So why do Rosewill PSUs suck?

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SerpentRoyal

Banned
May 20, 2007
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Originally posted by: lollybo
What is your problem with me? Why do you have to consistently order me around and insult me?

I admitted I made a stupid decision, isn't that enough? I am on a budget; a mediocre $50 PSU will be fine for my purposes.

I would appreciate it much more if you told me reasons why certain PSUs are better instead of blatantly proclaiming which PSUs are better based off common knowledge. I'm not doubting that X PSU is bad, but I would like to know why. As you can tell by my previous posts, I am not so knowledgeable about PSUs, and your post isn't helping me understand them more.

There's nothing wrong with the Ultra X-Finity line. I use the X-Finity 600 as my primary test PSU. Output look good on my analog scope. It may not put out the full 600W at 50C, but if the PC will only pull 350W, then why sweat the details? The PSU is FREE AR.

There are quite a few "self-proclaimed PSU experts" who don't know jack about PSU design and testing.
 

jonnyGURU

Moderator <BR> Power Supplies
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Oct 30, 1999
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Originally posted by: SerpentRoyal

There are quite a few "self-proclaimed PSU experts" who don't know jack about PSU design and testing.

:roll:

Excellent troll post there. No wonder you have over 2000 posts in less than 6 months.

Nobody said the X-Finity was "bad", except for maybe someone saying that it may be "as bad" as the V-Series. The point is being made that that particular Rosewill is "better." And certainly with it's relatively low efficiency, lack of PFC and grou regulated design there are also better choices out there, although typically much more expensive.

If you can argue with any of that, then you are the self-proclaimed expert that "don't know jack."
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
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There are SerpentRoyal - quite a few "self-proclaimed PSU experts" who don't know jack about PSU design and testing.

Hopefully you are not talking about JonnyGURU!!
If you are then maybe you need to be educated a bit.

First of all Jonny`s work speaks for itself. Very accurate and thorough!

Second of all when your work such as Jonny`s makes other people stand up and take notice that is hardly you proclaiming yourself an expert!

That is other people in and out of the PSU industry saying Jonny knows what he is talking about!!

I hope this has helped!!

Peace!!
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,033
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Come on guys let him buy another pos so youtube can gain another video.:evil: Popcorn and soda are standing by waiting on this gem.

Really though the OP should take the time to actually read and understand the ps articles and test results so he can make an informed decision on his own. It's really not any different than buying a car. What do you want, a honda or a kia?
 

magreen

Golden Member
Dec 27, 2006
1,309
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Originally posted by: Zap
Originally posted by: lollybo
I am on a budget; a mediocre $50 PSU will be fine for my purposes.

Why buy a mediocre PSU for $50 when you can get a good PSU for $50? They do exist. Here's the trick for getting one... ask for recommendations in advance.
:p I thoroughly enjoyed that post.
 

myocardia

Diamond Member
Jun 21, 2003
9,291
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I have actually saved this thread to my hard drive, and will be burning it a CD, in case my my newest HD happens to fail. I still remember the thread when a guy who owns his own psu testing site was recommending a 500 watt Ultra X-Connect to a guy who was building a top of the line system, and I kept telling said psu owning site guy that those X-Connect's weren't very good psu's, even for the price they were selling them for at that time.

I have no idea whether said OP* ended up buying that X-Connect or not, though I hope he didn't. All I do know is that said psu testing site owner disappeared from anandtech after that for a very long time, it seemed to me. He did seem quite pissed off at me, and the other people who started chiming in about their/their friend's experiences with those psu's. I'm just glad that he's back, and is no longer trumpeting those X-Connects/X-Finity's (the X-Finity's are the replacements for the X-Connects, from what I can tell). Ultra makes some good psu's now, but the X-Finity's still aren't one of them (though I hope that they at least changed OEM's for their cheaper psu's).

Lollybo, if you ever have any trouble at all with your new system, you'll know what's causing the problems. Depending on the video card you're planning on using, you may have no problems whatsoever, or it might not be stable to begin with. Just because one psu says it can output 190,000 watts, doesn't mean it's better than one that can actually provide 450 or 500 watts, continously.


*original/originating poster
 

lollybo

Member
Dec 14, 2005
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I don't have an x-connect. I don't need a "good PSU", I am not that advanced level of an user and I don't need all the extra bells and whistles. As serpent and others have said, this PSU will do just fine even if it doesn't have all the fancy features.

