Social Security to cost $7000/worker

[Exterous]

What's your alternative solution for helping people retire when 72% of all businesses offer absolutely zero pensions and barely 60% offer 401Ks? SS exists for a reason and it isn't some crazy liberal agenda; it's reality.

If only there was some way people could save on their own!

 

[cubeless]

If only there was some way people could save on their own!

people just need to learn to party like it's 1959...

everybody thinks that they have a right to spend whatever they want on shit and that someone else is going to take care of them down the road...

 

[Mursilis]

people just need to learn to party like it's 1959...

everybody thinks that they have a right to spend whatever they want on shit and that someone else is going to take care of them down the road...

And that someone else is named Uncle Sam.

 

[soccerballtux]

You're hinting around at what is likely going to be a big problem.

The accumulated SS surplus had been invested in special SS treasury bonds. It is an easy way for the fed gov to borrow money, and over the long term pays the SS fund lower interest than other treasuries.

The surplus was espected to continue on into the future, however this recession has changed that. I understand SS is now currently runing in a deficit.

All these recent bailouts and stimulous programs etc have resulted in a huge deficit. This requires the fed gov to issue a lot of new debt. And the interest on this debt is eating up an awful lot of the fed gov budget.

Now the bad news - as SS starts running in the deficit the fed gov must pay off those SS treasuries to give money to the SS trust fund to make it's payments.

As it does this, it must refinance those SS treasuries with regular debt it sells on the market. This debt is going to flood the market and compete with all other debt we must sell to fund our deficit spending. There is a limit on how much debt we can issue. And even if we can manage to sell this new debt, it is going to be more expensive (higher interest rate) than the special SS treasuires. I.e., even more of our budget is going to go to interest expense.

Cliffs: we're looking a national finance death spiral.

Fern

They are invested in treasuries, I did not know they were special treasuries that paid lower interest???

 

[Mursilis]

They are invested in treasuries, I did not know they were special treasuries that paid lower interest???

Why does that matter? Once the con man takes your money, does it matter what he does with it? The money's still gone!

 

[OutHouse]

anyone using medicare or medicade should have a standing "do not resuscitate" order... that would start fixing the problem...

and i already have one on myself, and i don't use either program...

wtf.

 

[Modelworks]

If only there was some way people could save on their own!

Save vs spend, get out of here, no room for such ideas in the modern day USA !

 

[Modelworks]

people just need to learn to party like it's 1959...

everybody thinks that they have a right to spend whatever they want on shit and that someone else is going to take care of them down the road...

Credit is responsible for a lot of the problems. Credit has its place but it tends to make people forget they still have to pay for things.

I have an aunt that always buys a brand new truck but has never bought one on credit, always pays cash, really surprises the dealer when she tells them . They always ask if she won the lottery or inherited money.

The way she does it is starting from the day she buys the new truck she starts putting money into an account for the next truck. By the time the current one is worn out she has enough saved for a new one.

 

[OutHouse]

Before someone makes one of those "spend less on wars" comments,
Total cost of Iraq War these last 9 years has been ~$700B
Our yearly interest payment is >50% of the total cost of the Iraq war.
Total spent on wars since 2001-- ~<$1T
Our yearly expenditure for 80m baby boomers will be >$1T PER YEAR.
So "not doing the wars" wouldn't help us much [any].

you really think the us has spent less that 1 trillion on both war fronts since 2001? try more like 3 trillion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846.html

so your premise is false. i would much rather have seen that money go towards helping our citizens than spent on a damn war. whats more important pay for a war or taking care of our people?

 

[OutHouse]

people just need to learn to party like it's 1959...

everybody thinks that they have a right to spend whatever they want on shit and that someone else is going to take care of them down the road...

everybody? who exactly is everybody?

 

[soccerballtux]

Credit is responsible for a lot of the problems. Credit has its place but it tends to make people forget they still have to pay for things.

I have an aunt that always buys a brand new truck but has never bought one on credit, always pays cash, really surprises the dealer when she tells them . They always ask if she won the lottery or inherited money.

The way she does it is starting from the day she buys the new truck she starts putting money into an account for the next truck. By the time the current one is worn out she has enough saved for a new one.

when you can get 0.9&#37; financing for a new car it's stupid to pay in cash. Spending $15k is a huge liability, way larger than getting a 0.9% fixed loan and making the minimum payment.

 

[Patranus]

Social security is a scam and needs to be abolished or at a minimum made optional.

I for one want an investment I can pass onto my estate not something the government will simply eat.

If I pay 300,000 into social security over my lifetime and then die at 55, poof.

If anyone other than the government peddled a similar product in the free market they would be thrown into jail.

Social Security is simply the "progressives" using the government to strong arm people.

 

[soccerballtux]

Social security is a scam and needs to be abolished or at a minimum made optional.

I for one want an investment I can pass onto my estate not something the government will simply eat.

If I pay 300,000 into social security over my lifetime and then die at 55, poof.

If anyone other than the government peddled a similar product in the free market they would be thrown into jail.

Social Security is simply the "progressives" using the government to strong arm people.

Republicans won't touch it either.
Are we going to see the investment opportunity our parents and grandparents saw? Dow growing 14-fold in a matter of 30 years? Never in our lifetime.
Love how the old people get victimized though like they had no opportunity to save and capitalize to save up for their own retirement. Now we have to tax their children to pay for the poor old helpless people.

I want some conservatives in gov't, not more Republicans.

 

[Jaskalas]

If anyone other than the government peddled a similar product in the free market they would be thrown into jail.

Social Security is simply the "progressives" using the government to strong arm people.

Bernard Madoff agrees.

 

[cubeless]

oops...

