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So.... you think Joe Biden can actually win?

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I think Sanders is the candidate that is most likely to get voters to turn out. He is by far the leading candidate among young voters, and those are the voters that are hardest to get to the booth.
 
BoomerD said:
I've been a Democrat since I first reached the legal age in 1972. IMO, the Dems haven't fielded a candidate who stands a chance of beating Trump...barring some kind of miracle, he will be elected to a second term next year.
When will the Dems learn that in order to beat the Repubs, they have to move MUCH farther to the center...and abandon the AOC-types of far-left whackos?
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When will Americans learn that the right is profoundly evil and needs to be destroyed by a equally vicious radical left? Between the center and the right America stays owned by the rich and Democracy stays dead.
 
BoomerD said:
I've been a Democrat since I first reached the legal age in 1972. IMO, the Dems haven't fielded a candidate who stands a chance of beating Trump...barring some kind of miracle, he will be elected to a second term next year.
When will the Dems learn that in order to beat the Repubs, they have to move MUCH farther to the center...and abandon the AOC-types of far-left whackos?
Click to expand...

Trump ran a populist campaign and Hillary ran a centrist campaign and lost. Why would you think the democrats would win running a more centrist candidate? Or are you intentionally giving bad advice hoping it will help Trump win re-election?
 
alcoholbob said:
Trump ran a populist campaign and Hillary ran a centrist campaign and lost. Why would you think the democrats would win running a more centrist candidate? Or are you intentionally giving bad advice hoping it will help Trump win re-election?
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You're presuming that Clinton's center left posture is the reason she lost. There were many variables in that election. Obama was also center left and won. Twice. Same with Bill.
 
BoomerD said:
I've been a Democrat since I first reached the legal age in 1972. IMO, the Dems haven't fielded a candidate who stands a chance of beating Trump...barring some kind of miracle, he will be elected to a second term next year.
When will the Dems learn that in order to beat the Repubs, they have to move MUCH farther to the center...and abandon the AOC-types of far-left whackos?
Click to expand...
holy shit, you were alive when dirt was born
 
woolfe9998 said:
You're presuming that Clinton's center left posture is the reason she lost. There were many variables in that election. Obama was also center left and won. Twice. Same with Bill.
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JEDIYoda said:
She lost because of her name...IMO!!
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Exactly. Hillary didn't lose the election because of her policies, IMO, she lost because of who she is...and because of the email server bullshit.


DigDog said:
holy shit, you were alive when dirt was born
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Dude...I was old before dirt was invented.
 
I still find it odd how people consistently and confidently predict that the guy who is losing in all the polls (Trump) will defeat the guy who is winning in all the polls (Biden).

Is it possible that Trump wins? Absolutely, it would be foolish to underestimate his chances. Is it some overwhelming probability? Of course not. For example in 2012 Obama was consistently leading Romney in matchup polls.

If I remember right these polls aren’t super predictive at this point so they should be taken with a large grain of salt but viewing the guy who is often down by double digits as the prohibitive favorite is absurd.
 
I actually detest Biden as a candidate just because he represents like the last 200 years of old white dudes (one or two notwithstanding). He just feels too 'old guard'. I'd much prefer Bernie even, because he's got the crazy grampa thing going on, makes me feel like Rick became president.

Plus Bernie comes with no baggage. I'm worried the Ukraine shit is going to drag Biden down, and all debates/conversations will be about that rather than his policies. It's rather poignant that I don't actually know his policies right now other than 'not Trump' but I've got some pretty clear notions on what happened with Ukraine.
 
[DHT]Osiris said:
I actually detest Biden as a candidate just because he represents like the last 200 years of old white dudes (one or two notwithstanding). He just feels too 'old guard'. I'd much prefer Bernie even, because he's got the crazy grampa thing going on, makes me feel like Rick became president.

Plus Bernie comes with no baggage. I'm worried the Ukraine shit is going to drag Biden down, and all debates/conversations will be about that rather than his policies. It's rather poignant that I don't actually know his policies right now other than 'not Trump' but I've got some pretty clear notions on what happened with Ukraine.
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People only think Sanders doesn’t have baggage because the Republicans have never gone after him. If he wins the nomination you will start hearing about how he’s a secret commie and his dealings/statements with Cuba.

There is no one, no one that the Trumpkins will not find a way to smear and try to use the media to pull another Hillary’s emails against. Trying to insulate against that is pointless.

If you are solely centered on who is most likely to win the 2020 election then Biden is likely your guy. If you care about using this opportunity to enact more radical change he probably isn’t.
 
fskimospy said:
People only think Sanders doesn’t have baggage because the Republicans have never gone after him. If he wins the nomination you will start hearing about how he’s a secret commie and his dealings/statements with Cuba.
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Hey, I hope they do. I know nobody that gives a flying fuck about Cuba, and criticisms regarding that would completely fall apart. I'm pretty sure Sanders could just smile on a debate floor and beat the shit out of Trump.
fskimospy said:
If you are solely centered on who is most likely to win the 2020 election then Biden is likely your guy. If you care about using this opportunity to enact more radical change he probably isn’t.
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He's as vanilla, beige, center-lane as you can get. All I've been hearing for years is the most important thing for D's to get into the WH is for people to get to the booths. That the silent majority are all D's. Get the vote out, and the D's win. Yet you pick the most boring-as-fuck candidate to get people out of their seats? The guy that appeals to the 15 remaining 40-something white women because he reminds them of their fathers?