Well it's only 50 bucks, if something screws up, no biggie I'll just buy another PSU.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
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Originally posted by: lollybo
I don't have an x-connect. I don't need a "good PSU", I am not that advanced level of an user and I don't need all the extra bells and whistles. As serpent and others have said, this PSU will do just fine even if it doesn't have all the fancy features.

Well it's only 50 bucks, if something screws up, no biggie I'll just buy another PSU.

Ok 50 bucks.....so your PSU blows up and in thew process takes your motherboard and a harddrive with it.

Doesn`t seem to add up huh?
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,033
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Eh he's hell bent on going cheap so let him go and don't waste any more of your time trying to explain anything to him. Videos please.
 

GPett

Member
Apr 14, 2007
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Well going cheap may mean that a PSU may have noise or not be able to provide its "rated" wattage in a reliable way. But, how many cheap PSUs blow up? I haven't encountered any.

The recent 8800GT article showed that a modern gaming rig sucks about 300W from the wall. Even a cheapo 500 or 600 w can provide 300w.

So stop the doomsday predictions. Sure he will have a less than stellar PSU... but will his system burn in flames? I think not.


P.S. I am not advocating buying crap PSUs. I just want you guys to be realistic in your threats and reasons to not buy a crapola PSU. Crapola PSUs will not cause your computer to self destruct. When you buy a crapola PSU you may get fuzzy power and not get the wattage the PSU advertises or on the rails that you need. That in no way will fry your motherboard and hard drives.

Good cheap psus = http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817189014 and http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16817703011
 

jonnyGURU

Moderator <BR> Power Supplies
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Oct 30, 1999
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Originally posted by: myocardia
...a guy who owns his own psu testing site was recommending a 500 watt Ultra X-Connect to a guy who was building a top of the line system...

myocardia, you are so full of crap it's not even funny. I love your selective memory and out-of-context recollections.

Why don't you find those posts and we'll revist what point I was actually trying to make? I'm sure what I suggested is far from what you would actually like to use to troll with. Searching the archives, I could only fins someone that was trying to choose between an X-Connect and an Antec with a X1950XTX based system, I wasn't participating in the thread, but you did and actually suggested the X-Connect of the two! Hypocrit.

If someone already HAD an X-Connect or could get one for a very reasonable price (second hand from a friend or free after rebate) and a single graphics card machine, I'd STILL say to go ahead and use the X-Connect TO THIS DAY. Would I suggest someone buy an X-Connect over a better unit for the same price? Of course not. I didn't then and you can see that I'm not doing that today. For the same price, the Rosewill is better than the Ultra. If the Ultra were considerably less money, I'd say "good move, go for it." as was the case in the other thread. Of course ultimately, I would want to suggest that someone aim their sights a little higher and get a unit that's generally better over all.

The reason why I left for a spell was because I got pissed off at people like you and their narrow minded view on things based completely on a lack of practical knowledge. I have no clue why I continue to come back here and participate in this hodge podge of ignorance.

OP, be careful in here. There are a lot of two faced sharks in these forums that like to dispense contradicting information based on absolutely no experience what so ever.

 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
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Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
The reason why I left for a spell was because I got pissed off at people like you and their narrow minded view on things based completely on a lack of practical knowledge. I have no clue why I continue to come back here and participate in this hodge podge of ignorance.

You keep coming back because you love the rest of us. :heart:
 

jonnyGURU

Moderator <BR> Power Supplies
Moderator
Oct 30, 1999
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Originally posted by: Zap
Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
The reason why I left for a spell was because I got pissed off at people like you and their narrow minded view on things based completely on a lack of practical knowledge. I have no clue why I continue to come back here and participate in this hodge podge of ignorance.

You keep coming back because you love the rest of us. :heart:

Riiiiiiiiiiiight.
 

jonnyGURU

Moderator <BR> Power Supplies
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Oct 30, 1999
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Originally posted by: myocardia
...is no longer trumpeting those X-Connects/X-Finity's (the X-Finity's are the replacements for the X-Connects, from what I can tell). Ultra makes some good psu's now, but the X-Finity's still aren't one of them (though I hope that they at least changed OEM's for their cheaper psu's).

When Ultra tried to find someone to make the X-Connect, they couldn't find an OEM willing to make a modular power supply. Ultra even solicited Antec with the idea, hoping that they would somehow "sub-contract" the production with one of their OEM's (Ultra by Antec, I suppose.) Antec shot down the idea saying it would never take off. I suppose they had a change of heart shortly their after because Antec came out with the NeoPower modular power supply the same year the X-Connect was introduced.

