Social Security - Raise Retirement Age?

[Modelworks]

When they say people are living longer that does not mean that somehow we have changed it where the curve over time of your ability to work has changed. People are living longer but their ability to work has not changed. Like it or not once you hit 60+ there are going to be many things people cannot do . I worry about my brother who will be 50 this year and moves heavy appliances all day long. No way can he continue that till he is 70, I'll be amazed if he can do it till he is 60.

We have extended the lifespan but not removed the effects of aging. We can keep people who have a condition like heart failure alive for 10 more years but we cannot bring them back to the level they were before and put them to work. Joint failure is a big one as people age . You can't replace peoples joints like a machine part and decide that now they can work. It is a lot more complicated than just saying people are living longer so lets up the retirement age.

If you raise retirement age the rise in disability claims will take away any gains.

 

[Linflas]

Exactly, which is why I loathe the boomers - these stupid 60's left-overs think so well of themselves, wanting to give so much to others (themselves, really), like free healthcare, a strong social security net for the poor, etc., but they won't actually pay for it! And this and prior generations are drawing much more from SS (and medicare) than they actually paid in, but resist any attempts to cut either. If the example set by the elderly is of short-sighted greed and selfishness, you can hardly expect the young to be any different.

Yeah this SS mess is all the fault of a generation that was born after the program was voted on and established and is the first generation to have actually paid into the system for their entire working lives. Meanwhile a majority of the 18-30 somethings now bitching about baby boomers that will begin to draw on their SS benefits in the next decade voted for a President and Congress that have spent the past 2 years establishing yet another huge entitlement program and showing that not only could they match the spending under Bush but double it in 2 years time. If you want to be honest about SS the problem is not with any one generation, it is the fatal flaw that was built into the program at its inception.

 

[Red Dawn]

Exactly, which is why I loathe the boomers - these stupid 60's left-overs think so well of themselves, wanting to give so much to others (themselves, really), like free healthcare, a strong social security net for the poor, etc., but they won't actually pay for it! And this and prior generations are drawing much more from SS (and medicare) than they actually paid in, but resist any attempts to cut either. If the example set by the elderly is of short-sighted greed and selfishness, you can hardly expect the young to be any different.

And what has been the great contribution from your generation for this country..aside from whining and bitching about how things aren't fair?

 

[Red Dawn]

Of course it has to be raised. The longer the baby boomers and older, who have put this in great part on the backs of my generation, act like spoiled little bitches and resist this, the more my generation (and following) will have to pay for their greed.

How many people nearing or at retirement age realize that they are stealing from their children with this chronic deficit spending they passed through year after year? Is it any wonder my generation is supposed to be the first not to live better than our parents?

Have a problem with it, go back to your own country.

 

[Mursilis]

Yeah this SS mess is all the fault of a generation that was born after the program was voted on and established and is the first generation to have actually paid into the system for their entire working lives. Meanwhile a majority of the 18-30 somethings now bitching about baby boomers that will begin to draw on their SS benefits in the next decade voted for a President and Congress that have spent the past 2 years establishing yet another huge entitlement program and showing that not only could they match the spending under Bush but double it in 2 years time. If you want to be honest about SS the problem is not with any one generation, it is the fatal flaw that was built into the program at its inception.

Fair enough - no generation has seriously attempted to fix the issue.

 

[nobodyknows]

Clearly, in human history, when we didn't have social security and socialized healthcare grandmas were dying on the street. How did humans survive all these years?!?

 

[SammyJr]

Clearly, in human history, when we didn't have social security and socialized healthcare grandmas were dying on the street. How did humans survive all these years?!?

People didn't live that long and medical care was pretty well nonexistant. When people got too old to work, they just lived with family until they died. It didn't take long.

Modern medicine changed all that. Its expensive and enabled people to live longer.

 

[SammyJr]

For everyone? No. Why should the high school drop-out get free health care?

Why not? That high school drop out is probably working a job that is essential. Toliets need to be cleaned. Food needs to be made. Packages need to be delivered. Many jobs don't require and education, but to need one to be in good health.

 

[classy]

Damn, I couldn't stand that show. Or Little House on the Prairie or that little annoying bimbo Shirley Temple. And every damn time my stinking sister would call my mom because I wouldn't let her watch them. They sucked.....little off track there

 

[Fern]

It has to be raised. SS was meant as a safety net for those who lived longer than their savings held out. It was not intended as a retirement plan that people live off for 30 years. Medical science keeps us alive longer, we should expect more of those years to be productive.

The average life expectancy is a lot higher now than it was when the retirement age was originally set, and it will continue to go up. As such I think it's both necessary and prudent to start raising the retirement age gradually.

Yes, it's true that people live longer now than when SS was implemented.

But do you have any freakin idea of what people were required to pay back then? It was almost nothing.

The amount we pay now is OVER 10% of our gross. Jeebus, that's plenty enough to fund a retirement account, which is what SS has become.

There are no longer traditional retirement plans (defined benefit plans) for people, so for many SS IS their retirement. Look, you can't make people pay in 12.4% (the amount for OASDI which for retirement) and expect them to find another pot-load of money for another retirement plan. And the rate of return is already pretty low: http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cj14n1-4.html

Stretching out the rerierment age only makes the RoR worse.

But I contend this mostly misses the point: The government taking taxes/fees for one thing and using them to plug a hole elsewhere.

"SS" is broadly composed of two seperate parts: OASDI and Medicare. They are not the same thing.

OASDI is several programs itself, and retirement is one of them. It is forcast to be solvent until 2040. If the rate needs to be raise for that, fine raise it.

But Medicare is the one that is underfunded, the tax raised is only covering 57% of the cost. So raise the damn tax or cut the expense, but don't swipe retirement money to cover it's short fall. The two programs are completely different, their taxes are calculated seperately. Just because you who are employees see one lump sum on your paystub doesn't mean squat.

If one program is basically OK, and another is floundering, don't damage the good program to prop up the crappy one. Just fix the damn problems in the crappy program.

From a policy perspective we're going to run into trouble down the road. We no longer have traditional retirement plans, yet many people are forced out of employment when they reach an older age. Some even before 65 yrs old. Walmart only needs so many greeters.

Look, if our 10% (actually 12.4%) isn't gonna go for retirement, then lets just cancel the whole freakin thing. A program intended to provide a basic pension for your old age is gonna end up doing just the opposite. By taking so much money from people thereby hampering them from saving for themselves and then denying them retirement benefits we're going to create a class of impoverished elderly. Like I said, the exact opposite of what was intended and promised.

You people do realize that most people pay more into SS than they pay in income taxes?

Fern

 

[Hacp]

Why not? That high school drop out is probably working a job that is essential. Toliets need to be cleaned. Food needs to be made. Packages need to be delivered. Many jobs don't require and education, but to need one to be in good health.

Because he can't pay for it. You can't just walk into Mcdonalds and demand a burger without paying just because you want one can you?

 

[SammyJr]

Because he can't pay for it. You can't just walk into Mcdonalds and demand a burger without paying just because you want one can you?

So you want some guy who's sick making your burger? You want someone with a bad back doing a shitty job cleaning the toliets because they can't bend over?

Good health is a requirement for all jobs, no matter how low the education requirements.