Just, ugh.
 
Of course he can win, as can any of the Dems really, some might be more risky than others.

He does do better with the people that actually show up to the polls and in the states that will decide the election tho, plus there's few secrets left with him.

Meanwhile there is some weird stuff in Bernie's background that just hasn't come up as he's never made it out of the D primary. Don't count on that lasting.
 
Victorian Gray said:
My opinion is that Trump (and his propaganda thugs) would wipe the floor with Biden.
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Flashback to the Vice Presidential debate a few years back. Who cleaned the floor against Paul "Lyin" Ryan? Do we have to dig the videotape out? It is on YouTube. Who was super thirsty because they couldn't take the heat and drank almost all of the water from the kitchen sink? Hint: initials are P "L" R...
 
If Joe wants a boost he should volunteer to testify live at impeachment hearings as long as Mulvaney does the same. GOP doesn't have to agree but Joe can make the offer public and often, pointing out Republicans creamed their pants with the thought of Joe testifying and now they can have it.
 
Victorian Gray said:
Biden is an empty candidate that, in my opinion, brings absolutely nothing to the race. Mind you, I don't see any of the current crop beating Trump. I truly hope I'm wrong but I think that he's gonna get his 2nd term. Good luck world if that happens.
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The world will have to hope and pray this doesn't happen. The Democrats, Independents and our Republican turncoats will have to run to the polls and make our current dictator a one term President! Kentuckian's will have to do the same with Moscow Mitch! Don't fret Democrats - get up and do what you have to do to get rid of these two chameleons.
 
[DHT]Osiris said:
Hey, I hope they do. I know nobody that gives a flying fuck about Cuba, and criticisms regarding that would completely fall apart. I'm pretty sure Sanders could just smile on a debate floor and beat the shit out of Trump.
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1) Nobody gave a shit about email handling protocols either and look what happened there.

2) Hillary Clinton destroyed Trump in the debates. They don't really move the needle.

He's as vanilla, beige, center-lane as you can get. All I've been hearing for years is the most important thing for D's to get into the WH is for people to get to the booths. That the silent majority are all D's. Get the vote out, and the D's win. Yet you pick the most boring-as-fuck candidate to get people out of their seats? The guy that appeals to the 15 remaining 40-something white women because he reminds them of their fathers?

Just, ugh.
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I'm not picking anyone, I'm just saying that generally speaking candidates viewed as centrist do better in elections and so that's a feature, not a bug. Enthusiasm will not be a problem for Democrats in 2020 and at least at this time Biden polls by far the best out of the Democratic field. I'm not saying Bernie can't win and if he got the nomination I would happily vote for him in a second. The evidence suggests that whether he wins or not though he would probably get a smaller share of the vote than Biden.
 
fskimospy said:
1) Nobody gave a shit about email handling protocols either and look what happened there.
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I actually did personally, it's more of an overarching concern for accountability of secret/ts information though (i worked in the field in the military). I agree with you though, general audience didn't.
fskimospy said:
2) Hillary Clinton destroyed Trump in the debates. They don't really move the needle.
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Yeah that's true. Seems more like there's no point in even considering these facts when you have the GOP willing to basically lie, cheat, and steal their way to an election.. so basically it doesn't matter who the candidate is, wrt actually winning.
 
[DHT]Osiris said:
Oh, and one more thing, I absolutely detest Bloomberg. He looks 100% like he's trying to buy an election.
View attachment 14513

Outline.com

outline.com outline.com

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Bloomberg debate participation hinges on potential DNC rule changes

The decision on whether Michael Bloomberg will be able to participate in presidential primary debates rests with the Democratic National Committee, which
www.washingtonexaminer.com www.washingtonexaminer.com
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How can a candidate spend $81.2 million on ads and I have no idea who he/she is? I have literally no idea who Steyer is.
 
BoomerD said:
I've been a Democrat since I first reached the legal age in 1972. IMO, the Dems haven't fielded a candidate who stands a chance of beating Trump...barring some kind of miracle, he will be elected to a second term next year.
When will the Dems learn that in order to beat the Repubs, they have to move MUCH farther to the center...and abandon the AOC-types of far-left whackos?
Click to expand...
I completely disagree. When Dems offer up center-right candidates, the base tends to stay home, the independents see no reason to choose the Dem over the Rep, and the Reps win. Maybe, with the Reps so far off into the realm of fascism, the "centrists" out there will finally see a difference between brand X and brand Y but I doubt it. When Dems run on center-left issues (particularly economic issues) and put up center-left candidates, they win because they turn out the vote. Bill Clinton's and Al Gore's greatest sin was to drag the Dems to the center-right in 1992 and convince the Dems that this one-time strategy could sustain the party long term.
 
IronWing said:
How can a candidate spend $81.2 million on ads and I have no idea who he/she is? I have literally no idea who Steyer is.
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www.opensecrets.org

Summary data for Tom Steyer, 2020 cycle

This page highlights the fundraising details for the presidential campaign of Tom Steyer for 2020. For more information, click through the page.
www.opensecrets.org www.opensecrets.org
As of SEP he raised $49m, spend $47m. $47.5m of that raised was self-financing, so basically he spent $50m dollars failing to even get noticed by anyone. A fool and his money I suppose.
 
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