Ultra finally found an OEM that would manufacture their power supplies: Youngyear. The Youngyear product wasn't too bad at first and reviewed quite well.

Meanwhile, Ultra was starting to get the X-Connect into Europe. After seeing the success of the X-Connect and other modular power supplies in the U.S., their usual OEM, Wintech, was a bit more willing to produce modular power supplies. They produced a 230V only APFC X-Connect for the European market.

After the first production run of Youngyear built X-Connects was sold out, Youngyear was approached and asked to make another run of the "titanium colored" (that high luster chrome out sold every other color 2 to 1) product, but at a better price. Apparently Youngyear came back with a better price, but unbenounced to Ultra, also came back with a significantly worse product.

Meanwhile, Ultra found that their initial order to Wintech for units for Europe was more than Europe could sell, so they took a few of the units back to the factory and had the APFC removed so it could run on 115V. These are the Ultra X-Connect units with the "ULT-33" part number. Youngyear units in the U.S. all had "ULT-31" part numbers.

About this time Ultra decided to go back to the drawing board and improve the X-Connect with a larger fan and different cables. This became the "X2." This unit was built by Wintech because Ultra learned their lesson with Youngyear (I personally thought Ultra should have sued Youngyear for the cost of the second production run and damages.

Now this is where I came in... Ultra knew I was reviewing PSU's for SL Central and a guy I used to work with at TCWO was now working for a sales rep for Ultra. They wanted me to look at their new X2 800W power supply before it went to market. This was around the time of CES and I was going to be in Taiwan any ways, so I stopped by the Ultra offices in Taipei and played with the Wintech based 800W on their Chroma.

It was as underwhelming as I would have expected from Wintech. It did 800W at room temperature, but the efficiency was hard pressed to get to reach 80%, there was no PFC and it was group regulated so it would crossload easily. I suggested they look at other OEM's.

Based on my experience with reviewing the Sunbeam, Hiper and Aerocool product and knowing that they could make a good quality product for little money, I suggested they give Andyson a look. It just so happened that the owner of Andyson was a cousin of the owner of Wintech and that Andyson was currently working on a high efficiency unit in the 500W and 600W range. Problem was, Ultra didn't need anything in this range as they still had X2's to sell through, but after I shot down their Wintech based 800W, they looked to Andyson to make the X-Pro and X-Finity 800W. The unit could not be made modular because the un-modified design required two 80MM fans for cooling.

Unfortunately, Ultra found that Andyson could be rather slow at times, and not having anything in the market greater than 550W was putting them behind the pack. At this time I had remembered my friend Madmat from Techgage reviewing the XG Duro 900W, which was built by SevenTeam. Although the unit was actually a 750W PSU, it could actually do 900W peak at room temperature. Impressive... and it just so happened that MGE mysteriously disappeared from the face of the map shortly after the review. So I suggested Ultra have a look at just slapping an Ultra label on whatever 750W power supplies SevenTeam had laying around. This became the X-Pro 750. Around the same time these became ready to sell, Andyson had their 800W ready for Ultra.

From that time forward, Ultra had been using Andyson for all of their better units. X3, X-Finity and X-Pro. Wintech had been reduced to a manufacture of V-Series and VXS power supplies, although not all V-Series and XVS power supplies are Wintech. Power supplies that come included inside cases are actually built by a former Wintech engineer working at Yue-Lin and uses Wintech's UL # with permission from Wintech and the UL.

X-Finity used to be the name Ultra used for ALL of their retail power supplies, even before there was an X-Connect. Later, the name was re-used to desribe non-modular units with FlexForce cables. These units were all made by Wintech until the 800W. AFAIK, the 800W is the only X-Finity to not be made by Wintech and is the last X-Finity to make it on the market. X-Pro was the brand introduced to describe power supplies with fully sleeved cables, power supplies that in the past, before there were FlexForce cables were actually called "X-Finity." All X-Pro power supplies are made by Andyson except for the handful of SevenTeam based 750W units floating around.
 

lollybo

Member
Dec 14, 2005
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The number for my PSU Is : ULT31847

Is that the crappy batch of youngyears or the good batch?
 

jonnyGURU

Moderator <BR> Power Supplies
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Originally posted by: lollybo
The number for my PSU Is : ULT31847

Is that the crappy batch of youngyears or the good batch?

