Social Security

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
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I have not had time to investigate this yet so correct me where I am wrong... provide references please.

In 1995 one of President Clinton's campaign points was fixing Social Security. Of course, nothing was done. Since President Clinton never mentioned it after the elections I will presume that he had more important matters to attend to.

Eight years later and without any changes made the democrats say nothing is wrong with Social Security and attack President Bush for suggesting otherwise. They ridicule his plan to improve Social Security.

We can understand the reluctance of the democrats, and even some republicans, to give up control of "their" money (President Clinton's words, not mine). Since they absconded with the SSN funds so many decades ago for use in the "general" fund.

The "mainstream" media has consistently stated that most of America is against doing anything with the system.

Basically the plan President Bush is proposing would all individuals the OPTION of allocating up to 4% of what is paid into the system into a personal "savings" account. The money in this account would be part of the individuals estate and would be given to survivors upon their death.

The democratic leadership says that people can't handle their own money much less the Governments money and are against it. Of course, for this to be true the citizens of Galveston, Texas and Argentina would have to be more intelligent (about investing) than the average person.

The children of black males would be particularly helped by the estate feature. That is, if the study that suggests the average black male recoups very little of the funds they paid into the system because the average life expectancy is only 69. The mainstream media and democratic leaders do counter that IF a black male lives to 69 that they are likely to out live white males. I'm sure the children of those that die younger are comoforted by that fact. Some say these numbers are skewed because of the violence the black youths tend to be involved with. I can only say that statistics, while important, can lie.

So, recently a couple of polls were conducted. 56% of Americans are in favor of President Bushes plan. That is, until they hear the plan by other than the mainstream media and the democratic leaders. 84% of that group is in favor of his plan!

Remember, the President's plan gives everyone choices. They can stay fully in the current system or they can put some of the money into their own retirement account and manage it themselves.

Oops. Now, the democratic leadership realizes they are in trouble. So, they come up with a plan. With their plan everyone MUST have a retirement account which is managed by, who else, the Government.

Suddenly a private retirement account is a good thing. The democratic leadership still doesn't want individuals to have choices or control. At least they are consistent on some issues.
 
May 10, 2001
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RvB;
"the only reason we have a base over here is because they have a base over there, and the only reason they have a base over there is because we've got a base over here!"

don't worry about what's "good" for america, just worry about what's good for your team colour.

how else do you decide which drazi should be in charge?
 

randym431

Golden Member
Jun 4, 2003
1,270
1
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In 1995 one of President Clinton's campaign points was fixing Social Security. Of course, nothing was done.

Not true. Congress DID fix it. Thats why its now solid until some 2045 (46?).
All it needs now, is another small "fix" to carry it thru 2070.

We can understand the reluctance of the democrats, and even some republicans, to give up control of "their" money

What he was talking about is the practice of congress to take (use, borrow) from the fund, playing the old shell game with the SS money and budget.

Fox news = What a great source of misinformation!
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
The only real problem facing SS is the potential inability of the govt to meet the responsibilities of paying back the SS trust in a timely manner. That problem is exacerbated and intensified by the ongoing fiscal flimflamery coming from the Republican Whitehouse and Republican Congress. Their "solutions" are merely more of the same, a desperate attempt to continue the looting, providing for the ongoing and explosive transfer of wealth and income to the very top echelons.

How can we "save" any program by cutting its revenue stream by 1/3, or 1/2?

How can we correct huge deficit spending by borrowing more money to cover the difference?

When advocates of the President's "Plan" provide some answers to these very basic common sense questions, then they'll have arrived at making sense. Until that day comes, they're just pumpin' sunshine up your skirt, darlin'. If you like it, that's fine, but you need to understand what it really is, and why they're doing it... It's not about "you", or what you want or need, it's about them... it's about power, greed, and deception, about accepting the promises of obvious charlatans and conmen, thieves of the highest order...
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
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Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The only real problem facing SS is the potential inability of the govt to meet the responsibilities of paying back the SS trust in a timely manner. That problem is exacerbated and intensified by the ongoing fiscal flimflamery coming from the Republican Whitehouse and Republican Congress. Their "solutions" are merely more of the same, a desperate attempt to continue the looting, providing for the ongoing and explosive transfer of wealth and income to the very top echelons.

