlement"?

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
woot! time for them to start calling us names again! I love this part! pure comedy gold...

Uh, the term "idiot" applies rather appropriately to someone that posts email spam as some gospel truth without having realized that EVERYTHING in said email spam is total BS.

 

[Uhtrinity]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
woot! time for them to start calling us names again! I love this part! pure comedy gold...

GG!

ps: I work for a large corp and they treat me very well ! as a matter of fact, i'd say that most of my fellow employees feel the same. good stuff! Maybe some of you have a dark cloud following you around that causes all of your negativity...? hmm...

Name calling? I saw 'Liberal" being thrown a few times, and I used Neo Con ... Not really name calling.

And it is good to know that you are probably among the 15% with a pension (assuming you work for the goverment or a contractor).

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
"That being said, the plan that the committee came out with is a heck of a lot better than the soon to be bankrupt SS. "

We wouldn't be in this postion is SS wasn't part of the general fund ..... Gore had it right when he talked about a lock box (even though it sounds corny).

Then our deficit would be a couple hunder billion higher each year. You also have the problem of taking hundreds of billions of dollars out of the economy each year (not good in a recession). Also that doesn't help much come 2042 or so when the money we saved runs out. Then we'll be forced to cut benefits, raise taxes, raise the age of retirement, or more likely a comination of all three. Either way, everyone is going to be hurting by that time.

You wouldn't have that problem if it was privitized (or at least partially). The longer privitization goes on, the cheaper SS becomes and the more we can privitize it. With privitization people actually own their retirement and you also provide a boost to businesses which will hire more labor with the increased funds they would get.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: zendari
Socialism will be the downfall of this country. Already SS and Medicare are loading huge burdens on todays working poor.

Corporations have no more reason to care about their employees than employees do to care about their corporations. All unions do is create an artificial monopoly increasing the price of their service, and thus, reducing the consumption of such service, putting people in unemployment.

I love how liberals think people are entitled to pensions. What, is that money growing on trees? :laugh:

I love how asshat NeoCons like you think employers OWN their employees and have no responsibilty to them except to use them up and spit them out without so much as a Thanks You.

You can (and will) go to HELL.

How many Thank Yous is the employer getting, other than PayDay?

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
No matter how much you hate or fight it America will go more and more socialist as time goes on, it comes with being a modern society. Just look at the first characteristics of civialization, people starting caring for the sick, weak, and elderly and worked as a community. Personally I am not barbaric enough to go back and neitehr is America.

You ask the 85% of Americans who don't have pensions if they want SS to go away?
You constantly claim that we need an absolutely free market, well with a free market comes corporations that no longer care about their employees (following current trends). You always bitch about unions, but they are the enities that forced corpoate responsibilty in the first place.

I really feel for you if you are happy with a country that has 15% of the population with pensions, and a potential to have no social support system. Again, hopefully for your sake I hope your views will change (if even a little) with some maturity.

Socialism will be the downfall of this country. Already SS and Medicare are loading huge burdens on todays working poor.

Corporations have no more reason to care about their employees than employees do to care about their corporations. All unions do is create an artificial monopoly increasing the price of their service, and thus, reducing the consumption of such service, putting people in unemployment.

I love how liberals think people are entitled to pensions. What, is that money growing on trees? :laugh:

Neo cons have done much more to damage this country than SS and medicare. Believe whatever you want, but fortunately the neo con way seems to be coming to an end.

Where are the neocons that have created $68.1 trillion in future liabilities that Is Medicare?

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: Uhtrinity
No matter how much you hate or fight it America will go more and more socialist as time goes on, it comes with being a modern society. Just look at the first characteristics of civialization, people starting caring for the sick, weak, and elderly and worked as a community. Personally I am not barbaric enough to go back and neitehr is America.

You ask the 85% of Americans who don't have pensions if they want SS to go away?
You constantly claim that we need an absolutely free market, well with a free market comes corporations that no longer care about their employees (following current trends). You always bitch about unions, but they are the enities that forced corpoate responsibilty in the first place.

I really feel for you if you are happy with a country that has 15% of the population with pensions, and a potential to have no social support system. Again, hopefully for your sake I hope your views will change (if even a little) with some maturity.

Socialism will be the downfall of this country. Already SS and Medicare are loading huge burdens on todays working poor.

Corporations have no more reason to care about their employees than employees do to care about their corporations. All unions do is create an artificial monopoly increasing the price of their service, and thus, reducing the consumption of such service, putting people in unemployment.

I love how liberals think people are entitled to pensions. What, is that money growing on trees? :laugh:

Well if the corporations want people working for them, they'll treat the workers decently. Nobody wants to work for a company that treats them like sh!t. So sure, people aren't entitled to pensions but I know I and many others would rather work for a company that helped provide for us when we're older than one that told us to fvck off when we retire.

Then you are free to choose a company that is willing to offer a pension.

 

[piasabird]

With many companies there is no real pension. It is only there on paper. There is no fund set up for you pension and it could disappear tomorrow or whenever the company is purchased or goes bankrupt.

 

[Cooler]

They need to get rid of it . I hate having chunk of my pay check going in there when there is a good chance i will never see it when a get to 65.

 

[palehorse]

I want 100% control of all of my money. I want a flat federal tax % for everyone, everywhere. I want the IRS dismantled and rebuilt from scratch to support the simple new flat taxes.

I wish to be 100% responsible for my own retirement funding. If I somehow blow it all and plan badly, then too damn bad for me.

None of these things will happen with a Deomocratic administration. No Democrat in office believes that the people know better than the government in terms of planning for the future and spending our own money how/where/why we wish.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I want 100% control of all of my money. I want a flat federal tax % for everyone, everywhere. I want the IRS dismantled and rebuilt from scratch to support the simple new flat taxes.

I wish to be 100% responsible for my own retirement funding. If I somehow blow it all and plan badly, then too damn bad for me.

But instead, you should be wishing for a brain. Ahh, the things we don't know we are missing...

You're not going to get it, and you're going to have to live with it. In the meantime, I suggest going back to high school (or maybe middle school) to read some history books, in order to find out why it is that you're wrong.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I want 100% control of all of my money. I want a flat federal tax % for everyone, everywhere. I want the IRS dismantled and rebuilt from scratch to support the simple new flat taxes.

I wish to be 100% responsible for my own retirement funding. If I somehow blow it all and plan badly, then too damn bad for me.

None of these things will happen with a Deomocratic administration. No Democrat in office believes that the people know better than the government in terms of planning for the future and spending our own money how/where/why we wish.

That's not necessarily the best for the economy. Most people are financial morons, why else would they think current SS is perfectly fine and the reason we have a negative savings rate. There needs to be some direction but definitely less than there is now.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Meuge

Originally posted by: palehorse74
I want 100% control of all of my money. I want a flat federal tax % for everyone, everywhere. I want the IRS dismantled and rebuilt from scratch to support the simple new flat taxes.

I wish to be 100% responsible for my own retirement funding. If I somehow blow it all and plan badly, then too damn bad for me.

But instead, you should be wishing for a brain. Ahh, the things we don't know we are missing...

You're not going to get it, and you're going to have to live with it. In the meantime, I suggest going back to high school (or maybe middle school) to read some history books, in order to find out why it is that you're wrong.

sadly, you're right. I know that it wont happen. it's about as likely as the Utopia that you dream about. Fact is, I'm smart enough to compensate and plan ahead so that I'll be successful either way. While each of those changes would be cause for celebration, I am realistic to know that too many liberals stand in the way of progress.

but ty again for yet another personal attack... keep them coming! woot!