Social Security to cost $7000/worker

Dec 30, 2004
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So, I was just running some back-of-the-envelope calculations tonight.

80 million baby boomers retiring over next ~18 years starting 2011.
Avg. Social Security paycheck according to 2001 Census: $1051
80million*$1000/month is $80,000,000,000/month ($80billion/month)
Currently 131million US workers.
That's $7000/worker, per year.
Robbing your children: PRICELESS.

Before someone makes one of those "spend less on wars" comments,
Total cost of Iraq War these last 9 years has been ~$700B
Our yearly interest payment is >50% of the total cost of the Iraq war.
Total spent on wars since 2001-- ~<$1T
Our yearly expenditure for 80m baby boomers will be >$1T PER YEAR.
So "not doing the wars" wouldn't help us much [any].

also, August 2008 CBO Social Security stats-- notice how the crossover point isn't until like...2020.... http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/96xx/doc9649/08-20-SocialSecurityUpdate.pdf
and where is it now? daayyyum we just crossed it!!! August 2009-- http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/104xx/doc10457/08-07-SocialSecurity_Update.pdf
Outlays will probably stay above revenues (in contradiction with the CBO estimates) because, I believe, the CBO estimates are assuming a return to economic growth this year (which I have decent reservations about* but I may be wrong).
The shock from the trend up, in outlays, to the Federal Deficit, is double because of Unified Accounting (which we returned to under Nixon)-- UA lets us take that extra 1% we were raking in, and reinvest it in Treasury bonds, and take that value off the official Federal Deficit numbers. So, when the outlays trend up, we're both spending more on the actual Social Security checks, and can't pad our deficit levels with the extra 1%. Hence the double effect on the deficit.
Who knows maybe they can just gradually decrease SS benefits to old people. But then they'll have to sell off more of their stocks/assets (like houses), depressing economic activity...
(*reservations: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_nSTO-vZpS...s/xahZhsGWJzg/s1600-h/illinois+budget+gap.jpg -- states going to have to cut back on their spending a lot. Aside from the guy mislabeling KY, lol, I believe those numbers check out.)

TL;DR version: Our Social Security plan is going to cost $7000/worker (not taking into account the Medicare costs for these 80m) by the time all the baby boomers are retired. Who knows, maybe we'll get lucky and they'll start to die before reaching 85. Then the program will cost each worker maybe only $5000/year
 
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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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Iraq war is probably easing the total number of SS account holders. It probably is saving the USA Money in the long run.

Kind of morbid?

I think what is most important is to look at how much Americans have saved for retirement and then to realize for a lot of people they will not be able to afford to quit working.
 
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Dec 30, 2004
12,553
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Iraq war is probably easing the total number of SS account holders. It probably is saving the USA Money in the long run.

Kind of morbid?

I think what is most important is to look at how much Americans have saved for retirement and then to realize for a lot of people they will not be able to afford to quit working.

Iraq war...that didn't kill any baby boomers?

If people keep working that would do a lot to fix the situation. If we index the date you can begin taking SS to the avg life expectancy for men/women then that would solve almost all our problems, too-- the original point of SS was not a "retirement fund" but a "if you're too old to work-- aka about to die" fund.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
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My Aunt (my Mother's Sister) gets $400 in Social Security per month.

My Mother get's $1,000 per month.

The difference?

One is divorced and the other is widowed.

They are both 70 years old.

-John
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
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Close call. Glad you ran the numbers. Call the White House, I am sure after hearing that you ran the numbers, they will whisk you right in for a meeting.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
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My Aunt (my Mother's Sister) gets $400 in Social Security per month.

My Mother get's $1,000 per month.

The difference?

One is divorced and the other is widowed.

They are both 70 years old.

-John

which is which? Widowed gets more I bet?
We could cut the widows, churches would pick up the tab for them-- direct commandment from Christ, providing for the widows. Long as they go to church and get involved in a Bible study the churches would probably be happy.
 
Dec 30, 2004
12,553
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Close call. Glad you ran the numbers. Call the White House, I am sure after hearing that you ran the numbers, they will whisk you right in for a meeting.

already been there, they said if I don't shut up they will garnish all my wages to pay for it.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
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which is which? Widowed gets more I bet?
We could cut the widows, churches would pick up the tab for them-- direct commandment from Christ, providing for the widows. Long as they go to church and get involved in a Bible study the churches would probably be happy.
Widowed gets more, as he husband worked all his life and paid into the system.

Divorcee, gets almost nothing.

-John
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
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Have no fear. Algore has informed us that there is a lock box. Although the lock box contains nothing of actual negotiable value, we are assured that those IOUs (IOIs?) are backed by the full faith and credit of the United States. That means you get to keep working.

John - widowed gets a portion of the dead spouse's benefits. Divorced does not without legal action against the divorced spouse.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
3
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My point is, this isn't Social Security... it is taking from some, and giving to others.

-John
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
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What's your alternative solution for helping people retire when 72&#37; of all businesses offer absolutely zero pensions and barely 60% offer 401Ks? SS exists for a reason and it isn't some crazy liberal agenda; it's reality.
 

Zorkorist

Diamond Member
Apr 17, 2007
6,861
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What's a business, or person to do when 35-55&#37; of their income goes to the Government?

It sure doesn't leave much left for pension funds.

-John
 
Dec 30, 2004
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What's your alternative solution for helping people retire when 72% of all businesses offer absolutely zero pensions and barely 60% offer 401Ks? SS exists for a reason and it isn't some crazy liberal agenda; it's reality.

Well, our lifestyle just isn't sustainable I think...fundamentally.
We can't only be producing in the economy for 35 years of our lives and then expect to retire and live in luxury (1-22 years and then retirement to death, say 15-20 years there). It's just not sustainable, not when the rest of the world is willing to work for so much less money and do the same thing. They're starving, so they're willing to work 12 hour days. We're just going to have to suck it up and keep working till we're no longer able (till like 70-75), and then move in with your children-- the way it's worked for all of history until now.

So, people need to keep working (delay SS until 75 or whatever the avg life expectancy is-- used to be 65 that's why SS started at 65), and just be content with less-- such as living with your children if you can't afford your own house.

There's really no way out of this, it's either inflation with the Federal Reserve buying all the US Treasuries (result will be cost of living goes way up until the SS payments aren't anything at all anymore-- ie barely cover food if even that), or the gov't axing benefits for the old people-- the end result is the same, they end up with less. The working population won't put up with another Income Tax (which is what this will turn into), they'd rather have the money and mom/dad just have to live with them.
 

cubeless

Diamond Member
Sep 17, 2001
4,295
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What's your alternative solution for helping people retire when 72% of all businesses offer absolutely zero pensions and barely 60% offer 401Ks? SS exists for a reason and it isn't some crazy liberal agenda; it's reality.

nice trick skirting the entire federal govt and military... why isn't everyone in the same pot?
 

woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
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he means that because i saved all my life and lived frugally so i would have some money to spend in retirement i should get no ss...

I don't particularly care for the idea myself. But then, it's that, or people don't get SS until they're 85 years old, which is Soccerballx's idea, and that of course means that the scenario you describe will in fact occur for about half the people out there, and the other half will receive very little back versus what they put in. Except for those who are lucky enough to live to 100.

I am, of course, open to all reasonable suggestions.

- wolf