How can we "save" any program by cutting its revenue stream by 1/3, or 1/2?

How can we correct huge deficit spending by borrowing more money to cover the difference?

When advocates of the President's "Plan" provide some answers to these very basic common sense questions, then they'll have arrived at making sense. Until that day comes, they're just pumpin' sunshine up your skirt, darlin'. If you like it, that's fine, but you need to understand what it really is, and why they're doing it... It's not about "you", or what you want or need, it's about them... it's about power, greed, and deception, about accepting the promises of obvious charlatans and conmen, thieves of the highest order...

Bingo!

Republicans are supposed to be the "Ownership" party... well boys, you OWN this.
 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
939
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Originally posted by: SuperTool
http://www.pollingreport.com/social.htm
American people don't seem to agree with you, unless you believe FoxNews.

Thanks for the link.

[edited because i misread the first question]
That poll shows only 57% know that putting money into a private savings account would be optional.

That same poll shows that 84% (under 55) agree with the Presidents plan and 79% of everyone agree with his plan.


 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: ExpertNovice
Originally posted by: SuperTool
http://www.pollingreport.com/social.htm
American people don't seem to agree with you, unless you believe FoxNews.
Thanks for the link.

That poll shows that 27% agree with the Democratic plan but 57% disagree.

That same poll shows that 84% (under 55) agree with the Presidents plan and 79% of everyone agree with his plan.
You'd make a great commentator on FOX. Where does that poll show 84% support the President's plan? The President has to have a plan before it can be supported. And, btw, you happened to pick the numbers from the FOX poll. Interesting you would do that and ignore the other polls showing a trend toward disapproval of private accounts.
 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
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0
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The only real problem facing SS is the potential inability of the govt to meet the responsibilities of paying back the SS trust in a timely manner. That problem is exacerbated and intensified by the ongoing fiscal flimflamery coming from the Republican Whitehouse and Republican Congress. Their "solutions" are merely more of the same, a desperate attempt to continue the looting, providing for the ongoing and explosive transfer of wealth and income to the very top echelons.

How can we "save" any program by cutting its revenue stream by 1/3, or 1/2?

How can we correct huge deficit spending by borrowing more money to cover the difference?

When advocates of the President's "Plan" provide some answers to these very basic common sense questions, then they'll have arrived at making sense. Until that day comes, they're just pumpin' sunshine up your skirt, darlin'. If you like it, that's fine, but you need to understand what it really is, and why they're doing it... It's not about "you", or what you want or need, it's about them... it's about power, greed, and deception, about accepting the promises of obvious charlatans and conmen, thieves of the highest order...

What about that little detial of when I go to retire the benifits will be slashed and having to pay increased taxes? Or is that not a problem because you will arealdy have gotten yours?
 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
939
0
0
Originally posted by: randym431
In 1995 one of President Clinton's campaign points was fixing Social Security. Of course, nothing was done.

Not true. Congress DID fix it. Thats why its now solid until some 2045 (46?).
All it needs now, is another small "fix" to carry it thru 2070.

We can understand the reluctance of the democrats, and even some republicans, to give up control of "their" money

What he was talking about is the practice of congress to take (use, borrow) from the fund, playing the old shell game with the SS money and budget.

Fox news = What a great source of misinformation!




Originally posted by: randym431
In 1995 one of President Clinton's campaign points was fixing Social Security. Of course, nothing was done.

Not true. Congress DID fix it. Thats why its now solid until some 2045 (46?).
All it needs now, is another small "fix" to carry it thru 2070.

We can understand the reluctance of the democrats, and even some republicans, to give up control of "their" money

What he was talking about is the practice of congress to take (use, borrow) from the fund, playing the old shell game with the SS money and budget.

Fox news = What a great source of misinformation!


Actually, everytime I heard President Clinton refer to our money he was talking against tax refunds and reduction. Specifically he considers the source of all wealth to be emanating from the Government (which is true in a Communist state but not in a Fascist or Capitalistic state). Thus, reducing taxes was considered to be giving away more of their money.