Neither. You didn't read what I posted.

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

X-Finity used to be the name Ultra used for ALL of their retail power supplies, even before there was an X-Connect. Later, the name was re-used to desribe non-modular units with FlexForce cables. These units were all made by Wintech until the 800W. AFAIK, the 800W is the only X-Finity to not be made by Wintech and is the last X-Finity to make it on the market. X-Pro was the brand introduced to describe power supplies with fully sleeved cables, power supplies that in the past, before there were FlexForce cables were actually called "X-Finity." All X-Pro power supplies are made by Andyson except for the handful of SevenTeam based 750W units floating around.

So it doesn't matter if your part number is ULT-666SATANFTW, it's going to be made by Wintech unless it's an 800W.
 

lollybo

Member
Dec 14, 2005
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Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
Originally posted by: lollybo
The number for my PSU Is : ULT31847

Is that the crappy batch of youngyears or the good batch?

Neither. You didn't read what I posted.

Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

X-Finity used to be the name Ultra used for ALL of their retail power supplies, even before there was an X-Connect. Later, the name was re-used to desribe non-modular units with FlexForce cables. These units were all made by Wintech until the 800W. AFAIK, the 800W is the only X-Finity to not be made by Wintech and is the last X-Finity to make it on the market. X-Pro was the brand introduced to describe power supplies with fully sleeved cables, power supplies that in the past, before there were FlexForce cables were actually called "X-Finity." All X-Pro power supplies are made by Andyson except for the handful of SevenTeam based 750W units floating around.

So it doesn't matter if your part number is ULT-666SATANFTW, it's going to be made by Wintech unless it's an 800W.

I lol'd

It seems to me that the purpose of getting a high quality PSU is that Watts, in reality, don't really mean anything if the PSU is inefficient. For example, a high quality 450 watt PSU can still beat a crappy 600W PSU if it can access those watts more efficiently.

However, I think I'm just going to stick out the x-finity 600W and use the lesson learned for my future builds.

 

jonnyGURU

Moderator <BR> Power Supplies
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Oct 30, 1999
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Originally posted by: lollybo

It seems to me that the purpose of getting a high quality PSU is that Watts, in reality, don't really mean anything if the PSU is inefficient. For example, a high quality 450 watt PSU can still beat a crappy 600W PSU if it can access those watts more efficiently.

No. Just because a PSU is not efficient doesn't make it crappy. And getting something that is more efficient isn't necessarily going to save you that much money in the long run (about $2/year for a PSU that's 80% typical vs. 75%.)

What you do get when you get a better PSU is better reliability and cleaner power that won't make your other components work harder to regulate.

There's a lot of server PSU's out there that are built with > 100,000 hours MTBF @ 50°C, but they may only be 75% efficient, where an 80% efficient Seasonic, Enhance or FSP may not be built nearly as well or put out as consistant and clean voltages.

Also, different PSU's are rated at different temperatures. One PSU may be rated at 40°C or 50°C while another may be rated at 25°C. The one rated at 25°C may only be able to put out 75% of it's total capability at 50°C, so although the label says it is "higher wattage" it may do much less under the same environment as another.

You also have group versus independent regulation. Group regulated units are much cheaper to build, but they cross load easily (when one voltage's load is greater than another's, the voltage may go out of spec) and the ripple and noise tend to be very high.
 

Amart

Member
Jan 17, 2007
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Problem is that power supply you linked costs $45 shipped, but you can get a better power supply at a discount. It's 500W rating considering the maker is probably comparable to 400W from a reliable company, something that you can get for that price.

So why go with a cheap maker for the heart of your system? That's actually the key point - you should always pay extra for a reliable PSU to avoid many problems in the future.

(p.s. I totally skipped the whole thread, sorry :p)
 

spittledip

Diamond Member
Apr 23, 2005
4,480
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So Jonny how do you think that X-finity will do with the 8800GT? Is it dangerous to use the X-finity with the 8800GT? Ithought it would do ok.. and that was from what I thought I remembered from your review of it.. but I remembered wrong it seems.. Is it crammed full of crappy caps or something?
 

lollybo

Member
Dec 14, 2005
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It's not dangerous to use any power supply with any hardware unless it's an absolute POS. The X-finity is average, but it's not amazing.
 