 

[cubeless]

everybody? who exactly is everybody?

i was just being expansive... i meant people who do not make enough money to live the lifestyle they are living... there's a big chunk of them out there... if you aren't funding your retirement, you shouldn't have big tv's; cable; cell phones; fancy cars; big houses; fancy vacations; huge ass; red bull; the list goes on...

no pension plan or 401k? open an ira... life is hard? tough shit, that's how it is...

and on my dnr post, if someone's dead, leave them dead... we spend waaay too much money on zombies...

 

[werepossum]

Social security is a scam and needs to be abolished or at a minimum made optional.

I for one want an investment I can pass onto my estate not something the government will simply eat.

If I pay 300,000 into social security over my lifetime and then die at 55, poof.

If anyone other than the government peddled a similar product in the free market they would be thrown into jail.

Social Security is simply the "progressives" using the government to strong arm people.

I too wish SS had from the first been made as a self-sustaining program of individual accounts. But at its inception there wasn't nearly enough money, our government (and by extension ourselves, since we elect the critters) has consistently spent the surplus, and now no politician has the political will to fix it even if we could find the money. (And even if we didn't throw a tantrum and kick him or her out of office.) And we can't very well just drop it after taking people's money for decades. I think the only solution is to both raise the mandatory ages for withdrawal and to means test it - which of course punishes the responsible and rewards the irresponsible. This can only create more irresponsibility.

This does illustrate socialism though. It's a huge drain on our country - but it's also eliminated the poor houses. I'm old enough to remember the poor houses, then sitting empty (or converted to boarding houses for the same old men and women) due to SS and other payments from socialist programs. I have an innate dislike and distrust of socialism - but I don't miss the poor houses. They may yet return, but getting rid of them had some value.

 

[Patranus]

I too wish SS had from the first been made as a self-sustaining program of individual accounts. But at its inception there wasn't nearly enough money, our government (and by extension ourselves, since we elect the critters) has consistently spent the surplus, and now no politician has the political will to fix it even if we could find the money. (And even if we didn't throw a tantrum and kick him or her out of office.) And we can't very well just drop it after taking people's money for decades. I think the only solution is to both raise the mandatory ages for withdrawal and to means test it - which of course punishes the responsible and rewards the irresponsible. This can only create more irresponsibility.

This does illustrate socialism though. It's a huge drain on our country - but it's also eliminated the poor houses. I'm old enough to remember the poor houses, then sitting empty (or converted to boarding houses for the same old men and women) due to SS and other payments from socialist programs. I have an innate dislike and distrust of socialism - but I don't miss the poor houses. They may yet return, but getting rid of them had some value.

Another solution would be to make it optional. Those who have paid in and decide they no longer want it get a pro rated service at 65 IE if they paid in 50% of their lives, they get 50% benefit at 65.

Those who see a need for such security have the option of continuing with the government program and those who want to take their destiny in their own hands have that option as well.

Again, the only reason that is is not optional is because then entire program would collapse because it cannot sustain itself.

 

[Ozoned]

So, I was just running some back-of-the-envelope calculations tonight.

80 million baby boomers retiring over next ~18 years starting 2011.
Avg. Social Security paycheck according to 2001 Census: $1051
80million*$1000/month is $80,000,000,000/month ($80billion/month)
Currently 131million US workers.
That's $7000/worker, per year.

UNLESS Obama's new health care plan is going to make everyone live forever, You better figure a death rate in on your calculations for current, and new enrollee's.

 

[soccerballtux]

i was just being expansive... i meant people who do not make enough money to live the lifestyle they are living... there's a big chunk of them out there... if you aren't funding your retirement, you shouldn't have big tv's; cable; cell phones; fancy cars; big houses; fancy vacations; huge ass; red bull; the list goes on...

no pension plan or 401k? open an ira... life is hard? tough shit, that's how it is...

and on my dnr post, if someone's dead, leave them dead... we spend waaay too much money on zombies...

big house, vacation, car, red bull are the ones I would say you should cut. There's really no reason that anybody can't afford a cellphone (MetroPCS only $30 a month unlimited everything, for example), or a big TV (that's only $700 and is going to last you 5-10 years-- aka not a serious malinvestment).

I like the people at church who don't buy the bigscreen TV because they don't want to be worldly, yet they live in a $500k house. I point and laugh, I'd take the TV and pass on the house.

 

[soccerballtux]

UNLESS Obama's new health care plan is going to make everyone live forever, You better figure a death rate in on your calculations for current, and new enrollee's.

if you read the rest of my post, you would see that I addressed this.
So, 65+18 is 83. Avg life expectancy is 78. 5 years diff. Big whoop. Each worker is still going to have to pay >$5k.

 

[Ozoned]

Population in 1945 was 139,928,000
population in 1963 was 189,242,000


Linear growth of number of people retiring starting in 2011 + 18 years is only 50,000,000
All of these are subject to gradual increase in retirement age, which will buffer effect.

Probably got it down to 2.5K per worker now?

 

[Ozoned]

Linear growth in population over next 18 years will be approx 50,000,000 people.

Using your math about 1/3 of them will be added to current work force. Maybe 2K per worker now?

 

[soccerballtux]

Population in 1945 was 139,928,000
population in 1963 was 189,242,000


Linear growth of number of people retiring starting in 2011 + 18 years is only 50,000,000
All of these are subject to gradual increase in retirement age, which will buffer effect.

Probably got it down to 2.5K per worker now?

the working class is shrinking. Children are expensive.
So are parents now, lol.

 

[Hacp]

Social security is a problem but it isn't as big of a problem as Medicaid and medicare. THAT is the real problem.If you're looking for a program to nuke, medicaid and medicare is the first one I would obliterate.