Fox news. I assume you were being satirical. :) If not, which of the quetions in the poll did you think was misinformation? That only 57% know that putting money into a private savings account would be optional or that 84% of those under 55 would like the option to put money into a private savings account?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: ExpertNovice
Originally posted by: SuperTool
http://www.pollingreport.com/social.htm
American people don't seem to agree with you, unless you believe FoxNews.

Thanks for the link.

[edited because i misread the first question]
That poll shows only 57% know that putting money into a private savings account would be optional.

That same poll shows that 84% (under 55) agree with the Presidents plan and 79% of everyone agree with his plan.

OK, what is the name of the Republicans that put up that website?

Notice there is no About info on that bogus site anywhere.
 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
939
0
0
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The only real problem facing SS is the potential inability of the govt to meet the responsibilities of paying back the SS trust in a timely manner. That problem is exacerbated and intensified by the ongoing fiscal flimflamery coming from the Republican Whitehouse and Republican Congress. Their "solutions" are merely more of the same, a desperate attempt to continue the looting, providing for the ongoing and explosive transfer of wealth and income to the very top echelons.

How can we "save" any program by cutting its revenue stream by 1/3, or 1/2?

How can we correct huge deficit spending by borrowing more money to cover the difference?

When advocates of the President's "Plan" provide some answers to these very basic common sense questions, then they'll have arrived at making sense. Until that day comes, they're just pumpin' sunshine up your skirt, darlin'. If you like it, that's fine, but you need to understand what it really is, and why they're doing it... It's not about "you", or what you want or need, it's about them... it's about power, greed, and deception, about accepting the promises of obvious charlatans and conmen, thieves of the highest order...

Once the democrats started using the money for their general fund the social security system became unstable. As long as the baby boomers are working the retirees will receive some social security benefits. Once the baby boomers retire there will not be enough workers to give the same level of benefits. Fixes will require higher taxes, reduced benefits, higher age at which benefits can begin to be withdrawn.

I fail to see how allowing everyone to put money into a private savings account that becomes manageable by them and is part of their estate can be associated with giving the money to the elites.

How can we save the program by cutting the revenue stream is a good question. First, anytime you undo Government intervention (price controls and socialism) there is always a period of pain. In this case the money taken from ssn and used in the general fund will have to be partially refunded. So yes, there will be some pain involved just like any other withdrawl pain. However, the system then becomes viable forever because the money will actually be invested rather than spent.

>How can we correct huge deficit spending by borrowing more money to cover the difference?
Already answered, but the democrats must have had an answer to this question when they began considering the SSN as part of the general fund. What was their solution to pay it back? :)



 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
939
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0
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28Republicans are supposed to be the "Ownership" party... well boys, you OWN this.

I'm not sure what you mean here. With the current plan the Government "owns" your money and with the proposed plan you would "own" your money.

With the current plan you might get some of your money back and with the proposed plan you, or your relatives would get all your money back and more.

Do you really think the Government should own everything?
 

ExpertNovice

Senior member
Mar 4, 2005
939
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674OK, what is the name of the Republicans that put up that website?

Notice there is no About info on that bogus site anywhere.


I don't know if it is a republican website but it is obviously a conservative website. Where else would you see such a diverse group of polls. Had this been a liberal website Fox and any website that did not agree with their agenda would have been avoided.


Click on the link at the top of that page...
it is labled "Budget and Taxes" and the URL is "http://www.pollingreport.com/budget.htm"

Notice the add at the top...
Anti-Bush Bumper Stickers
51% is not a mandate. And other messages you have to buy!
At this website you can buy such signs as "asses of evil" depicting President Bush and ....

Click on the "Home" link on that page and you are taken to "http://www.pollingreport.com/"

At the bottom of that page is a link labled "GALLERY OF POLL GRAPHICS
" which directs you to "http://www.pollingreport.com/gallery.htm"

On this page you also see links to Pew Research, CBS, Harris, Gallop, NBC, CNN, USA Today, AP, IPSOS, ABC, Washington Post, Time, SRBI, New York Times, Quinnipiac University, Fox, and Wall Street Journal.

does that help?


(*edited because the closing bracket on the bold statement was missing making almost the entire message in bold text)