Zap

Elite Member
Oct 13, 1999
22,377
2
81
Originally posted by: jonnyGURU
When Ultra tried to find someone to make the X-Connect, they couldn't find an OEM willing to make a modular power supply. Ultra even solicited Antec with the idea, hoping that they would somehow "sub-contract" the production with one of their OEM's (Ultra by Antec, I suppose.) Antec shot down the idea saying it would never take off. I suppose they had a change of heart shortly their after because Antec came out with the NeoPower modular power supply the same year the X-Connect was introduced.
...
---> history of Ultra PSUs <---

Wow, that was an interesting read... and I think I'm the only one that read it.

Makes ya wonder about Antec... did they "borrow" the idea? Who came out with modular PSUs first anyways?
 

tomoyo

Senior member
Oct 5, 2005
418
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Oh I read the entire message also, very interesting psu history there. Makes me wonder how ultra dropped the ball. If they had become as focused as corsair, they could have taken the psu market first in the mid to high end ranges. Now it's a pretty varied fight between enough brands out there. In a way I'm glad there's so much competition now, this causes the good makers to get better. BFG joining the mix should just make things more interesting.
 

jonnyGURU

Moderator <BR> Power Supplies
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Oct 30, 1999
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Originally posted by: Zap
Wow, that was an interesting read... and I think I'm the only one that read it.

Makes ya wonder about Antec... did they "borrow" the idea? Who came out with modular PSUs first anyways?

Technically, Hank over at Performance-PC's was the first. But because his "modular" PSU is techincally a PSU with really short cables that you extend, it really can't be patented. Ultra came out with the first PSU with a modular interface on the housing of the unit, and they patented it.

Originally posted by: tomoyo
Oh I read the entire message also, very interesting psu history there. Makes me wonder how ultra dropped the ball. If they had become as focused as corsair, they could have taken the psu market first in the mid to high end ranges. Now it's a pretty varied fight between enough brands out there. In a way I'm glad there's so much competition now, this causes the good makers to get better. BFG joining the mix should just make things more interesting.

There's so much more than just making the right product and putting it out there for consumption. Corsair had good timing and good people. And the fact that they hadn't done PSU's in the past actually helped them.

Ultra was limited by budget and distribution channels; how much they could buy and how much they could warehouse. You also have retail channels that actually "ask" for product. Furthermore, you have "perceived value." Corsair is known for high end RAM, so high end power supplies isn't much of a stretch. Call me bias, but I really do think the X3 600W stacks up against the Corsair. If only the sell price was a bit less than it is. My dad taught me early on that the "sell more with less margin is better than sell few with high margin" works better for everyone. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people that like to see the initial big rush of money and can't see three months down the road... and I'm NOT just talking about Ultra. :(

 

tomoyo

Senior member
Oct 5, 2005
418
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Originally posted by: jonnyGURU

There's so much more than just making the right product and putting it out there for consumption. Corsair had good timing and good people. And the fact that they hadn't done PSU's in the past actually helped them.

Ultra was limited by budget and distribution channels; how much they could buy and how much they could warehouse. You also have retail channels that actually "ask" for product. Furthermore, you have "perceived value." Corsair is known for high end RAM, so high end power supplies isn't much of a stretch. Call me bias, but I really do think the X3 600W stacks up against the Corsair. If only the sell price was a bit less than it is. My dad taught me early on that the "sell more with less margin is better than sell few with high margin" works better for everyone. Unfortunately, there's a lot of people that like to see the initial big rush of money and can't see three months down the road... and I'm NOT just talking about Ultra. :(

Perception does seem very key in a lot of regards for computing purchases Especially for things that are very hard to measure such as power supplies, hard drives, full systems, etc. It's pretty simple to measure how good a processor is by just checking benchmarks and power consumption, it's a lot harder to say how a power supply is better. There's obviously a lot better information than even 2 years ago, but even this forum has tons of people who do not pay attention. Your X3 mention reminded me that it's actually a bit cheaper than the HX620 and would definitely be a nice choice as well. It makes me wonder how the noise signature compares, a 135mm fan should be a good thing.

I do veer toward silence myself though, so unless I know a psu is going to be pretty quiet along with stable, it's hard for me to push it, corsair had the killer combination of being near silent and pretty reliable. Plus a ton of positive reviews and forum posts in a short period of time that made it into something people wanted. I'd figure bfg needs to make a similar splash of marketing and product to really make people pay attention.